Gee Cheston, I AM ashamed for wanting to save some money, I guess I've got to pay more to feel like I truly care about my car. Thanks for setting me straight and making it that much easier to decide whether or not to buy the Techno flash.

 

You get what you pay for.

you find a $200 - $300 ECU, then get it. and you'll see.


Guarantee you, you will never get the same type of service from them as you will from Technos.

 

Chebosto,
I'm a Engineering Consultant I find your cost inline to market demand ( which is how businesses stay alive). As I've seen time and time again there are always going to be people with limited budgets who want something of value for next to nothing. I also know the the 350Z is using the CAN protocol and some people may not realize that the ECU is really a server to at least 10+/- other computers located in areas all over the car. Keeping All Those Computers balanced can be a demanding process, when reprogramming the ECU. I'm sure you know what the "Cascade Affect" is. Keep up the good work.

 

It looks like TS has decided to cater to the niche market. Lets just face it. The value of Intellectual Property is difficult to quantify. The laws of supply and demand will sort this matter out with much less emotion. Nonetheless, this ECU is at the top of my list of desired mods. After all of the information posted on this site, I would not spend money on an ECU from any other vendor unless it was NISMO. In which case, you are looking at even more $$. I am very interested in seeing the gains of the header / ECU combo.

 

Thank you for your professional opinion!

 

From the currently available choices, I'd pick the TS program over the others. But I will admit, the price is holding me back somewhat. If there was a group buy, I'd likely be very interested...I just love getting a good deal

Seriously, I think at this point the ecu flash wouldn't give me enough bang for the buck to justify it. I currently have just the Borla exhaust, no other mods, so I wouldn't expect a very noticeable difference. But if/when I start doing more like the intake plenum, etc. I think the ecu flash may become more attractive.

 

I am a business owner and from my point of view, I will probably sell my "high demand" product at a "high" price. If you were in Technosquare's shoes, I am sure you will be doing the same.

Two way of making money:

High quality=High Price=Less Sales
Low quality=Low Price=More Sales

 

Hmmm, I'd say its a little one the steep side, but its sure is a desirable product....you wouldn't see people badgering for the price to drop a few bucks if the demand wasn't high.

Id say $545 is a price thats much more desireable without sacrficing much in the way of profit. Again, this is an opinion of someone who represents a true Z fanatic (i love my car, and want only the best for it...but like the car itself, I want it at a fair price) Im willing to pay a little more for great quality, so I probably will end up getting this mod soon, once I get the price back for my iForged re-builds.

BTW Cheston, thanks a WHOLE lot for everything your doing for the car and the community at large.

 

It's still software... And we charge and arm and a leg for it. If you want a better product you upgrade to Windows XP Professional. If you don't want a better product you stick with what you have...

Mind you, smaller market versus larger market

 

wow everyone complaining so much about the ecu. Wait till the first turbo kit comes out. everyone is going to complain because the price is going to be high. if what techno squares customers are saying is true and how much they like the ecu i would pay a thousand dollars for it. look around everything is expensive for the car, its not an american car where you go down to the local auto parts store and get what you need. ill pay whatever the price is. lots of good points in this post.

 

Hey guys, great discussion going. My opinion is that it is priced just fine for being the first real ecu upgrade..mind you, it is just software. But they were first to do it, and so they deserve the most credit and thus entitled to have a higher price, especially with a good warranty included.
Once more competition sets in, the price will go down, but are you willing to wait? Thats what it comes down to!
I am also interested in that Group buy.....perhaps 15 people @ $500, or 50 people @ $450....

Cheston, do you work for TS or should I call them directly?
tnx.
-Rami
(g35c 6MT)

 

To answer the original question, yes I would get the flash if it were $500. Interesting and informative discussion though. I am interested because this is one of the few real upgrades that will give real world power. 500 rpm is power. I hit my rev limiter all the time, more so on the street than the track where shift points are locations.

 

First or all, people keep calling this a "high demand" product. Hmmmmm, I haven't seen too many people on this 15,000 member board who have purchased this "high demand" product. This is a "high want" product, but from the limited ammount of buyers I have seen, I would take a pretty good guess that the product is simply priced out of the market. Second of all is the "limited supply" in the supply/demand equation. Seems to me there is no limited supply. There is an infinite supply. They have no restrictions on how many ECU's they can reflash. This isn't the proverbial glass of water in the desert folks.

I am just telling people this. If you don't fall to price gauging pressure, the price has to drop. I suspect it will very soon anyway, unless someone is so stupid as to cut off their nose to spite their face.

This is a public car board. I have seen many other products fall under much more scrutiny than this one, but now we have someone personally involved. People are taking this personally and acting like you just called their baby "ugly." TS has every right to sell the product for whatever they want and in a public forum, we have the right to discuss everything from the performance to the pricing of said product.

Wow, to be thought of as a true "sportscar conusor" or to be thought of highly, I never knew you had to just be willing to pay more!! That is simply a ridiculous statement. According to that logic, we should not buy from TS because they also make ECU's for Paseo's and Sentras. How can I be a true conosur or thought of highly if I have parts on my car by a company that also makes parts for lowly Paseos and Sentras??

I have been a professional sales person my entire working life. I actually find it comical to watch people stumble through objections in the absolute worst possible way. As soon as you take things personal, you lose all objectivity. At that point, you have already lost the fight.

 

you are still the only person here that is comparing the Z to a honda. perhaps i am missing something, you did pay $34k for a track model Z, did you not?

if you have been in professional sales your entire life, i would like you to explain the processes of engineering a product of this magnitude. ALL engineers know what it takes when they are tasked to develop a product in whicn no ther company has yet attempted... in which i take the black box analogy when pertaining to the ECU.... it is difficult for some people to grasp the reality that electronics products dont appear via magic.. people take time for research and planning and development. code writing. decyphering the OE program/reverse engineering...

i dont expect you to understand what's going on behind the scenes....but you are claming these low-ball R&D dollar amounts, yet you haven't been there from the start and are pulling numbers out of the air. the trips to japan alone cost more than half your estimates. Who's the one trying to pull a fast one?

the only thing i agree with you is that this IS a public forum... well. Takao's forum. but you are entitled to your opinion.
This is a high demand product priced at market value, and yes, it is being sold and i dont believe its fair for you to call those who are purchasing it 'chumps' as you stated previously in the poll thread.

 

Excatly my thought. If you want to be the first to have it, then you have to pay the premium price. Just like the exhaust system, cai, etc...when they first came out..

I don't see any point to argue anymore... both side has their reasons... This is a want upgrade, and not a need upgrade.. I'm sure most of us are in the waiting game...(or waiting for group buy)...

 

I'm going to wait. Not because I don't trust technosquare... but I just don't know what was done to alter the ECU's program and if it's really worth $600 bucks (yet).

Also IMHO people are willing to dump $$$ on exhausts and stuff cause you can FEEL and SEE the product. Buying software is a very ethereal... especially when it's described like

1) remove your ECU
2) send it to us
3) we do something magic
4) boom instant HP.

It's just very intangible which is one of the reasons why I'm holding back to save $600 for something else.

But eventually... perhaps maybe... when I get money for parts, I might.

 

Man, you are just missing the point. I doubt the CEO of IBM knows how to build a computer, and he doesn't have to. That is why engineers should be engineers and businessmen should be businessmen.

Let's say it was $75,000 that it cost to develop the ECU. Now you need to sell 127 units just to recoup your cost. Now, in terms of name brand recognition, TS is no AEM or Borla or even Stillen for that matter and it's really hard to sell some intangible without real name recognition, especiall when you are asking $600 for it!!!! Looks like at the current rate, 127 order are gonna take while to come by. In that time, someone else will come along with the same thing for a lot less, while you haven't even gotten into the black yet. Now you will have competition for further orders, and you are still not even established yourselves.

I might not know engineering an ECU, but I understand profit margins and how to make money. I will bet you pretty much any ammount of money you want that if you dropped the price to $300 (much easier to swallow, even if you have some doubt), you could have 1000 orders in 3 months. That is $300,000-$75,000 for a net profit of $225,000. That profit is net because it is just an add on product to an already existing business. In that time, you have already flooded the market and established your reputation across a much wider audience. It will now be much harder for any competition to come along and compete, since they would have to drop their price even further. You have pretty much pre-disposed of you competitors.

In the end, a business is about making money. If they aren't, they shouldn't be in business. So, that is all I have to say here, we'll see what happens and that will be the true test.

 

I have posted on this subject time and time again.......I can understand people wanting to save a little money here and there but......
I feel like Techno Square is getting cornered on this and it really sucks.
They are a buisness and its their right to price however they want to. If you look at sending your ECU oversees to get reprogrammed your looking at $1000 and almost two weeks without a car. Then once you get it I guarantee it wont beat what Techno Sqaure can do. Their pricing on this is fair for what they have invested.
If you want you guys can wait untill someone else comes out with their reprogramed ECU and maybe it will be cheaper. But Techno Sqauare isnt going to let them know all the little secrets to the tuning and i guarantee the customer service wont be *** good. Tadashi and the whole gang have been busting their asses on this project......they way "some" people have been acting on this board is a little scetchy at best.
To me it sounds like other "companies" are trying to "stir the pot" on this subject which is pretty pathetic.
just my $1.50

 

I totally agree with the above statement.

As a consumer, Z owner and car enthusiast, I want to throw my $0.02 in.

I was hoping/expecting a much larger hp increase than this ECU has to offer. Personally, I'm only interested in the hp increase and could care less about the speed limit increase (I do a lot of city driving) or rev limit increase. They are not vital when trying to make moderate hp. Now if your trying to make say 500-600+hp or so from FI, then I can see the rev limit increase to be desired.

So in my head, I see myself paying $600 for 5+/- hp.

Chebosto, this is just my opinion. I'm just looking for best bang for the buck in my mods.

It takes some dedicated people to do what you guys did and most of us appreciate all the work and effort, but not everyone is going to be happy with your results (you probably know that already). So of course, we can wait or do something else with our money.

 

Please be aware that it is not a 5hp gain...

Dyno

and its not all about peak HP gain either, but in fact, gains throughout the rpm band.

thanks!