Does anyone know if the Nismo S2 cams are able to be installed on a factory engine with other head work (ie. 1mm over valve, springs, and retainers) and still be able to work with the factory ECU or with just an ECU Reflash?


I want to port and polish my heads, install the Nismo S2 cams, install Supertech Performance Valvetrain Kit VQ35 (includes dual springs, ti retainers, seats, and 1mm oversized diameter valve set) and try to maintain the factory ecu with just a reflash if possible.

The specs for the cams can be found here:
http://www.z1auto.com/prodmore.asp?m...ine&prodid=917

The specs for the valve train pieces can be found here:

http://www.z1auto.com/prodmore.asp?m...ne&prodid=1718

Does anyone know if this is possible or will I need better engine management to be able to use the Nismo S2 cams?

Please help....

Nick

 

They should work with an ECU reflash if the people reflashing the ECU have experience flashing a map for those cams. If not you may need several flashes to get it right.

This chart should help the guys reflashing the ECU. It shows the VTC angles necessary for maximum power.

 

Would I need to get the Nismo VTC pullies as well then?

 

For that much timing, yes. Z350lover has these cams and is running the NISMO VTCC pullies for that very reason.
Will

 

This thread has alot of good info about NA buildup. https://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/159519-photos-on-engine-rebuild-n-a.html

 

Nick,

I have received your PM and here I am

I think you will not no problem with those oversize valve spring kits + Spec 2 cams offered by Adam... but the thing is... why do you want to go oversize? Unless you are going for FI (you have larger flows), you don't really need to go to that step though... Standard size valve train kit will serve you right on your N/A setup (if that's what you are going for) and will also save you some money on machining the cylinder heads.

I cannot tell you exactly how Spec 2 cams will behave on your engine because I am using Spec 1 cams with Nismo VTC pulleys. Many people mentioned that you don't need the nismo VTC pulleys because they don't really help that much... but from my point of view, those VTC units do pick up the lost torque back at the mid range when you are using those wild cams, so they are worth those extra money when you are building your engine already.

With the Spec 1 cams, the idle isn't too bad even with those high compression pistons that I am using, I only have some idle hunts when the engine is cold and also a very loud metal scrapping noise at the start up (mainly due to the stronger valve springs)... you might also want to set your idle at 800rpm instead to make sure that engine doesn't stall out too. So I would want to guess with Spec 2 cams, those conditions I mentioned should be similar to spec 1 cams... (That's am I am using MoTeC M600 ecu).

Regarding to the Engine management... you will want to have a good engine management to be able to control those cam timings, otherwise there is no use for you to go up to Spec 2 cams and that is the reason why I am using MoTeC computer as it is the only available computer that can control up to 2 intake and 2 exhaust cam timings. I heard that UTEC will offer the cam timing module soon to their existing product and you might want to look into that as well... Also APS might have a new ECU (not unichip) that can control the cam timings as well as the DBW throttle body (same as motec) in the future. I doubt having your factory ECU reflash will be a good idea unless you can bring the whole car there and they tune YOUR CAR with YOUR ECU at the spot because think about it... has anyone done Spec 2 in the States yet? And has any of the ECU reflash company done any similar job for anyone before you? If not, you will not be able to benefit from using Spec 2 cams (even with larger valves) and you might as well go for Tomei or JWT cams since those people have more experiences with reflashing ECUs to suit those cams.

I always prefer to get my car tuned at the spot because those mods are on your car... not in their heads when they do the reflash. And I think you should do the same to your car too since you are putting so much money into it as well

EDIT: Btw, if you are going for FI later on, then you might want to consider just getting Spec 1 cams because I have already spoken to my tuner (who is VERY famous in australia on 350Z TT), he said that the MOST wildest cams that he would put on a FI 350z will be just the Spec 1 cams... he wouldn't put Spec 2 cams on... But you might want to do more researches into that though since I don't really know the reason why... Best of luck!

Hope that helps!

cheers,

richie

 

Richie

First off thanks for your response and reading through your thread has provided me with alot of insight.

I have changed my mind about going with the 1mm over due to the fact that I plan on staying NA. I plan on eventually going with the AEBS Stroker with the 11.0:1 pistons. I want to rev up to 7500rpm at the most but am not sure what the limitations will be with the stroker kit.

My goal is to get as close to 450whp as possible NA. AEBS quoted me in an email that with just the stroker kit with the 11.5:1 pistons should achieve around 400whp but I don't want to count on that. I plan on adding all the other boltons and a light weight fly wheel/clutch combo.

I have been talking with Mike @ AAM about taking my car there and having them do reflashes while my car is there and tune it on dyno.

I guess I will gather more info and look into EMS solutions and go from there...


What all did you have to get for the Motec to make it work with the Z? Did you lose any features the Z came with such as cruise control, AC, power windows, locks, or TCS?

Thanks,
Nick

 

Do the S2 cams work with the revup motors?

 

Nick,

With motec computer, I don't lose any factory features at all... still have A/C, Cruise Control, Traction control working as stock... no problem what so ever... because my tuner- Nizpro provides a plug and play solution for our car... the motec they supply comes with a base map ready to start your engine (then you can fine tune that to suit whatever you have got on your car)... so you just simply plug the motec ecu with the stock ecu and the motec will take over the entire engine management part from there (about 10 mins work including taking those panels out to get to the stock ecu)...

If you want further help to purchase motec ecu from my tuner, just send me a pm and I can hook you up with them (there is no money biz between my tuner and me, just purely help the z owners out here!)

Edit:

Nick, you will want to keep an eye on the piston speed too with the stoker kit at 7500rpm since the piston speed is nearly at 5000 ft/min already (with 101.5mm stroke)... my piston speed is far less than that figure @ 8000rpm though (with 81.4mm)

http://www.csgnetwork.com/pistonspeedcalc.html

I heard with the piston speed near 5000 or 5500 (I am not too sure which one really), you gotta be extra careful... Best of luck!
cheers,

richie

 

well maybe I will keep my revs around 7200 rpm....

Richie,
Are you running on pump gas still? If so what is grade your are running and do you know what it would be compared to in the US? I want to maintain drivability and achieve power on pump gas.

Now I just need to start ordering parts and get started to follow in the foot steps of the pioneer

 

if you are going NA, there is no need for the oversized valves at all

meatbag - no, there are no cams for the revup motors as of yet

 

Nick,

I am still running with pump gas, not even the highest octane gas available in australia (I am doing 98 Octane and we still have 100 Octane available now)...

I am not too sure what's equivalent of 98 Octane in the States though, probably you would like to do a search to find out? We have Shell (offer both 98 and 100), BP (98 Octane), Caltax and Mobil (98 Octane)...

cheers,

richie

 

in the states, we usually get 91 octane... some have 95+

 

I think the octane rating in Europe, Asia, and Australia are different than US ratings. I don't recall the exact conversion, but I am thinking 98 octane there is similar to 94-95 octane here. I will look and see if I can find more info.


EDIT: Here we go....

In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "normal" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91 in Europe.

This actaully preceded the above if you are unsure of what RON and MON are....

The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel through a specific test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing these results with those for mixtures of isooctane and n-heptane.

There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load. MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, a higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON. Normally fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.

 

Yeah I knew the RON and MON #'s would be different but I didn't know what the conversion was.

jran76...thanks for the info.

I have access to 93 and 94 around the Cincinnati area so I should be able to tune with roughly the same type of fuel Richie is using so that is good

 

as I recall, 98 RON was about equal to 94 we get in the US (which is labelled I think as R+M/2)

 

Yes, 94 Octane which Sunoco is getting rid of soon! AHHHH

 

Nick... you can try to get it tuned with even higher octane fuel to get more power out of the engine... I could get it tuned with 100 octane here, but that type of fuel just got introduced into australia, so only a few selected petrol outlets have that... although there are a few closer ones to my work/home, I still cannot be bothered to get that done just yet (they are slightly dearer to pump too)...

cheers,

richie

 

Now to decide if I should go ahead with the head work and get the Motec later or if I should hold off until I can get the Motec and do head work all at once.....

 

That is correct, our octane is calculated as R+M/2


Like everything else, we (US) have to use a different measurment system....



Also 430ZTT, there will be other options coming along (the UTEC was mentioned) that will likely allow to control the cam timing. What kind of time frame are you looking at to have this up and running?