I just got my car back Tuesday, for synthetic oil change, boost controller, and etc..., and we are running 12.5 psi witht he Greddy Spec B. The car has helix test pipes and Injen SES Exhaust. With an aggressive gain, the car pulls extremly hard. I have to lay on the throttle in 1st, 2nd, and some care in 3rd, on street 255/45 18" nittos 555. Im still using the stock fuel and timming map so at WOT and max boost, im running dirty rich at 10.4 A/F on the driver side. Once Autologic gets their dyno up, i should be the first car on and getting a few new maps. For now... the engine spins soo sooo smoothly, the ATS clutch works well but i have found it slipping at WOT runs in 4th and 5th. Im not sure if its because the clutch isnt hot enough because these are all freeway runs from 3rd gear. Maybe i need heat them up with some more work with the left foot first next time. The APS kit has been performing very well. I do wish i had known the wastegate actuators and springs needed to be upgraded to run anything over 12 psi... its going to be a pain to get to them now.

 

Whats the trick to setting up the actuators?? I am not familiar at all with internal wastegates. Are there any documents out there on how to do it?

Chris

 

Hmm. slipping@WOT on the ATS clutch. Did you follow the ATS break in recomendations?
I read my English instructions and they seem pretty **** about break-in proceedures.

 

I'll see if I can provide some part numbers for you guys - give me a day or two and I'll get the info for you.

Peter

 

Good to hear.


I'm surprised that some of you guys did not know this. I don't know of any turbo boost control actuator that has an infinite range of pressure control, the same equally applies to remote wategate springs.

If you want higher boost at some point the wategate spring will need relacing with a stronger spring to run higher boost pressure - nothing new here this has applied as farback as I can remember, at least 30 years or so.

Peter

 

You have PM

 

You have now also.

Peter

 

Even my car hard to get 12PSI Boost
What i did I just removed " Y " pipe and Cat Back out
I just make a 50* dum pipe connecting to Test Pipe
like Open header than I can have 12PSI Boost with Nitrous shot....
right now catback with Greddy E01 Boost controller I can't get more than 10PSI ,,,,,,,,

 

You won't get more than 12 PSI boost under any operating condition with the base boost control actuators - the base boost control actuators were not designed for higher than 12 PSI turbo pressure.

Peter

 

OK, I think I almost understand all (or at least most) of this. The 'stock' actuators are rated at 12lbs? Then, the boost solenoid modulates to control boost BELOW this 12 lbs max? So, therfore, if we want to run 15lbs we would need a minimum of a 15 lb acutator that can be controlled below 15 lbs?

If the APS kit is designed to run at ~9psi out of the box, with a max 12psi with fuel upgrades then it makes sense to use a 12lb actuator. However, I guess we were all a little misled when we heard all the hype of the max availible power of the turbos and the intercoolers, I never read that the actuators had to be upgraded to reach these levels, and unfortunatly, I am fairly new to turbo charging and I didn't know this! That being said, part numbers would be great so we can get the right actuators, before the installs!

 

APS, you guys should get in the business of selling reasonably priced upgrade packages for your kits if they're popular enough.

I'm betting one day I'll want to upgrade my ST kit without getting too custom.

 

Kev...

You're close, but to clarify, the actuator/external wastegate springs are set at a certain stiffness, so as to oppose a certain psi of pressure. That pressure comes from the intake manifold, where you develop the boost. Once that pressure is large enough, it compresses the spring and opens the wastegate, where the gas bypasses the turbine and 'goes around it'; at this point no more energy is spent spinning up the turbine/compressor, hence no more boost is developed. For example, the PE/IHI 1420 turbochargers come with a .3 bar spring, and that's how much boost they will develop if oyu directly connect the actuator ports to, in PE's case, the nipple in the pre-TB/post-MAF sensor nipple. The job of a boost controller is to essentially sit in between the manifold and the spring, and modulate the pressure that is applied to the wastegate actuator springs; so if you wish to make 8 psi on the same PE turbos, the boost controller will, in essense, delay applying the pressure to the wastegates and opening them until you reach your new desired boost (8psi). So when you reach 8 psi of boost, 4.3 psi is applied to the wastegartes... that's my understanding of the picture.

Now, and i know this is a long asnwer, jsut couldn't stop typing after a certain point, the Garret/APS turbos do not necessarily ship with 8 psi actuator springs, although they may. The reason for this is that a boost controller is included in the kit, so the springs could be be 0.5 bar (7.3psi), 0.4 bar (5.8psi), and the boost controller is just preset to 8.2 psi. The point is, however, that the 'looser' the springs, the harder it is apparently to reach higher boost levels. That's why I upgraded by 4.3psi springs to 7.5 psi springs, so that I can hopefully reach about 16 psi without too many problems...

HTH, and Peter, please correct me if I am wrong.

 

When APS says the base kit can produce up ot 12 psi that means the "base actuator spring + the added pressure " applied by the boost controller.

For example , the spring allows ~6psi, the boost controller at 50% duty cycle can add ~3 extra psi (~psi). With the boost controller @ 100% you get ~12psi. The boost controller basically "re-enforces" the base spring pressure as boost rises.

 

yes it is nothing out of the norm to have to upgrade actuator springs to get higher boost... but i think this is the first application where i have ever had trouble with such low boost. I would be curious to moniter exhaust manifold backpressure on this kit and see whats going on to push the springs open so easily.

"remote" or external wastegates are not quite so prone to this problem probably because of the larger spring and larger diaphram, as I previously stated the 5.5psi springs in my greddy kit are taking me up to 14.5psi of boost with a duty cycle of 72% with a dual solenoid electronic boost controller... i expect to get at least 18psi without having to upgrade the springs.

Peter, BTW, I am not upset with APS or anything, or trying to give you a hard time about it. I just think it would compliment your bragging rights of turbochargers capable of 800hp if you could set us all up with a 100% source and part #'s on the actuators that APS will "support" if you will. That would be extremely kick *** of you guys... If APS is gonna sell turbos that can do it, and a fuel system that can do it (coming soon)... then it would only make sense to have available the components to modify the turbocharger integrated wastegates to actually do it!

 

Correct G3po, the base APS turbo pressure control actuators are rated for 6.5 PSI and controlled via the Unichip control solenoid and with a zero back pressure exhaust system 12 PSI turbo pressure is easily achievable.

As 12 PSI is the absolute limit of the base APS twin turbo fuel supply system the turbo pressure control actuators were purposely designed/specified by APS engineers to accommodate a maximum of 12 PSI turbo pressure, hope this clarifies the boost pressure issue once and for all.

Thanks

Peter

 

(now i am just giving you a hard time)

 

The answer is easy Charles - the actuators we utilise in the base APS twin turbo system are quite soft actuators (on purpose of course).

Charles it's always been APS's intention to supply an APS tested and approved turbo pressure control actuators with the APS big fuel system that will be released in the near future - this is still the case.

Thanks

Peter

 

Are you goin to make them available seperate of your fuel system, or are you going to leave that market open to others?

 

Ok, so....

Our current springs are rated at 6lbs? I got it now!

Thank you all for clarifying this. Now, back to packing for ZdayZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Peter