clear bra myths
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From: Massachusetts
The post that opened this thread was generally quite good - but point 4 is DEAD WRONG. I recently bought a black PT Cruiser and I drive it 120 mile per day commuting back and forth to work. In the first three weeks I piled up about 15 chips that stood out like sore thumbs as the primer under the paint on the PT is a light grey that is almost white. I have never accumulated so many chips so quickly on a car in my life and I've owned 2 other black cars.
After getting them touched up I had the 3M film installed on the nose and in the following 3 months I have not had a single chip.
I'm sold on this stuff and it WILL be on my Z.
joe
After getting them touched up I had the 3M film installed on the nose and in the following 3 months I have not had a single chip.
I'm sold on this stuff and it WILL be on my Z.
joe
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From: atlanta
Originally posted by Dean
Seeing is believing, Mike.
According to 3M's corporate web site, the widest available roll is 24". Of course, the paint film gurus like you may have access to the "unobtainable."
http://products.mmm.com/us/auto_mari...gvPKD7VS0CHGgl
Another "confimatory" link:
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediaw...SSSTFabV6666q-
Again, my point is that you implied that Stongard is limited to the 24" wide film. Show me a stock X-pel template that's greater than 24" wide and I'll gladly shut up.
Dean
Seeing is believing, Mike.
According to 3M's corporate web site, the widest available roll is 24". Of course, the paint film gurus like you may have access to the "unobtainable."
http://products.mmm.com/us/auto_mari...gvPKD7VS0CHGgl
Another "confimatory" link:
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediaw...SSSTFabV6666q-
Again, my point is that you implied that Stongard is limited to the 24" wide film. Show me a stock X-pel template that's greater than 24" wide and I'll gladly shut up.
Dean
Remember, I sell Xpel and StonGard too. They are both fine products. I try to be as unbiased as possible. Of course my baby is prettier.
48" is not unobtainable, but it is big $$. 30 mil genuine 3M scotchcal is only available through DynaShield!
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From: atlanta
Originally posted by Sanderman
The post that opened this thread was generally quite good - but point 4 is DEAD WRONG. joe
The post that opened this thread was generally quite good - but point 4 is DEAD WRONG. joe
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From: atlanta
Re: 3M Installer in St. Louis
Originally posted by BacktotheZ
Mike, can you recommend an installer in St. Louis?
Thanks,
Barry
Mike, can you recommend an installer in St. Louis?
Thanks,
Barry
there must be other installers reading this. Can anyone help with St. Louis?
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From: ATL/Auburn U.
Originally posted by Sanderman
The post that opened this thread was generally quite good - but point 4 is DEAD WRONG. I recently bought a black PT Cruiser and I drive it 120 mile per day commuting back and forth to work. In the first three weeks I piled up about 15 chips that stood out like sore thumbs as the primer under the paint on the PT is a light grey that is almost white. I have never accumulated so many chips so quickly on a car in my life and I've owned 2 other black cars.
After getting them touched up I had the 3M film installed on the nose and in the following 3 months I have not had a single chip.
I'm sold on this stuff and it WILL be on my Z.
joe
The post that opened this thread was generally quite good - but point 4 is DEAD WRONG. I recently bought a black PT Cruiser and I drive it 120 mile per day commuting back and forth to work. In the first three weeks I piled up about 15 chips that stood out like sore thumbs as the primer under the paint on the PT is a light grey that is almost white. I have never accumulated so many chips so quickly on a car in my life and I've owned 2 other black cars.
After getting them touched up I had the 3M film installed on the nose and in the following 3 months I have not had a single chip.
I'm sold on this stuff and it WILL be on my Z.
joe
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From: Massachusetts
I think you miss interpreted his post.. he is saying that paint is progressivly getting worse at chiping..... the first statment after each is the false information that is being spread that he is replying to....
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From: ATL/Auburn U.
Originally posted by Sanderman
Oops! My mistake. Now I'll probably lose some of what few precious points I've got ...
Oops! My mistake. Now I'll probably lose some of what few precious points I've got ...
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From: Carolina
mike,
Since you started this thread as "clear bra myths" and MISINFORMATION (your emphasis) let's "clear up" a mis-statement you made about Stongard:
"StonGard does some very good kits. They will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have."
Again, this is very misleading and unfair to Stongard, who have yet to release their 350Z kit. You imply that they have a 24" width limitation. Untrue. All the major companies I know about are limited to 24" film. Although you have access to 3M film wider than 24", that is not the industry standard for pre-cut patterns. Here is a pic of my uninstalled Xpel hood piece for my 350Z...
A bit less than 24"?
The Xpel headlight film:
By the way, I'm not a professional installer. I'm just a guy with too many cars and not enough garage space.
Since you started this thread as "clear bra myths" and MISINFORMATION (your emphasis) let's "clear up" a mis-statement you made about Stongard:
"StonGard does some very good kits. They will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have."
Again, this is very misleading and unfair to Stongard, who have yet to release their 350Z kit. You imply that they have a 24" width limitation. Untrue. All the major companies I know about are limited to 24" film. Although you have access to 3M film wider than 24", that is not the industry standard for pre-cut patterns. Here is a pic of my uninstalled Xpel hood piece for my 350Z...
A bit less than 24"?
The Xpel headlight film:
By the way, I'm not a professional installer. I'm just a guy with too many cars and not enough garage space.
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From: atlanta
Originally posted by Dean
mike,
"StonGard does some very good kits. They will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have."
Again, this is very misleading and unfair to Stongard, who have yet to release their 350Z kit. You imply that they have a 24" width limitation. Untrue. All the major companies I know about are limited to 24" film. Although you have access to 3M film wider than 24", that is not the industry standard for pre-cut patterns. Here is a pic of my uninstalled Xpel hood piece for my 350Z...
mike,
"StonGard does some very good kits. They will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have."
Again, this is very misleading and unfair to Stongard, who have yet to release their 350Z kit. You imply that they have a 24" width limitation. Untrue. All the major companies I know about are limited to 24" film. Although you have access to 3M film wider than 24", that is not the industry standard for pre-cut patterns. Here is a pic of my uninstalled Xpel hood piece for my 350Z...
Any company could use 48" material if they chose to invest in the equipment. I did not mean to be unfair to StonGard and I do not believe I was. When I said they would have trouble, I do not mean a low quality product, I mean design difficulties. StonGard prides themselves in providing more protection than Xpel. They also wrap the leading edge of the hood on almost all kits. As you see, there isn't much room left on your 24" film. StonGard will have problems beating Xpel on this one because Xpell uses the whole 24". You never know, StonGard might decide to go to 48" film just to beat Xpel.
The only reason 24" is the industry standard is that up until about four months ago that's all that was available.
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From: Carolina
Read your statement again, Mike.
"They (Stongard) will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have."
Point #1: It isn't only Stongard that has a 24" limitation. The Xpel hood piece is also limited to <24".
Point #2: Why would you imply that Stongard "will have some problems on the 350Z," if the Xpel 24" film fits well? As you stated before, Stongard is a quality company. My Subaru WRX kit is testiment to that. I won't pre-judge the quality of their 350Z kit.
Point #3: Stongard's fitting philosophy is different than Xpel. You know that. Stongard allows for about a 1/3" overlap around the leading edge of the hood. That overlap is insignificant to the total body surface area covered by the hood film. (i.e the trailing border may be 1/2" farther forward than Xpel). What do you mean by "there isn't much room left on a 24" film"??????
Dean
"They (Stongard) will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have."
Point #1: It isn't only Stongard that has a 24" limitation. The Xpel hood piece is also limited to <24".
Point #2: Why would you imply that Stongard "will have some problems on the 350Z," if the Xpel 24" film fits well? As you stated before, Stongard is a quality company. My Subaru WRX kit is testiment to that. I won't pre-judge the quality of their 350Z kit.
Point #3: Stongard's fitting philosophy is different than Xpel. You know that. Stongard allows for about a 1/3" overlap around the leading edge of the hood. That overlap is insignificant to the total body surface area covered by the hood film. (i.e the trailing border may be 1/2" farther forward than Xpel). What do you mean by "there isn't much room left on a 24" film"??????
Dean
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From: San Fran
The other big reason you will not see 48" precut pieces is that most dealers dont have 48" plotters to cut them with. So even if the various precut kit designers designed larger kits, many of their dealers would not be able to manufacture them. But lets not get into the mindset of "if some is good, alot is better" somebody on the forum asked me,"if your stuff works so well, why not just cover the whole car in it?" Dont confuse more coverage with more protection. The point of our kits is not to wrap your entire car in a protective bubble, its to provide effective, reliable, protection to the frontal impact area of your vehicle where the majority of damage from road debris occurs, while keeping material and installation costs reasonable. Our hood piece on the 350Z goes up a full 23 1/2" from the front edge of the hood, this is the largest coverage of any hood kit we offer. I realize some people are just not going to be happy unless they have a piece going further up the hood past the frontal impact area, but you will quickly come to a point of diminishing returns as far as adding more actual protection. Go out to a parking lot right now and start looking at the fronts of cars that have been on the road a couple years and see for your self the areas that take the most damage, I think you will see the VAST majority of chips and scratches occurs in the area our kits are designed to protect.
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From: Carolina
Jeremy,
As you can see I received that headlight film today. MANY THANKS for your great service and I greatly appreciate your effort to get the Xpel kits out to us few self-installers. Wish me luck. I only wish that a pro like you was available in BFE Carolina!
Dean
As you can see I received that headlight film today. MANY THANKS for your great service and I greatly appreciate your effort to get the Xpel kits out to us few self-installers. Wish me luck. I only wish that a pro like you was available in BFE Carolina!
Dean
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From: San Fran
well after I saw those two other kits you put on yourself I think your pretty talented. Maybe you might think about installing PPF for a living 
lol. anyhow, give me a call if you need help with anything, thanks!
lol. anyhow, give me a call if you need help with anything, thanks!
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From: Atlanta
Originally posted by Dean
Read your statement again, Mike.
"They (Stongard) will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have."
Point #1: It isn't only Stongard that has a 24" limitation. The Xpel hood piece is also limited to <24".
Point #2: Why would you imply that Stongard "will have some problems on the 350Z," if the Xpel 24" film fits well? As you stated before, Stongard is a quality company. My Subaru WRX kit is testiment to that. I won't pre-judge the quality of their 350Z kit.
Point #3: Stongard's fitting philosophy is different than Xpel. You know that. Stongard allows for about a 1/3" overlap around the leading edge of the hood. That overlap is insignificant to the total body surface area covered by the hood film. (i.e the trailing border may be 1/2" farther forward than Xpel). What do you mean by "there isn't much room left on a 24" film"??????
Dean
Read your statement again, Mike.
"They (Stongard) will have some problems with the hood on the 350Z due to the 24" width limitation they have."
Point #1: It isn't only Stongard that has a 24" limitation. The Xpel hood piece is also limited to <24".
Point #2: Why would you imply that Stongard "will have some problems on the 350Z," if the Xpel 24" film fits well? As you stated before, Stongard is a quality company. My Subaru WRX kit is testiment to that. I won't pre-judge the quality of their 350Z kit.
Point #3: Stongard's fitting philosophy is different than Xpel. You know that. Stongard allows for about a 1/3" overlap around the leading edge of the hood. That overlap is insignificant to the total body surface area covered by the hood film. (i.e the trailing border may be 1/2" farther forward than Xpel). What do you mean by "there isn't much room left on a 24" film"??????
Dean
He already mentioned that XPEL has a 24'' limitation too:
Mike says:
//BEGIN QUOTE
Xpel clearbra.com is a company that designs and manufactures paint protection film kits. They use both 3M and avery films. They offer a kit that is designed to provide the most protection at an afordable cost. Their kits are very well designed given the limitations they have placed on design (24" wide material and no edge wrapping). Thier kits tend to be the ones installed at car dealers and on lower priced cars.
//END QUOTE
He also already covered point two because he mentioned that the fact that Stoneguard wraps the leading edge of the hood, they will lose some of the 24'' for the purpose of wrapping. Since XPEL does not wrap, they will likely have more hood coverage.
Point 3 is the same as point 2. It might not be a significant difference as far as protection goes, but I don't think it's being unfair for Mike to say that XPEL will have hood coverage going further back than Stoneguard.
BTW, Krinkov, I got my headlight covers in today. Thanks for doing business with me...will probably be scheduling with Mike for the XPEL install. Just have to get my nasty paint chip patched first...
--
Jeff
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From: atlanta
Guys!
I am not beating up on StonGard or Xpel. I will repeat they are both quality kits. I also have StonGard on my WRX. I just said StonGard will have a tough time beating Xpel on the hood. I hope they do it, competition is good. I also agree that more is not necessarily better. The Dynashield hood only goes 3/4" farther back than Xpell, and wraps the front. I went farther back primarily to get better looks and fender coverage. IMO, the straight cut at the back of the Xpel hood looks bad, as does the two piece fender. The DynaShield hood piece is only 25.5" tall. On the aft edge, It actually covers a little less than Xpell due to the curve .
Limiting oneself to 24" capability is a business decision. We used to have no chioce. I wouldn't count on ANY major manufacturer staying with 24" forever. I know some Xpel installers are already buying equipment in preparation for the 48" future. There are a lot of good reasons to go to 48", such as more capability and less scrap waste.
Why is discussing differences considered negative? It is up to the consumer to decide what product is for them. Discussing differences only serves to educate them. In the end, an educated consumer is good for business.
I am not beating up on StonGard or Xpel. I will repeat they are both quality kits. I also have StonGard on my WRX. I just said StonGard will have a tough time beating Xpel on the hood. I hope they do it, competition is good. I also agree that more is not necessarily better. The Dynashield hood only goes 3/4" farther back than Xpell, and wraps the front. I went farther back primarily to get better looks and fender coverage. IMO, the straight cut at the back of the Xpel hood looks bad, as does the two piece fender. The DynaShield hood piece is only 25.5" tall. On the aft edge, It actually covers a little less than Xpell due to the curve .
Limiting oneself to 24" capability is a business decision. We used to have no chioce. I wouldn't count on ANY major manufacturer staying with 24" forever. I know some Xpel installers are already buying equipment in preparation for the 48" future. There are a lot of good reasons to go to 48", such as more capability and less scrap waste.
Why is discussing differences considered negative? It is up to the consumer to decide what product is for them. Discussing differences only serves to educate them. In the end, an educated consumer is good for business.
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From: atlanta
Originally posted by krinkov
I realize some people are just not going to be happy unless they have a piece going further up the hood past the frontal impact area, but you will quickly come to a point of diminishing returns as far as adding more actual protection. Go out to a parking lot right now and start looking at the fronts of cars that have been on the road a couple years and see for your self the areas that take the most damage, I think you will see the VAST majority of chips and scratches occurs in the area our kits are designed to protect.
I realize some people are just not going to be happy unless they have a piece going further up the hood past the frontal impact area, but you will quickly come to a point of diminishing returns as far as adding more actual protection. Go out to a parking lot right now and start looking at the fronts of cars that have been on the road a couple years and see for your self the areas that take the most damage, I think you will see the VAST majority of chips and scratches occurs in the area our kits are designed to protect.
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My 3M Rep asked me about 10 mos ago, as 3M was doin a survey to find out which width we as professionals would prefer, my vote was for 36", he did inform me later that most others had said 48", which is cool by me.
I've said time and time again this is a growth industry, and the talented, honest customer driven installer/business person will adapt and overcome. I'm not saying give into market demands, but help mold them into a good solid business program.
In reference to the confusion on paint softness, the EPA mandated that factories reduce emissions, they found out the easiest way to do this was through the use of water-based paints, this alone reduced emissions by over 30% putting most factory's right within the guidelines.
As I had stated, Ive seen this industry come from people asking "Why would I put on something I cant see?" to the discussion we have here on this thread. I've been reading but I wasnt going to jump in, as there were no misstatements so far, just differences in design and installation technique's. Just as the good people that use this site have the ability to use the film/installer of their choice.We as business people and installers have the right to use or not use the company that we purchase/or make our own designs. Personally,IMHO I dont wrap edges, Ive seen it done, I've had the other companies ask me to sell/install their kits. Ive always seen wrapped edges tend to peel.AGAIN thats my opinion. Ive seen people question the cost of this since its inception, dollar for dollar, youll find nothing that is a better, more practical paint protection in the country. Who you chosse to install and buy from is a personal choice. Just search them out and do your research. We DO live in the land of the free, choices are what makes us unique...Rob
I've said time and time again this is a growth industry, and the talented, honest customer driven installer/business person will adapt and overcome. I'm not saying give into market demands, but help mold them into a good solid business program.
In reference to the confusion on paint softness, the EPA mandated that factories reduce emissions, they found out the easiest way to do this was through the use of water-based paints, this alone reduced emissions by over 30% putting most factory's right within the guidelines.
As I had stated, Ive seen this industry come from people asking "Why would I put on something I cant see?" to the discussion we have here on this thread. I've been reading but I wasnt going to jump in, as there were no misstatements so far, just differences in design and installation technique's. Just as the good people that use this site have the ability to use the film/installer of their choice.We as business people and installers have the right to use or not use the company that we purchase/or make our own designs. Personally,IMHO I dont wrap edges, Ive seen it done, I've had the other companies ask me to sell/install their kits. Ive always seen wrapped edges tend to peel.AGAIN thats my opinion. Ive seen people question the cost of this since its inception, dollar for dollar, youll find nothing that is a better, more practical paint protection in the country. Who you chosse to install and buy from is a personal choice. Just search them out and do your research. We DO live in the land of the free, choices are what makes us unique...Rob
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From: atlanta
Proform,
Thanks for jumping in. People need opinions from more than just me. I have seen debates get out of hand on the whole wrap thing. To eliminate any problems of peeling, we spend an average of about four hours prepping the car for a wrap as opposed to about twenty minutes for non-wrap. 3M will stay down (garunteed) with proper prep. I don't think there is any hope for avery.
Thanks for jumping in. People need opinions from more than just me. I have seen debates get out of hand on the whole wrap thing. To eliminate any problems of peeling, we spend an average of about four hours prepping the car for a wrap as opposed to about twenty minutes for non-wrap. 3M will stay down (garunteed) with proper prep. I don't think there is any hope for avery.
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From: Chicago, IL
Will the headlight shields affect headlight performance at all? (especially if the film yellows from things like heat, etc.) Will the film melt or yellow from the heat of the xenon lights? This stuff just occured to me now, so please be patient...