nicolaycastro

iTrader: (3)

here is the link for those who did not know this:

https://my350z.com/forum/announcement.php?f=363

hfm

iTrader: (1)

Your link has been disabled.

Here is my thread on this subject almost two years ago:

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ight=group+buy

Group buys were allowed from that point on. Suddenly, effective March 28, 2005, this has changed. I'd like to know why.

Many people spent a lot of time discussing this issue before and now the policy has changed again, with the threat of banning. Moderators, please advise. Thank you.

nicolaycastro

iTrader: (3)

I dont know the link works for me, but I still would like to have an answer. What about if I find a group buy, for a product that not even a sponsor/vendor is offering?

Z BOY

iTrader: (41)

it prolly is about money and free advertising. what's to prevent someone secretly associated with a vendor from coming on the site and organizing a gb?

Brandon@Forged

GodZilla moved the forum section Group Buys from the Private Classifieds section to the Archives section and in that Group Buys section he posted an announcement regarding this, it was closed before I made that announcement, I just did it in Private Classifieds so everyone would see it. Apparently, the time GodZilla had set for the Announcement to run wasn't long enough or a few of you would know what's going on.

And zboy is correct. It takes money to maintain this site...alot of it. So we need to keep the sponsors we have and get as many as we can. You guy's wouldn't think it costs very much to maintain this site, just trust me, it takes quite a bit of cash to do so.

hfm

iTrader: (1)

The money issue was brought up before and the consensus was that this site is members first, vendors, site owners/moderators second.

This policy change is bad news for all members. The moment bannings take place because of something like this, people need to re-evaluate whether other sites are more appropriate.

I recall self-banning myself from posting on this forum in protest of this kind of policy for almost a half-year. I decided to return in part due to the friends I'm able to talk with over this forum and in part due to the information available on this forum. And, from recollection, the policy I was protesting was reversed.

Information these days is pretty repetitive and redundant. I frequent the forum for the politics section, the So. Cal. section for events and canyon runs and for the occasional vendor purchases. In short, I don't have as much reason to stay with this site anymore so than go to another. And, I think my situation is similar to many others.

You folks are risking membership loss with this type of policy. And, members deserve more of an explanation. Including responding to these questions:

1. What history exists of members abusing group buys through some secret dealings with a non-paying vendor that supports this change?

2. How does this decision increase revenue to keep the site up?

3. Who made this decision.

4. Why weren't members consulted in anyway on this policy change?

Your responses are appreciated.

Dr Bonz

iTrader: (1)

Niss350ztt, I just posted in defense of one of your policies in another thread (the one about the limiting of sigs.).

Now I read THIS!

One of the BEST parts of this board is the fact that we, as fellow Z enthusiasts can exchange knowledge and get information about things we can do with/to our cars. The Group Buy is the epitome of this. It allows us to discuss, tear apart (for better or worse) each mod or idea, then allows us to get GREAT DEALS on these mods.

I can say that I would NEVER have modded my car were it not for all of the GB's I was able to participate in here. And in doing these mods, I have always been able to come back here with my now famous write ups and DIY's with pictures and instructions.

I did not know about this policy before now.

I can tell you this. As a CHARTER MEMBER (here longer than just about any of you) and one who has both ORGANIZED and PARTICIPATED in several GB's, I will personally put on a crusade to get this reversed or simply go elsewhere!

Trust me on this.

Do you really want to **** off all of us long standing members who have put our hearts into this site to make it what it is today? Doing this will leave you with the tens of thousands of occasional members who come on here to write off-topic posts about their girlfriends or about what club they are going to go to that night.

HFM is EXACTLY right. This site was originally founded by US, it's members. Not any of the mods or Tako. It was always supposed to be about THE MEMBERS first THEN the sponsers/vendors. Whenever the two would come into conflict of any kind, the MEMBERS won out since it was US who made this place what it is.

I ask you to get together with the other mods and the admins and discuss this and consider where this site came from. Please get back to us on this after you have done so.

zand02max

iTrader: (22)

Once again it comes down to two words, well okay one, MONEY!

Do other Z forums have this policy?

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Doc,

I'm glad you saw/see the light.

There are two types of webboards, those based on the members of the community and those commercially oriented. This board was and to some extent is still a "member" board. Now with this and other policies of late, it's drifting toward commercialism.

I thought it was the support and encouragement of the members that convinced the owner to upgrade it and take it seriously. Apparently it was the almighty $ that did it.

I second the Doc's suggestion that the owner and mods of this board get together and recognize how MY350Z got to where it is today and decide which direction it's going. As of today, it's taking giant steps backward because of policies that favor the "sponsors", not the members.

Personally, I have nothing against the sponsors and the concept of sponsorship. For the most part they offer services and products that we're all interested in. But to give them exclusive control of the "product" content of this board will ultimately destroy it and drive the members away.

Over the years, I've abandoned more than one website because of the deluge of pop-ups and banners. Please don't make MY350Z another on that list.

Thanks,
Dave

Brandon@Forged

Understand, that banning is the last resort. I said you have 3 chances, after that, when you know it is not allowed and still do it, you will be banned.

We're risking membership? Maybe. There is a bigger risk to worry about, the risk of the site not getting money from anywhere to keep it afloat.

1.) It was happening quite often.
2.) It took away the possibility for sponsors to lose money to potential non-paying vendors that came on here to make a quick buck.
3.) The my350z.com staff.
4.) They were, I already mentioned this, there was an announcement before I made my announcement.

Brandon@Forged

I understand that people want to have discounts on buying in bulk of a part, heck, even I do. But, like I said, we don't know who is who, so we cannot have potential non-paying vendors starting a group buys on here.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Yes, we realize that this site is as big as it is because of the mass of members, and we appreciate all of the posting everyone does.

I agree, that this site is made by it's members...but, it takes money to run this site. Do you really want this site to become a paysite? I don't. I would rather just get more sponsors.

I'll post a thread on it and see what the responses are. I agree with not allowing group buy's (you can still get a group buy through the sponsors).

Brandon@Forged

No they do not, however, I have posted something on this on tech and the admin over there agrees with me and said they will implement it later on.

Brandon@Forged

I ask you, can the support and encouragement of the members pay for the new server? No... Did it need to be upgraded? Well...look at how fast it loads now, so yes.

The sponsors weren't complaining. We realized that if we did not do something, that these private non-paying vendor group buys would continue and we may lose sponsors from this.

Z BOY

iTrader: (41)

can anyone think of a way to verify that people who want to organize a private gb are not secretly in cahoots to the vendor? just tryin to problem solve.

GodZilla

Group buys.

First off you cant compare this site to other Z sites. Its like comparing a book to a library. Show me another Z Site that has this many posts, this many members, this much traffic then we can compare.

Will it Group buys come back? Maybe but in a different manor and that is still under discussion.

There are several reasons they were taken off
1) Some people abused the system using it more as a way to get their business started.
2) It had an impact on website sponsorship
3) Some of the GB were not ran correctly

2 years ago the rules were different. The site wasnt nearly as active also the much required maintenance, bandwidth, etc. was not needed then. Therefore keeping the site running didnt cost much money or time at all. Over 32000 people have become members since then.

[quote]
There are two types of webboards, those based on the members of the community and those commercially oriented. This board was and to some extent is still a "member" board. Now with this and other policies of late, it's drifting toward commercialism.
[quote]

Yes I agree that there are 2 types of boards but our intentions still remain the same keeping the webboard based on the community. You have to remember the community is paying nothing to keep it running. Funding the site based on personal investments and sponsorship. However, there comes a time where costs can be more than sponsorship and personal investments have to offer.

Ask any of the other websites similar to this and Im sure they will tell you the same it costs a lot to maintain their website (Time and money). You can easily tell this by seeing the sites with Sponsors, Google ads and links on the site for to become sponsors.

Brandon@Forged

Not that I can think of. Even if they are a member for a long time, who's to say they aren't working for a non-paying vendor and just setting up the GB for them?

JCat

iTrader: (4)

I visit all the forums....and I encourage all forum members to do so. I'd be a fool if I assigned my allegiance to this one over the other four.

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Kyle and nis350ztt,

Thanks for responding to our concerns - that is one pleasantly positive change that we seen here over the last couple of months.

We certainly don't mean to pick on you guys, we just want another viewpoint to be heard and considered. You have to realize for those of us "out of the loop", perception is reality. I've been down this road with another site a few years ago and it all looks way too familiar.

Personally, I would have been willing to pay a subscription fee. Unfortunately, I believe a lot of other members would not have paid and would have left. Ultimately resulting in even more "sponsorship", less paying members and eventually a slow death. (like I said, I've been down this road before...)

We all need to keep in mind that member support and commercialization must be balanced. Too much commercialization and you drive away members. With less members, the site becomes less attractive to sponsors. Why do you think nobody watches network TV anymore?

Thanks again and keep up the good work,
Dave

nicolaycastro

iTrader: (3)

one more solution could be to let long time members or members how you kind of know are setting up a group buy for the good reason, do it, and also just to make sure just allow certain number of group buys per month or something...

35ounces

iTrader: (5)

FYI: on motoring you have to post who the vendor is when you start a personal GB. Simple enough.