See bottom for cliff notes in bold

So after buying my Z 2 months ago I noticed that while it brakes pretty well around town, at triple digit speeds the brakes would glaze pretty quickly and would therefore not brake the best. (Response from 120-0 was pretty good from 120-60 but not 60-0 due to glazing.) Once the rotors got hot, there was also mild pulsing in the pedal. There was also a fair amount of noise from the rear brakes which I thought might indicate the need for new rear pads.

This all told me I wanted new pads (figured the dealer had done an el cheapo brake job with cheap pads and turning slightly warped rotors) and new rotors.

I never really messed with performance brakes except for on sportbikes before, but I didn't really want to go to extreme. Common sense told me that the tires loosing grip means a lack of rotor surface area / and or weak calipers is no the weak point in a Z's braking capacity.

Since there was little research on the topic, and they are cheap, and they come with LLT, and I wanted to try a Ceramic pad after seeing semimetalic pads chew through rotors like no tomorrow, I figured I would take a crack at an Autozone brake job. Rotors have 2 yr warranty.

Rotors were 72.99/ 54.99 rear/front each. Pads were ?? but you can look it up online.

At the same time I flushed and refilled brake fluid with valvoline synthetic (?? don't know or care if synthetic helps in brake fluid with no sheer forces) DOT 4 fluid. But I didn't do SS brake lines at the same time.

Bedded in the brake pads and drove in city traffic for a couple of days and last night decided to go test them.

Did 6-7 hard stops (not panic to instantly engage ABS, rather progressive hard braking like you would do diving into a turn at a track) from 40-55 mph. Car no longer pulses, even after up to temp, stops really quickly, straight, and with no noise.

Couldn't get the brakes to heat soak or anything so I stepped it up to stops from 90-110mph. After 2-3 stops you could definitely smell the brakes and that they were hot. After 4-5 there was definite heat soak starting as the effectiveness of the brakes started to be less with some smoke coming off of the rotors.

Upon stop 5 or 6 there started to be reduced pedal feel (i.e. mushy until last 1/3 of pedal). I stopped because I didn't want to glaze the pads and I was pretty impressed. The brakes stunk and pretty copious amounts of smoke was coming off of the rotors, but I thought 6 maximum effort stops from 100+ with no performance hit on the first 3 and maybe 40% hit on the last one was pretty good.

The old pads you felt glaze start on the very first stop. I don't know how good hawks pads are but could they take that many stops right after another? Its not like I was driving for 5 minutes between attempts so the brakes had no chance to cool down at all.

The only curiousity I had was the smoke. Never seen large amounts of smoke come off of tires like that but I don't race my cars. I believe that the smoke was likely from the grease that I put on the back of the pads cooking off under the heat.

So in summary:

I'm a cheap *** and bought Autozone CMAX ceramic pads and rotors and changed my fluid with DOT4 synthetic fluid.

Bedded in the brakes for a couple days and then tested

No more pulse, no more glazing upon braking at triple digit speeds.

CMAX pads took 5-6 successive 110+ stops before starting to heat soak/glaze.

After 4 stops brakes started smoking but I'm pretty sure that it was just the antisquel grease as no fluid leaks, and fluid didn't boil.

So thumbs up for cheaper CMAX pads.

I would be interested if someone could compare hawks pads. Would sloted rotors and hawks pads lasted 20 stops before getting the heat soak??

There was a fair amount of dust from the pads after that hard of braking so these are not perfectly clean pads but better then the old ones. But for the price I was pretty impressed. Unless I was tracking the car I can't justify the hawk pads and slotted rotors. And if I did want to track the car I would have to hear from someone who did a similiar test with that setup that had signfiicantly better results.

 

Soooo...you're saying that these pads are good at these speeds after a couple stops from ridiculously high speeds? I'm sorry but I just fail to see the point that you are trying to make.

You don't track the car, and these "tests" really have nothing to do what track conditions are like. I would say I am braking hard continuously and never hitting 100+, more like 80 and below.

So here are my "cliff" notes.

You made up some goofy tests on the freeway or something to make yourself feel better about your purchase.

You've never even been a spectator at a track or autocross event.

This thread is pointless.

 

Thanks for your f'in pointless response. Here is the point you f'tard. There was no one who had tried a cheap alternative pad. I had the cash to blow and I'm curious so rather then post retarded reactions to others' posts I actually went out and tried something.

Cliff notes:

CMAX pads get the job done on the street, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to someone who drives on the street.

Way too many retards who think you HAVE to have Hawk this, or stoptech that, or brembo this. Way too many retards who think saving a dime is automatically wrong i.e. comments like I would never put autozone crap on my sportscar yada yada.

I'm happy with the pads and non-drilled or slotted rotors: but I did qualify my statement in the fact that this is my first performance car, and can not compare my experience with performance motorcycles.

Thanks for your contribution, now STFU!

 

2 words TRAIN WRECK

 

Lol, sorry I was grumpy and tired of stupid unproductive comments.

I mean seriously I searched and found no first hand experiences. So I did it myself and posted a thread so that maybe someone else doing the same search would have something to compare to.

If you've had hawks + drilled/slotted and CMAX + stock rotors then post up a comparison. Or if you can tell me how your super pimp BBK kit can take driving on the track all day with no fade no matter how hard you get on the brakes, feel free.......

Stupid bashing comments feel free to STFU.

***

On a slightly more serious note, Ruthless said my 'tests' have nothing to do with a track. As I said my only experience racing has been on bikes. I don't know how different cars are to sportbikes but I can tell you when I'm racing a bike I'm not constantly on the brakes I'm basically doing 20-100~120 pulls and then slowing down as quickly as possible for the next turn (top speed varies anything from 60~160 depending on the distance between turns). I.e. I'm braking maybe 25-30% of the time. The times that I have run up against cars like corvettes I don't recall them being on the brakes the majority of the time....

I thought finding a long stretch of rural road to do a series of 0-60-0 and 0-100-0 runs was a decent comparison without the turns, the expense of track time (wasted on informal brake testing) and without letting the brakes cool down between braking.

So if my method of trying to get a gut comparison between two sets of pads on similar rotors (with different amounts of wear new vs used) is complete bullsh*t then post up a better method of comparison. I'm completely open to intelligent debate. Otherwise STFU.

In direct response to his other comments

WTF does being a spectator have to do with comparing two brake setups. A ****ing idiot or a 5 year old kid could compare the difference in braking between my jeep and my z. A professional driver might have a more insightful valid comparison, but that isn't to say your response isn't a piece of sh*t.

As far as making myself feel good about my purchase: see my point about having the money to blow. If the brakes sucked as bad as the ones I replaced I would have just sucked it up and bought a set of slotted rotors and hawks. Hell the old pads I pulled off were not even half worn, and with the number of toys I have I don't think a $500 brake job is an issue.... Nothing like dismissing someone else's experience because it doesn't match your own... Great job buddy! Betcha you feel all warm and fuzzy.

So more cliff notes:

F' stupid comments, F' stupid comments, somewhat more serious response, F' stupid comments sarcasm

Oh and Terra I like your quote...screaming obscenities IS good therapy, at least in a medium that doesn't matter.

 

CLIFF NOTES:

keep it up with the name calling and slander and i'll ban you.

 

That's perfectly fine.....

To be blunt I'm not that impressed. The other forums I've been on the past have been far more welcoming and knowledgable.

So ban away if you really feel I'm that far out of line for saying f'tard.

 

In all fairness, the OP did not fire the first shot. His post was an honest attempt to give us useful info. It was relevant, given the fact that this forum has a tendency to give everyone the impression that if you don't have a 3K BBK and a 4K set of wheels, you're not worthy.

If you think that a thread is worthless - move on. Lord knows I do it enough around here. LOL.

 

Thank you for seeing what the OP really was. Just a genuine effort to put info out there that I couldn't find otherwise, good bad or otherwise I would love to experience what a 3k BBK and 4k set of wheels is like, but the closest I've come is a full ohlins suspension on a bike.

 

You have that backwards


Its not really heat soak , its called overheating the pads ie , bringing them above there effective operating range. The first time you did a 120 to 0 stop, they were glazed. Last, during the first stop from 120 you can actually feel the brakes getting hotter, and not being as effective. Once you drive a BBK car, you will know this.

Slotted rotors do nothing for you other than looks and cracks if you heat them to much. Hawk pads, will work better, but once they hit the point of being overheated you back in the same boat. Yes you will overheat your stock brakes fast(non brembo cars)


I tracked on the stock 03 brakes with cheap pads for my first 2 days (good for one day of learning) had to change pads both days. Next i tried EBC reds, great pad worked a little better and i recomend them to canyon drivers. Next i went to yellows, another step up, i could actually do one lap without fade issues( my driving was also improving a lot during all of this, the faster your exit speeds, the faster you are on the straights, the more you have to brake) EBC Yellows would end the 03 brake fun.

Now i moved over to 06 brakes, bigger rotors, 2 piston fronts. Went with EBC yellows again and could actually get 2 days out of them, had fade issues near the middle of the session, and improved stopping for comming off the freeway 85mph to 0, but yes with normal (autozone) pads they would fade from that speed.

Now i run a full wilwood BBK, no issues street driving (havn't really run canyons hard with them, and run seperate race pads for the track. The rotors only see about 650 degrees right now compaired to 900 on the 2 stock setups, and i have plenty of room for the added braking i will get with R compounds.

Better??

 

Cool. Good info. So, for me, as only street driver on 2006 stock brakes, you'd recommend the EBC yellows? What kind of brake lines are you running? I'll need to replace my brakes soon...so, taking notes here.

 

nice blanket statement since hawk makes pads for different applications, just like ebc, carbotech, etc. hps, hp+, blacks, blue etc

i personally would recommend carbotech pads... good company and the brake dust is non-corrosive unlike hawk's higher temp pads. i have XP8's on my miata and when they're warmed up they'll lock my street tires. they're just right with r compounds.

Compound Usage Temp Range Friction Coefficent (mu)
1521 Street use ambient - 800F .45 to .47
AX6 autocross - HP street 150 - 1200F .49 to .50
XP8 autocross, HPDE track day 200 - 1350F .55 to .56
XP10 track day - road race 250- 1650F .59 to .60
XP12 track day - roadrace 250 -1950F .64 to .65

edit: i guess it removes the extra spaces i put in to line up the info above. ah well you get the idea.

 

I ran braided lines, for street, just run the elcheepo pads or EBC green, if you run canyons ALL the time, Yellows are fine for you.

 

does replying with name calling really prove anything or offer anything beneficial to the post? or throwing obsenities in comments? does saying STFU make you feel better?

i respect your review and the time you took to write it up, but have a thicker skin on the replies..

 

Yes that is better Terra. I was referring to, if you're tires are breaking loose, then obviously your pads are strong enough and your tires are the limiting factor in your braking.

In my experience there are primarily three factors in braking: size of rotors (great mass allows better heat transfer away from pads + plus more gripping area), composition of pad (tradeoff between pads that chew the crap out of rotors and pads that don't physically grip as well), and operating temperature (pads that are designed for limited extreme braking i.e. once in a panic situation and those that are designed for repetitive exposure in a track environment).

My primary point in the original post is that these pads brake more then sufficient to lock up the tires and do not begin to glaze/heat soak/ rise above ideal operating temperature until after 4-6 "extreme" braking and didn't glaze at all in repetitive apprx 60 mph braking situations.

In my book that is more then sufficient for a daily driver. If you need brakes that last more then that on the street, your license is likely in jeopardy, and these pads were fair superior then el cheapo $20 pads.

So I'm not saying I don't see the benefit of BBK. I can certainly appreciate the engineering and their superior performance. But that performance is unneccessary when I do a $400 brake job (instead of 3k) and flog it for 10-20 minutes with great performance. Unless I decide to start an interstate highway pursuit I just don't need anything better and until I upgrade to a 275/255 rear/front tire setup my tires don't justify any better braking. When I do get that setup obviously my opinion may change.

 

I have installed the CMAX pads onmy wife's Lincoln Aviator and have been impressed. they braking feels stronger than the stock ford pads, but she definately gets a good amount of brake dust (stock pads did the same though.) they are very quiet and seem like a good pad.....plus LIFETIME WARRANTY! she is very happy and has not made one complaint.

Before I pruchased these pads, I searched the internet for reviews. I found that some evo guys are using them in their brembos and have had great results.

IN my G35, I have been running PRoject Mu B-Force pads, and have been thoroughly unimpressed. They are definately a step down from the stop pads. no noise issues, just less aggressive than the stock nissan pads.

I am thinking of trying the cmax pads on the G in the coming days. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

interesting post on the cmax pads. just wanted to let you know that the cmax pads come with a patented multi-layer nitrile rubber shim already attatched to the back of the pad that absorbs the brake noise and squealing. there is no need for further anti squeal treatments. additionally, the anti squeal "grease" you are referring to..the stuff that was smoking and burning off...is in fact not intended for the back of the brake pad. there is anti squeal..that is similar to rtv silicone which turns to a rubberized compound when it sets, then there is brake grease that you apply to the caliper pins and any sliding contact point to keep your caliper from seizing up and limiting your braking to one of the two pads, usually the one installed on the piston side of the caliper, since the other pad will not be able to engage the rotor due to the seized caliper slide. there seems to be alot of confusion about this. i even have customers returning their greasy backed brake pads complaining about the chattering, asking why the grease isn't working. there is no such thing as anti squeal grease -- there is anti squeal and there is brake grease.

 

I also run cheapo pads on the street. But have race pads for the tracks ...I didnt find it necessary to spend the big bucks on street pads when I switch to race pads for events.

 

perfectly worded and all so true

 

+1 to everything in this response.

There are far to many "experts" around here eager to pass off idea regurgitation as original thought.