I don't mind correcting, if you promise not to take it as a flame.

Thank you for admitting that. Now can you clarify how many FI cars you have built, worked on, tuned, designed, or driven.


Incorrect, if both cars are driven the same, they will be the same. Fuel consumption is a base factor that is math matical based on HP output. There is no changing that. There are some factors that aren't worth getting into, since I don't want to post all night. In fact the turbo has worse fuel milage because of the power it creates around peak TQ. The longer the TQ band, the more fuel consumed.

Have you ever driven a High HP turbo car in the Rain?!?!?!? This statement couldn't be farther from the truth. Have you ever driven a car with a Turbo, started to have bad wheel spin, then let out and get back in it. Do you think you have less boost then when you let out? WRONG, you have more...reason why is because when you let off the throttle you have slammed the Throttle blades shut, cutting of the air. Fuel is still being added at a great amount for that split second. Then you open the throttle plates back up.... the fuel is now in the turbine housing, then ignites. Presto, chango... you have a boost spike, and now you are more out of control then when you let off. You also prove it with your next statment below.

That is exactly what I am talking about.

A blowers power follows the motors natural curve, just as it was NA. But with a added percentage that gains as RPM increases. Say your cars cams "come alive" at 5000 RPM. They will do the same with the blower, it's very very controlable.

A properly aligned blower belt last very long, and if durability was in question. I don't think you would see OEM's using them. TRD, GTP's, 2003 COBRAS, Lightnings, etc.


I better tell my GF not to floor her Roush above 4500 then. She might shread the belt....Better get Ford on the phone, and tell them to stop making 2003 cobras the belts are going to break. Now back to reality where if both cars are at 4500, and ready to go... it will be a lot closer then most will think.


I believe this works for both Superchargers and Turbos. Since you just said "you would be a rich man" In other words you make PROFIT off selling turbo kits, or some relation to Greddy. Sooooo that makes this thread COMPELETLY biased, and scewed. I have no issues with people making money....but if you are going to do a SC vs TT debate. Don't bring your profit margins to the table.

EA

 

I'm just going to say this. Before you talk about the disadvantages of a centrifugal supercharger, do your research and talk to people who actually run them.

When people talk like they know what they're talking about, people tend to believe what you're saying. Please learn a bit more about the ATI setup before you post again about this or I will be forced to thrash you.

Edit: I'm sure you know this, but I wasn't talking about you, SVTKid.

 

In spite of an aura of objectivity and pseudo credibility due to length - so what? This is all just opinion.

Opinion in which you rationalize that you actually LIKE turbo lag and assert that it is actually a desireable thing. Give em a break. You're entitled to your opinion but that's all it is. SCs are on the boost all the time? The Procharger isn't. It's bypass valve vents boost when you arent pounding it. Does it degrade drivability at all? Cause you to spin ther rears with all that dreaded off the line torque you apprently don't want? Nope. Not unless you slam it. Know of what you speak before you offer up overreaching generalist treatises like this. They do more harm than good. I just hate it when newbies who have never owned either take overblown posts like the starter for this thread as informative gospel.

Post of the month? Yeah, right...

joe

 

Thanks "J" man, I always see eye to eye with your posts, and enjoy reading them.

EA

 

In a lifetime or lately? In the last year I have done probably around 15 FI installations and built 5-6 complete drivetrain setups.

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Incorrect, if both cars are driven the same, they will be the same. Fuel consumption is a base factor that is math matical based on HP output. There is no changing that. There are some factors that aren't worth getting into, since I don't want to post all night. In fact the turbo has worse fuel milage because of the power it creates around peak TQ. The longer the TQ band, the more fuel consumed.

You are absolutely correct... but I am not talking about gas mileage compared to area under the curve, I am referencing cruising and part throttle driving. No one cares what their mileage is at full throttle. A clutchless centrifigul charger is constantly contributing to engine load. Perhaps not a heavily measurable difference (at cruise), but I am covered here.

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Have you ever driven a High HP turbo car in the Rain?!?!?!? This statement couldn't be farther from the truth. Have you ever driven a car with a Turbo, started to have bad wheel spin, then let out and get back in it. Do you think you have less boost then when you let out? WRONG, you have more...reason why is because when you let off the throttle you have slammed the Throttle blades shut, cutting of the air. Fuel is still being added at a great amount for that split second. Then you open the throttle plates back up.... the fuel is now in the turbine housing, then ignites. Presto, chango... you have a boost spike, and now you are more out of control then when you let off. You also prove it with your next statment below.

Hmm not sure I agree. Of course yes I have driven turbo cars in the rain. Compressor surge or pressure blow off happens immediatly as the throttle is closed. You get your rich spike then (and only if you are running an airflow meter), and by the time you get back on the throttle you should be all good. Even if it spikes 1 or 2 pounds im not too concerned, any engine can handle a very brief spike. Maybe if you pound your throttle on and off rapidly you get this? At any rate, I already said in my first post that the SC boosts with more consistency... a generalized comment that pretty much covers this here. My main point here was that a decently sized turbo is not trying to generate boost at any cost unless you really give it good throttle... and of course on the fly adjustment.

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That is exactly what I am talking about.

I was referencing turbo chargers that are too small for the engine. Properly sized turbos meant for high HP dont have any issue spooling when not needed. Which was also my original point in defending the fact that turbo lag is not to bad when you have a medium sized turbo like the 18g.

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A blowers power follows the motors natural curve, just as it was NA. But with a added percentage that gains as RPM increases. Say your cars cams "come alive" at 5000 RPM. They will do the same with the blower, it's very very controlable.

Agreed.

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I properly aligned blower belt last very long, and if durability was the case. I don't think you would see OEM's using them. TRD, GTP's, 2003 COBRAS, Lightnings, etc.

Gotta love OEM quality. If only all the aftermarket products followed their standards. Its not typical to run into belt issues until attemping the spin the charger very hard. So in this light you are probably right and most people wont run into issues with the belt as long as their kit comes with a very strong and durable charger mount that is aligned straight and level, and of course a quality belt. Maybe I have been around too many super high HP SC cars and watched them have trouble finding belts strong enough for the abuse.

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I better tell my GF not to floor her Roush above 4500 then. She might shread the belt....Better get Ford on the phone, and tell them to stop making 2003 cobras the belts are going to break. Now back to reality where if both cars are at 4500, and ready to go... it will be a lot closer then most will think.

I put my little smile face there for a reason. I wouldnt bother calling Ford... i havent heard of any problems with their setups. I removed the comment from my original post since I beleive while it was sarcastic... it would be misleading.

The turbo car making the same power to the wheels with matched compressor efficiency is putting less stress on the engine. Of course, also, Supercharged cars have a HP curve that sit near a 45 degree angle peaking at or near redline. The more area under the curve (turbos) makes for the faster car. If you can do this with less load on the engine... where is the arguement. Hell... the fastest cars, import and domestic, are turbocharged. IF we look at the numbers again... Motor Trend tested the greddy 350z and ran a 12.79 at 5.6psi. Hmm, thats supposed to be making a bit less HP then the ATI 350s. What are the ATI 350s running? (Honestly I dont even know, but I am just ASSUMING they arent any faster on street tires). So when we consider this... less rwhp, but due to more area under the curve... the Greddy car is easily just as fast. Hmm... not only that but no parastic drag on the crank? Very nice. Unless I am missing something here... this sounds like a easy decision to me.


[B]Hmm. Ok I make a profit selling anything. So if you want a Procharger or a Greddy TT I dont care its a decision for the owner of the car to make. I could easily get the ATI kit on my car... hell I could have HAD it on my car for some time now... But patience is a virtue and I have 2 race cars and a truck so I dont mind waiting.

Wanna talk about biased adn scewed? I beleive you already own the Procharger. Hmmmmm. EDIT: I retract this statement, For some reason I thought I was talking to jesseenglish. As for SVTKid I have no idea if you have a procharger or not... but you did say your wife is running a SC'd car

I make no profit putting parts on my cars... so profit margin has no factor in why I make what decision for the 350z.

BTW none taken as a flame. I like a good debate, and if I have offended you in anyway it was without intention.

thanks,
Charles

 

So basically your assuming I am not a credible tuner and my entire post is BS because I dont want a Procharger kit like you do?

Or that length was supposed to inforce credibility, even tho the length of the section in which I talked about the procharger driving characteristics was merely a few sentances? I barely said anything about the driveability.

Also, I never stated that a procharger is on boost all the time. I said that it is very easy to regulate boost on a turbo when you have a somewhat "laggy" turbo system. I never said anything about any static RPM producing X boost no matter what the conditions.

As for my opinion on appreciating a little turbo lag? I didnt know I had to justify my opinion... but I have owned and driven countless turbo cars with turbos of all sorts of varying sizes. I dont like boosting my engine at very low RPM and high load when I am just trying to drive a tad bit "peppy". This is a personal preference that is justied to keep the car from running too rich for standard driving (of course you are running richer under boost) and I just dont like high load at low RPMs. So I dont like little tiny turbos. I explained and rationalized that I beleive a tad laggy of a turbo is great and that there is no lag in situations where you actually want/need to harness the power of your FI system. Basically I was trying to express that turbo lag isnt hurting anyone, and its easier to keep the car under more standard conditions when your not racing. Not to mention its annoying having the BOV blasting at everyone just to keep up with traffic.

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Post of the month? Yeah, right...

IMHO, this very well could be if it sparks the best debate between either type of Forced Induction and offers insight to the people less experienced to help them make a decision and learn a little about their cars too.

 

BTW to those that think I am biased in any way... I really am not. If you wanted a turbo or a supercharger I will gladly sell, install, and tune either. I am around more FI cars on a daily basis than anyone else who doesnt also own a performance shop. I own and operate a dynojet 248 and have seen it all. TT and SC Vipers, 400, 500, 600 HP Turbo 4 bangers. Vortech charged Contours, modified lightnings, corvettes, lotus, you name it.

I am a super open minded person. If you do a search for old posts of mine, you will find that I was originally planning on getting the ATI kit. EDIT: If you can stand up with a good defensive and clarify why exactly you choose the SC and not TT, and what you feel are the benefits of it... I could possibly even be swayed back into wanting a SC. I was merely giving my personal order of thoughts... It was not intended to sell products or service, as I offered neither. It was not intended to be a guideline for anyone either... it was merely intended to spread my opinion and experience and then talk a little about the tuning of the car since no one seems to talk much about that here.

I am not a noob... and if you read my entire 3 original posts, you probably even learned a thing or two from me. If you disagree with my personal opinion on preference towards driving characteristics... then by all means disagree. I can understand and think of several reasons why someone would also want a supercharger... perhaps I did you guys a misjustice by not covering that. But at any rate... disagree all you like... but by no means do you have any right to call me a noob unless you think you can stand up and back that.

 

ok first of all I will say this to EVERYONE your all F'in biased... everyone is biased with there own preferences... not really an issue is it??? I like Nitrous better than both SC or TT right now because no company has proven to me that I should trust them yet as far as to sway me into shellin out 5-7K

anyways moving on...

PHUNK: good posts I would agree with you on many points... TT is the way to go betweeen the 2 you can go on your road trip and boost real low(not even accounting for a boost controller in car), and you can go to the track and have loads of Torque on tap, by the way just as a side not I love tq and I will always take it over HP... both cars cruisin on the highway and you floor it TT wins, I would agree as well, it will by no means be a huge gap but TT I believe will win... but I do not believe belts will be torn on SC's and such or at least not over time, I like that little bit of lag you talk about as well especially with a beefy car like the Z on a little honda 1.6 liter I would maybe worry a little bit but the Z has enough to push itself... AND HONESTLY WHO DOES CAE ABOUT WHAT MILEAGE YOU GET A WOT, I mean please I think most people probably dont want to know cause of how depressing it is hahaha

SVT: your so tense easy... ReLaX take a laxative or something but I will say that arent top alcohol dragsters Supercharged???? I think sooooo..... you can get all the potential you want out of a SC but you lack some of the versatility of a turbo, and as for you having a SVT you know I'm sorry...(can anyone detect my bias of fords hehehe...) no I'm just playin thats your decision and your preference which is cool (just as long as I'm not payin for anything)

bottom line its all in your preference, needs, and driving style. I think to get an SC too the point where it screams down the track(and I do mean speedwise , it already makes noise) it takes a bit more work and tuning, but will that same car be your street car, and if so do you really want to change a pulley when you really could just hit a few buttons and go home, as for me its real easy to just close my bottle with my remote opener ( its a nice little button, and disarm my nitrous and go home) and until a good reliable prven TT comes out (or SC if I could find a good one) my car will remain strictly NA (plus nitrous hahaha)

and to all I meant nothing mean by this thread everything was all in good fun and humor

just my biased opinion

-non

 

I am waiting to see the Greddy TT too, and I agree with phunk's opinion about the turbo lag, I think a bit of lag is better, so that the engine's not under all that stress when cruising...one of the main reasons why I chose TT over SC is that I can't stand the noice SC makes...

 

Another uninformed post. An SC'd engine is not under stress when cruising. Your car is not on boost when you're cruising. If you don't like the noise an SC makes, fine, I can understand that.

 

samw1978: I was saying that a somewhat laggy turbo is easy to drive around "peppy" and not have the boost come on unless you really get on it. A smaller turbo, or a supercharger, will typically start pushing unless you drive like an old man. Jesseenglish is right the supercharger does not just boost as a factor of RPM.... so while CRUISING as in staying at a steady RPM without accelerating... its not generating any boost. I apologize if my original post implied this, but thats not exactly how i meant it.

Of course there is no denying the fact that no matter what you are doing your crank is always spining the charger... so like i said a couple posts ago... the load at cruising may not be noticable or barely even measurable... but it is there. I wouldnt worry much about it tho, as it couldnt really even be pulling more than a power steering pump, if even. I dont know exactly.

 

I agree with phunk in the fact that a TT car has more torque on tap at any given time than a centrifugal SC, simply for the fact that you can have full boost at lower RPM's. My point is that by touting the benefits of TT over SC you have implied that SC is inferior. The ATI SC can easily produce more HP than our VQ35 can safely handle without major engine upgrades. Most people in this forum are average users who want the benefit of more HP, but don't feel like getting stronger rods, head gaskets etc.

There is negligible parasitic loss from the SC. Yes you theoretically could get more net gain from a TT in comparison to an SC, but what are we really talking about here? Maybe 1-2 HP. Those parasitic losses are easily negated by the fact that a centrifugal SC creates much less heat than a TT. My intake temps are around 110-120 degress on a 80-90 degree day running the car hard. How hot do you think that a TT is going to run, unless you have a MASSIVE Air-Air intercooler or a good water-air with an additional radiator for the external water tank. 170-200 degrees are not uncommon for turbocharged vehicles. How can one possibly expect to run full timing with an intake temp that hot without detonations... the answer, add more fuel to cool the temps down or retard the timing, which both decrease power.

How about the higher engine oil temps, engine bay temps, oil coking on turbo bearings unless proper cooling time is allowed.

There are several cons to TT's that you failed to address as most people who are enamoured with the benefits of turbocharging often do. So the simple answer is to simply promote the benefits of them and diss the SC. I apologize if this came off as a flame, but I am sick and tired of people promoting TT's without discussing drawbacks and using SC's to attempt to make the product look better.

Not everyone here is an FI expert, so by neglecting to discuss things, you've done them a disservice by giving them high hopes without discussing the drawbacks to the system.

The simple fact is they are just air pumps. One does it by RPM, the other does it by exhaust gasses. One is loud and obnoxious and the other isn't. One increases air temps approx, 20-30 degrees above ambient, the other much more depending on the size of the intercooler. One can be installed fairly simply, the other is a little more difficult simply because of room available in the engine bay. They both require an experienced tuner or bad things will happen to your engine.

Please if you're going to discuss things, give people all the info, not just what they want to hear. I'm not looking through rose colored glasses. I know the drawbacks and benefits. I chose SC because of the noise (it's intimidating), the low heat factor, the ease of installation, and the cost.

Please for those of you who are considering FI, do your own research. Don't rely on this forum to give you all of your answers. Independent research for an unbiased opinion is the key.

 

I agree with this... the ATI Charger is able to get you to the limits of the stock motor with no problem. I stand in position that the TTs will get you more area under the curve and rwhp at the limits of the engine... The parasitic loss from the SC is more than I beleive you are thinking. But with either case, if your not looking to build a race car or get the absolute MOST from the engine on the edge... then go with whichever one suits your driving characteristics and preferences better.

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There is negligible parasitic loss from the SC. Yes you theoretically could get more net gain from a TT in comparison to an SC, but what are we really talking about here? Maybe 1-2 HP. Those parasitic losses are easily negated by the fact that a centrifugal SC creates much less heat than a TT. My intake temps are around 110-120 degress on a 80-90 degree day running the car hard. How hot do you think that a TT is going to run, unless you have a MASSIVE Air-Air intercooler or a good water-air with an additional radiator for the external water tank. 170-200 degrees are not uncommon for turbocharged vehicles. How can one possibly expect to run full timing with an intake temp that hot without detonations... the answer, add more fuel to cool the temps down or retard the timing, which both decrease power.

I disagree to the fullest with this paragraph. I believe the loss is much greater then 1-2HP. I have no documents or proof so I cannot give exact information. But I would have to personally just *GUESS* that it is taking probably 25hp to turn it as it comes out of the box. I have friends with very large chargers on their vipers with estimates of almost 100hp in drag loss. None of this is documented tho... so this is just the hear-say between lots of tuners I talk to.

As to a turbocharger creating more intake temps? Well, this is all up in the air. It all depends on the size and efficiency of a compressor, a turbo or a supercharger can produce higher charge temps, all depending on where in their range they are operating. However a I do know that some friends of mine with medium to large front mounts document intake air temps of about 20 degrees hotter than the atmospheric temp. This is no hotter than your SC. I would have to assume you were seeing 170+ temps in cars using small stock turbos that are being boosted higher then factory intentions. Maybe I am wrong?

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How about the higher engine oil temps, engine bay temps, oil coking on turbo bearings unless proper cooling time is allowed.

The ammount of engine oil that goes thru the turbocharger is very small. A turbo system does generate a lot of heat, but if you heat wrap the downpipes and turbine housing with the good stuff... it really makes a HUGE difference. This is one thing I would do the first time around putting the twins on my Z. A turbo system I put in a IS300 I had to use tons of wrap on because the turbine was within 1.5" of brake lines and some wiring. A really nice heatshield and then some wrap kept it cool enough that you could actually on a finger to the wrap as long as you werent just over with a dyno run.

You are correct that the turbo chargers will cook if you just shut off the car after boosting. But I dont find this a big issues since most people dont boost their cars hard then immediatly shut off the engine. I drive nice on my home streets and thru parking lots... and as long as you drive it normal for a good 5 mintues before parking it, there is no need to use a turbo timer or wait for cool down.

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There are several cons to TT's that you failed to address as most people who are enamoured with the benefits of turbocharging often do. So the simple answer is to simply promote the benefits of them and diss the SC. I apologize if this came off as a flame, but I am sick and tired of people promoting TT's without discussing drawbacks and using SC's to attempt to make the product look better.

By all means defend the SC and your decision. Its not like I think you made a bad decision, its just not complimentary to mine.

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Not everyone here is an FI expert, so by neglecting to discuss things, you've done them a disservice by giving them high hopes without discussing the drawbacks to the system.

I agree with you here and I feel that I did infact do a minor disservice by using a tone in my original posts that just made TT looks like the obvious solution. For this I apologize, its just that what was going through my head was why I wanted the TT and not the SC. However I beleive it was still educational for a lot of people and it could be used as a starting point to get the opinion of someone who is pro TT, now they just need to find someone giving the SC good props.

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Please for those of you who are considering FI, do your own research. Don't rely on this forum to give you all of your answers. Independent research for an unbiased opinion is the key.

Definatly take this advice! Dont listen to just me or just him. The best idea is to talk to countless people with both. If you can, even get a ride or maybe even DRIVE them! When my TT's show up, I will gladly give any serious potential TT'ers a ride.

-Charles

 

I just go for the underdog somtimes. Sorry to those of you that think i am tense... I really am a rather laid back guy, people on this site that know me. Know that is true.

Phunk, I am glad to see that we are seeing more eye to eye on the posts. And now that you have clarified some topics, I do agree with you more. But from your original post, (you have to admit) left some to be desired, as far as credible facts.

Since I have first hand installed for friends multiple ATI 350Z kits, I tend to try and add a little first hand expereince in those threads. Sorry if that comes off as biased. It's just that there is a lot of people posting about stuff such as "the blower can only make 14psi" "the motors will blow up" Which couldn't be farther from the truth. So I try and step in and add what I have expereinced myself. I am sure I will post adding my first hand experince if I ever end up lending a hand in a turbo kit install.

As for me being biased for owning a ProCharger. That is far from true... there are many people that PM me, and ask my advice. I give them that 100% non biased, plus I don't make a dime of anyone. I currently own cars with all three forms of FI. Turbo, Roots, Centrifical. Hence I am truly unbiased. They all have there pro's and con's. Everyone will pick the one they like, just like many do with brands.

Nonmature, no harm to faul. It is everyones preference. Since back when I was in college I had a 97 cobra, and traded it for a...well 97 cobra. So people thought it was funny and then the "svtkid" nickname was formed. Yes I currently own one.

Maybe I need to take up yoga? Cheers
EA

 

If I decide to do FI and don't purchase another car in the near future (I'm not tellin' hehe), I'd definately go turbo. I'm not a big SC fan. I actually don't like twin turbo rigs though, I prefer single.

I'd also likely hold out for HKS to make a kit, not that I have anything against Greddy.

 

A mild SC setup is easier to install, maintain, and tune than turboing an NA car my opinion.

I've had a turbo Honda, turbo Eclipse, and a supercharged Camaro. I was much easier slapping a supercharger on the Camaro and gettin' crazy with no troubles over trying to get my built Honda to run right when I wanted to drive it.

I also had a turbo Eclipse with lots of mods, while I never had any reliabilty probs and the car was fast, I eventually reached a state where I had to make adjustments for the weather and other conditions. Overall, I loved having a factory turbo car upgraded.

While I thought it was great fun at the time to constantly test and tune on those turbo cars, I wouldn't want to do it on a Z. In fact, I don't think I'd ever turbo another NA car again, the computer, motor, fuel system, etc. just isn't made for it. The only way I would do it, is if I was a guy like you with my own shop.

 

No, I'm saying you're biased tuner who is skewing your arguments to suit your preconceived conclusions.

And I'm not hyping ATI because I own a Procharger. I had two twin turbos before this (one stock and one heavily modded) and have driven lots of turbo cars over the years. They are invariably harder to launch due to turbo lag. They invariably require a bit of anticipation when driving hard on the street to allow for the lag (no mater how small). They invariably cost you responsiveness at low revs. And they offer that mindlessly seductive appeal of just turning up the boost to 12, 15 or 18 psi with the turn of a **** or bost controller. But if you haven't invested the $5 to $15 k it takes to make the motor withstand that kind of boost (and 95% of the peolple who read these posts and go do it won't) you're not going to do it for long.

Hey, the Procharger's noisier, has belts to hassle with and it's own oil supply to change that's hard to reach. And none of us know how it's going to hold up in the long run. It aint perfect. But seeing your arguments about imagined hp loss and torque loss with it are unfathomable to me as it simply clearly demonstrates that you've never driven a 350 with one. The car is stronger across the band and snaps your head against the hedrest with an immediacy to throttle inputs at low to moderate revs that NO turbo car can match.

That's why posts like yours get under my skin a bit. Too many people post around here on the basis of theory and interpolation. Drive an ATI Z and a Greddy Z when it's available and draw a rational conclusion - but please dont anticipate the outcome and offer up conclusions on the basis of zero direct expereince with either in this car. Every time I push the go pedal my butt tells that in comparison to stock and my last 2 Zs and every other turbo I've driven your theories on the ATI's effects on this car are so off base as to be unfathomable.

joe

 

Phunk

A simple question. Are you a Greddy dealer?

 

Yes, I am a dealer with direct and distributor accounts giving me access to products of all walks of manufacturers and could sell you any part or kit that you desire... if i was so inclined.

 

At first that sounds like its a bad thing or something... to argue in defense to your points. Then I realized that its pretty normal. Amazing how intimidating tone and use of vocabulary can make a normal thing appear wrong. Remember Joe... its all my personal opinion your argueing with. If your trying to win over people to help justify your decision that you made yourself... without test driving a TT 350z yourself as well, then start telling us why your SC is so great!

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And I'm not hyping ATI because I own a Procharger. I had two twin turbos before this (one stock and one heavily modded) and have driven lots of turbo cars over the years. They are invariably harder to launch due to turbo lag. They invariably require a bit of anticipation when driving hard on the street to allow for the lag (no mater how small). They invariably cost you responsiveness at low revs. And they offer that mindlessly seductive appeal of just turning up the boost to 12, 15 or 18 psi with the turn of a **** or bost controller. But if you haven't invested the $5 to $15 k it takes to make the motor withstand that kind of boost (and 95% of the peolple who read these posts and go do it won't) you're not going to do it for long.

Launcing a car is driver skill, regardless of FI style. Perhaps you had so much trouble launching your twin turbo because (well I am assuming you mean a 300ZX TT) those cars are very well known for being impossible off the line. Yes they cost you response at low revs... but this is a 350z, not a civic. It already has decent response at low revs. I guess if you like the instant torque offered in such cars as a Viper or Corvette, or even a Z28... then perhaps the supercharged 350z is the best to emulate this. I personally dont need it.

Another thing to consider in this arguement is that a factory 350z engine is considered to be a high compression engine. Have you ever driven a NA engine with turbos on it? It drives a bit different then a factory turbo car. A NA engine with turbos on it maintains its original throttle response, which is no where near as bad as a factory turbo car. I know what your TT 300ZX drove like, cause I have driven them. Hell, a friend and I just finished building a new engine for his.

Adjustable boost is a good thing. If you cant handle the responsibility of having cabin adjustable boost, then use a manual controller under the hood. Its very nice especially for the days when you decide to go ahead and put a little race gas in the car.

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Hey, the Procharger's noisier, has belts to hassle with and it's own oil supply to change that's hard to reach. And none of us know how it's going to hold up in the long run. It aint perfect. But seeing your arguments about imagined hp loss and torque loss with it are unfathomable to me as it simply clearly demonstrates that you've never driven a 350 with one. The car is stronger across the band and snaps your head against the hedrest with an immediacy to throttle inputs at low to moderate revs that NO turbo car can match.

Hmm... its only common sense that something crank driven would reduce net HP gains. Not sure how that is so "unfathomable"

As to what you have used to define "throttle response"... yes this is one of the great benefits of a supercharged car. Its essentially makes the engine feel like a bigger engine. Car just feels like it has a lot more motivation to go. This is not a characteristic of a turbo system where the car drives pretty much the same all the time, unless you get on it quite a bit.

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That's why posts like yours get under my skin a bit. Too many people post around here on the basis of theory and interpolation.

There is a fine line between theory and well known facts.

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Drive an ATI Z and a Greddy Z when it's available and draw a rational conclusion - but please dont anticipate the outcome and offer up conclusions on the basis of zero direct expereince with either in this car.

Does something make you think that a supercharger or turbo charger will act differently just because its on a 350z? Sorry... I personally do not need to drive both to come to my conclusion. However your recommendation would be great for people that are not exposed to these things daily. I would have to also support that recommendation and I also feel that everyone should come to their own personal conclusion. I never asked anyone to follow me, I just offered up why I came to the conclusion that I did.

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Every time I push the go pedal my butt tells that in comparison to stock and my last 2 Zs and every other turbo I've driven your theories on the ATI's effects on this car are so off base as to be unfathomable.

Ok.... I guess if I was in the middle of driving a SC'd 350z, the last thing going thru my mind would be the parastic drag on my engine. So while I cant relate, I think I can understand. Unless you are refering to something else??? I am not sure, you didnt go into any detail. Maybe you should clarify where I am wrong to help guide other readers here? With no explanations to follow an accusation of innaccuracy... a real defensive is a reasonable expectation. Maybe I can even learn something from you other than just think you dont like what I say cause it conflicts with your already made purchase?