i want to rev to 8000rpm
For those that don't know, the powerband range is not going to change unless you significantly alter the cams or the intake manifold. Adding things like plenums, ECU upgrades, pullies, test pipes, etc have no effect on the powerband range. All these mods do is elevate the powerband, but the general trend stays the same. That is if your stock VQ makes 220whp@~6200rpms, then it's going to make 230whp@~6200rpms with the plenum. The goal to ideal acceleration is to shift 200-500rpms past peak power, depending gear ratios.
Originally Posted by Dave B
Too many guys have Honda on the brain. Revving to high rpms doesn't necessarily constitute more power. If that was the case, then the 350-500hp LS series V8s from GM would rev to 8000rpms+ and not the 6500-7000rpms it's limited too.
The VQ35 in the 03/04 G/Z is not a high rev motor. Instead, it's a rather large displacement V6 capable of decent RPMs and has a very linear and fat powerband WHICH IS WHAT YOU WANT!! The VQ35's powerband is from ~4800rpms to 6500rpms with over 95% of it's torque available by 2500rpms. That's impressive. Revving a VQ35 past 7000rpms is unnecessary. It will make you slower and you'll risk engine failure. The goal to a strong accelerating car is to stay in a linear and fat powerband If you rev too high, you fall out of the powerband therefore you're slower. Overshooting the powerband is just as bad as undershooting the powerband (ie short shifting).
The VQ35 was never designed to be a high rev motor. Have you guys seen the lengths Nissan went just to extract an extra 400rpms in the 300hp 05 motor? The block, rods, and valvetrain were redesigned so that reliability would not be compromised by just that extra 400rpm of rev (7000rpm limiter). Now think about that for a moment. Are you guys really certain a 03/04 VQ35 with the 6600rpm limiter would be happy living life above 7000rpms? I sure as heck don't. My last car (96 Maxima) had the VQ30 and I had a JWT ECU which raised the limiter from 6500rpms to 7000rpms. Even 7200rpms most likely would have been safe. Why? The VQ30 has a much lower piston speed than the VQ35. The VQ35 has .5" longer rods. The VQ30 already had weak rods and the VQ35's rod are .5" longer and are MUCH weaker. That's the very reason the VQ35 is a poor motor SC or turbo. It's also the reason Nissan is using a slightly bored out VQ30 instead using the deep stroked VQ35 in their Z racecars and in the upcoming GT-R. Nissan realized the VQ35 isn't up to the task of boost.
In order to be able to rev a VQ35 to 8,000rpms and make power to 7500-800rpms, you will need to do the following:
1) New rods and hardware
2) The 05 300hp block and valve train
3) Different cams designed to push the powerband from 4800-6500rpms to 5500rpms-7500rpms or so. This is critical for power production.
4) Upgraded oil pump to handle the stress of 8000rpms
5) Revised upper and lower intake manifold designed to increase airflow at 5500-7500rpms.
In the end, you'll have a VQ35 that's a complete dog below 5000rpms and then comes to life with frenzy of power.
The VQ35 in the 03/04 G/Z is not a high rev motor. Instead, it's a rather large displacement V6 capable of decent RPMs and has a very linear and fat powerband WHICH IS WHAT YOU WANT!! The VQ35's powerband is from ~4800rpms to 6500rpms with over 95% of it's torque available by 2500rpms. That's impressive. Revving a VQ35 past 7000rpms is unnecessary. It will make you slower and you'll risk engine failure. The goal to a strong accelerating car is to stay in a linear and fat powerband If you rev too high, you fall out of the powerband therefore you're slower. Overshooting the powerband is just as bad as undershooting the powerband (ie short shifting).
The VQ35 was never designed to be a high rev motor. Have you guys seen the lengths Nissan went just to extract an extra 400rpms in the 300hp 05 motor? The block, rods, and valvetrain were redesigned so that reliability would not be compromised by just that extra 400rpm of rev (7000rpm limiter). Now think about that for a moment. Are you guys really certain a 03/04 VQ35 with the 6600rpm limiter would be happy living life above 7000rpms? I sure as heck don't. My last car (96 Maxima) had the VQ30 and I had a JWT ECU which raised the limiter from 6500rpms to 7000rpms. Even 7200rpms most likely would have been safe. Why? The VQ30 has a much lower piston speed than the VQ35. The VQ35 has .5" longer rods. The VQ30 already had weak rods and the VQ35's rod are .5" longer and are MUCH weaker. That's the very reason the VQ35 is a poor motor SC or turbo. It's also the reason Nissan is using a slightly bored out VQ30 instead using the deep stroked VQ35 in their Z racecars and in the upcoming GT-R. Nissan realized the VQ35 isn't up to the task of boost.
In order to be able to rev a VQ35 to 8,000rpms and make power to 7500-800rpms, you will need to do the following:
1) New rods and hardware
2) The 05 300hp block and valve train
3) Different cams designed to push the powerband from 4800-6500rpms to 5500rpms-7500rpms or so. This is critical for power production.
4) Upgraded oil pump to handle the stress of 8000rpms
5) Revised upper and lower intake manifold designed to increase airflow at 5500-7500rpms.
In the end, you'll have a VQ35 that's a complete dog below 5000rpms and then comes to life with frenzy of power.
Thanks,
Az
Originally Posted by Dave B
The VQ35 was never designed to be a high rev motor. Have you guys seen the lengths Nissan went just to extract an extra 400rpms in the 300hp 05 motor? The block, rods, and valvetrain were redesigned so that reliability would not be compromised by just that extra 400rpm of rev (7000rpm limiter). Now think about that for a moment. Are you guys really certain a 03/04 VQ35 with the 6600rpm limiter would be happy living life above 7000rpms? I sure as heck don't. My last car (96 Maxima) had the VQ30 and I had a JWT ECU which raised the limiter from 6500rpms to 7000rpms. Even 7200rpms most likely would have been safe. Why? The VQ30 has a much lower piston speed than the VQ35. The VQ35 has .5" longer rods. The VQ30 already had weak rods and the VQ35's rod are .5" longer and are MUCH weaker. That's the very reason the VQ35 is a poor motor SC or turbo. It's also the reason Nissan is using a slightly bored out VQ30 instead using the deep stroked VQ35 in their Z racecars and in the upcoming GT-R. Nissan realized the VQ35 isn't up to the task of boost.
In order to be able to rev a VQ35 to 8,000rpms and make power to 7500-800rpms, you will need to do the following:
1) New rods and hardware
2) The 05 300hp block and valve train
3) Different cams designed to push the powerband from 4800-6500rpms to 5500rpms-7500rpms or so. This is critical for power production.
4) Upgraded oil pump to handle the stress of 8000rpms
5) Revised upper and lower intake manifold designed to increase airflow at 5500-7500rpms.
In the end, you'll have a VQ35 that's a complete dog below 5000rpms and then comes to life with frenzy of power.
In order to be able to rev a VQ35 to 8,000rpms and make power to 7500-800rpms, you will need to do the following:
1) New rods and hardware
2) The 05 300hp block and valve train
3) Different cams designed to push the powerband from 4800-6500rpms to 5500rpms-7500rpms or so. This is critical for power production.
4) Upgraded oil pump to handle the stress of 8000rpms
5) Revised upper and lower intake manifold designed to increase airflow at 5500-7500rpms.
In the end, you'll have a VQ35 that's a complete dog below 5000rpms and then comes to life with frenzy of power.
http://www.renault-sport.com/fr/worl..._technique.php
even the VQ in 03/04 can rev to 7000rpm without a sweat. I have minor AF mods and the engine is still producing good power at redline (6600rpm). I keep bumping into rev limiter as the engine just wants to keep going. No hint of any powerloss or powerbogdown or whatever.
Nismo reccomends rodbolts for sustained operation above 7200rpm. Rod bolts are known to be the weakest link. That's why most flashes are set to 7100 rpm, and I believe it's a "safe" buffer. I have yet to ear someone breaking/bending something without FI at 7000rpm. I wouldn't rev past 7200rpm without internal work...
Also, I wasn't aware Nissan redesigned the block on the 05, are you sure? I don't think so. As far as I know, the only "strenghtened" internals are rod bolts and conecting rods. Also note that the 05 engine has redline raised by 400rpm, but produces peak power only 200rpm above the 03/04.
Last edited by Nano; Jun 11, 2005 at 09:48 PM.
Nano:
I think they also changed the engine oil route at the crank shaft.... probably to give more lubrication to the crank and the rods with higher rpm... don't think the block is re-designed either!
i have the rod bolts swapped out with nismo items and constantly go up to 7200rpm... with 2K km on it now... so far so good. But I wish nismo could offer a set of stronger/lighter rods though, only know Tomei has the lighter rods H-beam for N/A high revving engine now though.
cheers,
richie
I think they also changed the engine oil route at the crank shaft.... probably to give more lubrication to the crank and the rods with higher rpm... don't think the block is re-designed either!
i have the rod bolts swapped out with nismo items and constantly go up to 7200rpm... with 2K km on it now... so far so good. But I wish nismo could offer a set of stronger/lighter rods though, only know Tomei has the lighter rods H-beam for N/A high revving engine now though.
cheers,
richie
if it has no gain or improvement, it has no purpose at all. but it is your car, your engine, do what you want. and be sure you post up your results of what happened and how much it will cost to replace your engine or internals after they self-destruct. pics are a must as well
Originally Posted by aalzuhair
I'm currently building two VQ35 and would like to know the source of this information, if you would. Very interesting to say the least.
See post #1
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....0&page=1&pp=20
2005 Short block assembly
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=3201
Car & Driver and Road & Track both noted "a stronger engine block" in the new 300hp Track 350Z motor. What did Nissan do to make it stronger? I have no idea, but it is different.
Originally Posted by Dave B
Have you guys seen the lengths Nissan went just to extract an extra 400rpms in the 300hp 05 motor? The block, rods, and valvetrain were redesigned
Originally Posted by Dave B
That's the very reason the VQ35 is a poor motor SC or turbo. It's also the reason Nissan is using a slightly bored out VQ30 instead using the deep stroked VQ35 in their Z racecars and in the upcoming GT-R. Nissan realized the VQ35 isn't up to the task of boost.
Last edited by Zexy; Jun 14, 2005 at 06:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by Zexy
Redesigned?? I doubt this.
VQ35 a poor SC or turbo motor?? You sir are definately wrong. What a lame response. Back this up please. And since when was the new GT-R going to be released with a "slightly bored out" VQ30? What does that even mean?? Has this info even been released as official? I'm sorry but your responses are definately lacking some serious FACTS and evidence=uneducated.
VQ35 a poor SC or turbo motor?? You sir are definately wrong. What a lame response. Back this up please. And since when was the new GT-R going to be released with a "slightly bored out" VQ30? What does that even mean?? Has this info even been released as official? I'm sorry but your responses are definately lacking some serious FACTS and evidence=uneducated.
its what the SuperGT car runs, so the general theory is thats what well have in the GTR
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
just because road and track says it is stronger does not mean it is so.......
as far as i am aware, the rod bolts changed, and that's all
as far as i am aware, the rod bolts changed, and that's all
OEM VQ35DE 350Z Short Engine Assembly - 2005 Track
[10103AC7M1] $3,375.00
Click to enlarge
MSRP: $4500.00
OEM NISSAN VQ35DE Short Engine Assembly for 350Z
Used in 2005 Track & 35th Anniversary Model
Fullly Assembled Short Block. Does not include Heads.
[10103AC7M1] $3,375.00
Click to enlarge
MSRP: $4500.00
OEM NISSAN VQ35DE Short Engine Assembly for 350Z
Used in 2005 Track & 35th Anniversary Model
Fullly Assembled Short Block. Does not include Heads.
It's part number specific and it is indeed a different from the other block.
Originally Posted by krismax
I have rod bolts and aftermarket valve springs and rev her high everyday. This engine is stronger than most think
Actually, I don't think your headgasket will go though. It will be the rod through the block. The motor just wasn't designed to rev that high and I still don't know why you think it's necessary. If you'd dyno and calculate your shift points, you'd see why.
Originally Posted by Zexy
VQ35 a poor SC or turbo motor?? You sir are definately wrong. What a lame response. Back this up please. And since when was the new GT-R going to be released with a "slightly bored out" VQ30? What does that even mean?? Has this info even been released as official? I'm sorry but your responses are definately lacking some serious FACTS and evidence=uneducated.
As for the VQ32. Here's a good article:
http://www.7tune.com/gtr_concept.html
The rumored VQ32DETT engine has been developed in conjunction with Cosworth (UK) and the basic design of the V6 twin turbo – in 3.0 liter guise - has seen two full seasons already in the Japanese JGTC (Japan GT Championship) racing series, which VQ powered cars have won consecutively in the last two years. The rigors of JGTC racing and advances in turbo design should put to rest any doubts about a twin turbo V6 configuration not being able to withstand the treatment expected from a US market not familiar with a top level performance turbo offering from Nissan. The concern over how the US market would receive a medium capacity V6 turbo powered GT car from Nissan has brought forth all kinds of rumored engine configurations, none of which have had any mention within the Japanese media for at least two years. It seems practically all the rumors regarding engines other than the VQ32DETT have originated from the very market that is concerned about the reliability of a turbo V6 powered GT car from Nissan (or in the North American market, Infiniti) as opposed to the supposedly better reliability a larger capacity naturally aspirated engine of similar output could offer.
So you're saying the vq35 is a poor boost motor because of the longer stroke?
If Nissan wanted to design a well built vq35dett from the factory it would be possible, but with stronger internals. They did not release these motors boost ready as well. Stroke in now way has to do with breaking rods on boosted motors. A large stroke only becomes a problem when you want to rev higher.
Bottom line is just because it has a bigger stroke, it does not mean it's a poor boost motor and that's what you are stating.
JGTC cars won't run the largest stroke as well due to endurance, needed horsepower and the laws of physics. Not because "it cannot handle boost well".
If Nissan wanted to design a well built vq35dett from the factory it would be possible, but with stronger internals. They did not release these motors boost ready as well. Stroke in now way has to do with breaking rods on boosted motors. A large stroke only becomes a problem when you want to rev higher.
Bottom line is just because it has a bigger stroke, it does not mean it's a poor boost motor and that's what you are stating.
JGTC cars won't run the largest stroke as well due to endurance, needed horsepower and the laws of physics. Not because "it cannot handle boost well".
Last edited by Zexy; Jun 15, 2005 at 07:37 PM.
Originally Posted by Zexy
So you're saying the vq35 is a poor boost motor because of the longer stroke?
If Nissan wanted to design a well built vq35dett from the factory it would be possible, but with stronger internals. They did not release these motors boost ready as well. Stroke in now way has to do with breaking rods on boosted motors. A large stroke only becomes a problem when you want to rev higher.
Bottom line is just because it has a bigger stroke, it does not mean it's a poor boost motor and that's what you are stating.
JGTC cars won't run the largest stroke as well due to endurance, needed horsepower and the laws of physics. Not because "it cannot handle boost well".
If Nissan wanted to design a well built vq35dett from the factory it would be possible, but with stronger internals. They did not release these motors boost ready as well. Stroke in now way has to do with breaking rods on boosted motors. A large stroke only becomes a problem when you want to rev higher.
Bottom line is just because it has a bigger stroke, it does not mean it's a poor boost motor and that's what you are stating.
JGTC cars won't run the largest stroke as well due to endurance, needed horsepower and the laws of physics. Not because "it cannot handle boost well".
VQ35 block (96mm bore)
VQ30DETT pistons
RB26DETT rods (74mm rods or .7mm longer than the VQ30 rods, but infinitely stronger)
That would give you a 3.2 liter displacement.It's all just a guess though.
BTW, a stock VQ30's rods are already a little weak. The VQ35's rods are nearly 1/2" longer. Adding boost greatly increases the load stress on things such as a rod. Get a lean A/F in a high gear and watch that rod exit just above the oil pan.
If you don't believe it, fine. There's no need in discussing this further.
Last edited by Dave B; Jun 15, 2005 at 09:26 PM.
The VQ35 is not just a stroked VQ30.
VQ35DE
95.5 mm bore, 81.4 mm stroke
VQ30DE
93.0 mm bore, 73.3mm stroke
it's a 8mm diffrence, pretty marginal if you ask me. Not 1/2" inch, it's LESS than 1/3". The VQ35DE(81mm stroke) is in no way a "high piston speed" engine.
Honestly I believe the reason nissan chose the VQ30DE was just one of practicality(GT500 is limited in anycase to 500hp), it has nothing to do with reliability or VQ35DE being an inapropriate engine, the engine are marginally different.
as for the RB26DETT, some tuners used to stroke it to 3liter, and getting 800hp out of it.
VQ35DE
95.5 mm bore, 81.4 mm stroke
VQ30DE
93.0 mm bore, 73.3mm stroke
it's a 8mm diffrence, pretty marginal if you ask me. Not 1/2" inch, it's LESS than 1/3". The VQ35DE(81mm stroke) is in no way a "high piston speed" engine.
Honestly I believe the reason nissan chose the VQ30DE was just one of practicality(GT500 is limited in anycase to 500hp), it has nothing to do with reliability or VQ35DE being an inapropriate engine, the engine are marginally different.
as for the RB26DETT, some tuners used to stroke it to 3liter, and getting 800hp out of it.
Last edited by Nano; Jun 15, 2005 at 09:45 PM.
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The RB26DETT will do 800HP easy, and 800whp with some work 
The most common reason for stroking the RB26 was that the increased displacement that significantly increases the torque curve when you're trying to spool a GT32XX turbo with only 3 cylinders.
Cheers,
Gary
Gruppe-S
The most common reason for stroking the RB26 was that the increased displacement that significantly increases the torque curve when you're trying to spool a GT32XX turbo with only 3 cylinders. Cheers,
Gary
Gruppe-S
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,453
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From: Riverside, California
Originally Posted by Dave B
The JGTC cars were tested with VQ35dett. They didn't last and these were fairly built motors. Nissan realized that punching out the motor to a 3.2 while keeping rod length the same has the VQ30's was the key to more power and most importantly, reliability.
boo to quotes without a source
