Modified Revup Oil pump with billet gears
 

Hey guys,

I just wanted to share some info on the Revup oil pump I had modified for my setup. I didn't want to dive into the DRY Sump boat just yet. My goal was to be able to rev up to around 8600-9k RPMs. With knowing that the stock pumps couldn't handle or maintain those levels over a period of time, I got in touch with one my good friends, to see what we could do.

So, here is the break down of the revup pump. This one is brand new out the box from Nissan.

This is a result of the OE chamfer on the gear. There's a little ridge where they tried to brake the corner with a grinder. Leaving small impressions circularly.

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...35239877_n.jpg

This is one of the newer designs. Quite efficient. Nissan is actually using the chamfered 45 method on the edge. That's something we see in a lot of newer pump designs. They took it only half way. In the process of chamfering the edge they created a lip.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...18054068_n.jpg

Raised lip only on 1 surface. Whoops

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...01960415_n.jpg

Pump exit location. Flow cavitation issues with this particular spot. Nissan radius half of the outlet, but cannot get the front corner due to the angle. Needs to be done by hand. Far to much work for the factory clowns.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...93480006_n.jpg

Very nice Teardrop from the factory. Won't need any work on entry.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...91310980_n.jpg

This is the OE chamfer. You can see closely the burs left that are riding on the housing edge. They will come off under use, but at the expense of moving debris and the potential for damage on the inner surfaces. These need to be removed in the vibratory.

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...07674817_n.jpg

I'll post the pics of the modified pump shortly.


Regards,
Jeremiah

Nice, bump for props

Now the VQ35 Oil Pump Completed. Was able to find 8% more flow at higher RPM. I'm confident we can maintain 8500RPM without cavitation!

The finish on the pump shows a circular cutter of sorts. Almost lookes like a lathe or very large cutter. What Nissan managed to do is create a surface which didn't seal very well to the backing plate. I've hand dressed on a stone the housing as best as possible. I was able to amost get the housing to hold 20" of vaccum where I could only previously get 2-5". This resulted in a larger flow volume at higher RPM. With a better seal here we are not losing flow volume through bleed off.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...95166555_n.jpg

All Sharp Edges were broken and reliefs fixed and dressed. You can see some of the larger scratches on the face of the housing in this picture. Imagine that one particular scratch and that was the entire surface of the housing.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...22155792_n.jpg

Backing plate is refinished to an almost clearcoat like finish/texture. Surface finish under 1Ra.

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...38679937_n.jpg

Tear Dropped and radius exit. Finishing what Nissan started.

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...46429523_n.jpg

Gearset under 1 Ra....Was previously the equivalent of a 400 grit sandpaper finish.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...77792853_n.jpg

Added Radius to front Edge and larger relief in the base. Was previously riding on the housing.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...69569164_n.jpg

Thanks for reading. I hope this info is helpful for those of you in the same position I am or if you wanting a pump that will allow you to rev a bit higher than stock.

Regards,
Jeremiah

I love this, I am in for results!

Results so far for the VQ35 Oil Pump Revup model.

We were able to find 8% more flow at higher RPM. I'm confident we can maintain 8500RPM without cavitation!

So silly question, why not use a hr pump and just have new gears made to handle the rpm? I've heard that it's made of softer materiel than the revups, but on the hr with less vibrations it's good up to ~9000rpm. So harder gears in a hr oil pump would get you there right?

I'm not knocking, what you've done is fabulous and I give you props for laying the ground work.

Honestly it keeps cost done for anyone wanting to due this mod. The mod is $395, where as if I did custom gears, I'd be spending over a 1k due to cost having to have someone machine the gears, draw them, make sure they work and clearances are in check. Most people on this forum will opt for this over the custom gears and two it's just financially a better route to go. This setup will definitely work better than stock and you can see the difference in the before and after.

Interesting , I need to pull one apart and have fun prior to my build

I can get one done for you if you'd like. PM me if interested. I would do a new pump honestly as you don't know how much material may be gone from clearances or extra material.

Regardless let me know

Jeremiah

I will talk with the engine builder and see what they think, I am planning on revving to 8200 all day long, this may just increase my margin for error a bit.

You definitely won't have that problem with running this mod. We have done quite a few Supra's and GTR's as well. Figured if it worked for the those, we could find some improvements with the VQ revup pump.

Let me know, I'll get you taken care of.

Hmmm so good to ~8500 rpm right? I'll have to remember this.

How do you think your Modified Pump compares to the Cosworth Pump?

Another awesome innovation.

Any plans on selling this in the market?

Yes sir, I needed as much RPM as I could get without going drysump. With the twin 67mm turbo kit I have the more right I can go the better, power just like to keep climbing.

To answer it honestly, I haven't tested it against the Cosworth pump. I'm just stating what my pump is capable of. Pricing is very similar, we are pleased with our results though. This just another avenue VQ guys can go. If I could get a Cosworth for testing, I would test it against ours.

Yes, My cost on Revup pump + $395. Looking to get a vendor licenses, so I can do it the right for the community.

Great job on the pump s blueprinting mate ! Will you do the same to your block & heads !

Thanks man. Heads and block are already done. I will be doing another setup later this year.

I ll look forward to that thread for sure .

Do you have a thread on the Engine Build ! New here fella . Hey forget it , just found it .

A little more on the pump comparing it to the Cosworth.

After reading the insert about the Cosworth here:

Cosworth Pump

This in response to that article:

Hope this helps more.

Jeremiah

Good post and and good thread. Sub'd.

I am curious to find your results in use. Since you have tested it to have greater output at the higher RPMs, then your improvements must have been much needed since you didnt change displacement and I assume measured output at the same RPMs for comparison.

I know of some guys that tried reworking that pump. I am told that they were steel sleeving the housing while they were at it. The pumps life was extended in their road racing application but it was ultimately still failing too much and they went dry sump.

JWT expressed to me that they believe the failure has more to do with harmonic forces transferred into the pumps, and that ultimately the setup is failure prone. This would also possibly be why Nissan found it prudent to take the oil pump off the crankshaft on the VR38. Although I am sure that it could also be partly motivated by how they wanted a second stage of the pump for the turbo oil drains.

For my 370z, I am trying to put a VR38 oil pump on my VHR motor! Not an easy task.. crankshaft modifications required.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this info! I'm still curious though to see how your modified RevUp pump performs compared to the Cosworth and Nismo pumps.:p

Another issue is that the mounting points for the HR pump don't quite match up on the DE motor. One of the holes is slightly off.

You are welcome. If I had both to test against, I would definitely show the differences. This pump takes the upgraded pump most 03-05 DE guys do, and build up on it from there. The Nismo pump quite a bit of loot and I'm comfortable saying most of us are not going to need more than 8500rpms. My original goal was to spin to 10k with my setup, but after looking at the build and what I was doing, 8500-9000rpms is fine. The Cosworth pump and our pump is basically in many ways the same in what we are trying to accomplish. I'd like to get a Cosworth in my hands so I could see just how much different our two upgraded pumps look side by side.

For builds looking for an oil pump that will perform at higher levels and not break your bank, this is easily the way to go.

Is the cosworth pump a modified stock one or is it new cast housings and new gears?

I think it's a modified stock one. There was a thread on another site talking about the pump a while back. I'll see what I can find on it and post it here.

Found it:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...Up-Part-1.aspx

REVUP oil pump and basically the same thing we do to our pump. Of course there are few things here and there we may do different, since I don't know their actual process.

Cosworth pump is just a revup pump with low friction coating applied... waste of money. This is a reasonable price, but still I'd like to see chromoly gears be offered by someone. I don't see how it could cost $1,000 per gear... but then again I haven't called to ask pricing.

Funny you should mention that. I am actually working on billet gears now for the revup pumps. As soon as I have more data to pass along, I will let you guys know.


Jeremiah

Will check it out . Thanx for commitment !

New pump is here, so now I can start pulling it a part to draw the gears and see what is possible with billet gears. This option will most likely put pricing between the cosworth/my own and the nismo pump. I hoping to come under the amount of the nismo pump, but it all depends on the amount of people interested in a billet gear oil pump. I'll keep everyone updated.

Keep it up! We need someone to master the VQ oil pumps. Have you been following Frontline Fabrications project on the billet 4G oil pumps? Check it out on their facebook page if you havent seen it. You would probably find it very interesting.

I wish I knew more about these oil pumps and their characteristics and metallurgy.

I haven't checked them out. I've been off Facebook for a little while. Tired of seeing everyone's drama right now haha. Anyway, the gears are being drawn at the current stage. Most likely will be doing EMD with the gears as it will be more precise. They need to be +/- .0005, so not a lot of room for error. Pretty excited being able to get ball rolling after a few little set backs.


If anyone knows Josh Bloys, if you don't mind direct him to this thread.

Regards,
Jeremiah

tagged an great work keep it up. an i would like to add one to my shelf once u are ready to share.

Thank you sir. Definitely working on it! Sounds good, I'll have all the details once the drawings are finished and I have tested the pieces in the pump. I think you guys will be happy. I know I will be, means not spending 10k for completed drysump system haha.

yea i cant do 10k lol. but for an auto x car going up to that rev will keep me from bouncing of the rev limiter.

You and a lot of us. I think without the billet gears the pump would be fine, but the extra security and not having to worry about the gears is also nice.

yea i prefer safety lol i will pay the little more for it.

Sorry guys, things have taken a turn for the worst for a little it looks. The plan is still moving forward just not as fast as I'd like it.

I was in a motorcycle accident a few weeks back and broke my wrist. I have a good bit recovery to overcome. I do have someone working on the drawings for me while I'm down.

Thanks for patients and know I'm still working to make this a possibility.

Regards,
Jeremiah

Hope you feel better!

Thanks man.....did you get the pic of my wrist the other day?

wow man take your time. health first.

Damn.....similar thing happened to Eddie of Dynosty, back then Injected Performance, while they had my car four years ago.

Just glad it wasn't your head........

hope recovery goes well

Alright guys, I know you all are wanting some kind of update. Nothing big yet, but we are back working on the gears. Starting to get some use out of my hand after the surgery. Still going to take some time. I don't want you guys thinking this project is a bust. Definitely more to this thing than just drawing it up and cutting the parts.

Sn: Will be working on some billet valve covers as well. That way we can get rid of those plastic covers we have. So that's the two projects I have going for the 350z community.

Jeremiah

Id love a set of billet valve covers, and move the oil fill cap...

+1 on the valve covers

good luck with the hand :thumbup:

Where would you suggest? We were thinking of making the extension removable. Maybe even move it to the passenger side valve cover. Still debating and would be more cost effective.

EZG, thanks man. Go next week to the doc to see the progress.

On topic, the outer gear is drawn, so now all we have to do is draw inner gear. Get the proto made and test, then make necessary changes. Slow process with everything going on, but at least we moving forward and not stagnate.

Yeah passenger side or a lower profile. it would be nice to have provisions for An fittings as well.

Oh okay, actually what we are thinking about doing is making the tube detachable. That way it's high to fill the oil and when done take it off and screw the cap on. That way it works with different intake manifolds. As for the AN provisions, more than likely it will be -10AN, if people want to use small size or stock like plumbing then they can with an adapter. We'd supply the hosing connecting the two covers in the front.

Yep sounds good to me

sounds great