zul8r

iTrader: (8)

Okay I haven't seen any #'s onthe APS one yet but I know I want one of these kits. Any #'s would be helpful...

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Turbonetics Between 360-380 depending on other mods...at 8 PSI....Full boost between 3200-3800 also depending on mods. Complete bolt in kit...Reflash included with the price...What kind of info are you looking for?

xxlbeerZ

iTrader: (8)

All the TN graphs so far show full boost at 4250+!

APS and TN probably put out the same HP, but the APS has a quicker spool up and a smoother boost curve.

xxlbeerZ

iTrader: (8)

zul8r, other than numbers, you can find a ton of back and forth threads here and on the other board for opinions along with kit comparisons.

Here are some boost graphs for facts. The first pic and the PDF show the Turbonetics kit with only about 2 or 3.5 psi at 3000rpm. The right hand pic shows a fully tuned APS ST kit w/ exhaust hitting full 9psi boost at 2700rpm on out. I need to find another graph that was posted of another APS ST that was hitting full boost just a slightly over 3000rpm.

Basically to me it boils down to this. If you're a show type guy with a smaller budget, and you don't care about things like boost response or underhood temps, buy the TN kit. If you want something that's less show and more go, includes an extra margin of safety, buy the APS kit.

Queue the shakey cam videos showing the inept stock tach.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Here we go again....There are a total of TWO graphs showing full boost at 4k or later...out of ONE HUNDRED + kits on the road both graphs wiht a stock exhuast.... lets not forget the word of at least 10 owners on this board who say its sooner plus the videos I have of it sooner...

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Did you make sure to tell him he can't even hold the boost to redline with the APS kit unless he buys THEIR exhaust for another $1500.

theking

iTrader: (3)

Come on guys. Both you guys contribute great things to this board but this is getting ridiculous!

Can one of the admins make a ST comparison a sticky so we don't have to see this back an forth anymore. I know I don't have to look at the thread but these things are getting in the way of the productive posts that further our knowledge and implementation of high horsepower VQ's. Don't flame me I really do care about all this ST stuff it just seems like it always turns into a "my turbo spoils faster", "can you hold boost to redline", "is there a tuner in your area", "can you get upgraded wastegate springs", etc, etc. Again all you guys contribute something to our FI world but the message gets watered down with all the banter back and forth.

35ounces

iTrader: (5)

I suggest you do your own research and buy the kit that is right for you. If you ask for comparisons between these two kits you will get VERY biased information (and plenty of misinformation). It has become almost ridiculous. That said, there is plenty of information floating around that should help you make an informed decision if you do the research. Good luck and I hope you enjoy whichever kit you select.

xxlbeerZ

iTrader: (8)

The APS ST exhaust is $899 retail.

I think with either kit, or ANY turbo'd NA car for that matter, you will want to upgrade the exhaust for best results. However, with the APS' large downpipe and exit pipe (3.5"), a very free flowing exhaust is important, but there are plenty of exhausts that will work with the kit, just like the TN kit.

With stock exhaust you will still maintain 360+ whp even with the taper, power delivery is still very smooth, and there is plenty of power available down low where you want it.

Guys with an aftermarket exhaust such as Greddy that have been adapted are running more around 380whp. With the APS exhaust, ~390whp seems to be the norm.

Point is, even with stock exhaust and a taper (which I feel is unimportant), the two kits are still comparable peak hp wise, but the APS kit delivers the power much earlier and smoother with stock or aftermarket exhaust.

35ounces

iTrader: (5)

Beerz: give it a break already!

until we see more dynos from both kits you cant really make that spool claim beerz. I could just as easily go post that guys APS ST dyno that shows him getting really low numbers but whats the point - its limited mis-information that helps noone.

xxlbeerZ

iTrader: (8)

If anything, posting that a kit reaches full boost at a certain RPM, when the graphs that have been posted including your own graph show otherwise, is spreading misinformation.

I don't think it's incorrect information, it's using the known good information that's available.

Sure, there is the graph of the APS ST self install which produced low hp results, but there's also plenty of Turbonetics graphs with install problems and less than optimal hp results that could be posted as well. However, horsepower is not in question right now.

I am posting what I consider legitimate results to show spool up/peak boost, something very important when running a large single turbo (if not the most important factor in drivability). Since it's already been established that both kits can produce decent horsepower numbers when installed correctly, I wanted to point out that outside of peak hp, one kit has a huge advantage in the boost curve department.

The three items I posted show boost results/curves for the TN rep and another install, and then APS' results. I could possibly post a fourth graph from zman1910 so you get 2 from each kit, 1 from the company rep, and one from a typical user who had their kit installed by a dealer. I'll ask him for it.

Sorry, but I don't understand how posting factual information is equivalent to posting misinformation. I mean one of the graphs was even provided by the Turbonetics representative who's quoting a boost curve he cannot even attain. Perhaps you should extend your wariness to him.

theking

iTrader: (3)

Give them links and point them to a post. This has been talked about at great length over the last month. Everyone gets the feeling you guys are defending your kits. It's good info, just getting a little drawn out. Thanks for your time and patience for giving us this info, it's just getting repetitive.

STFU Tuning

iTrader: (1)

Is it just me or does the boost on the TN kit look like the wastegate is bleeding too much too early? I'm used to boost ramping up to its preset level and carrying across the board, or until it tapers. It looks like the TN kit is on its way to making full boost around 3500, but then bleeds off and slowly creeps up to full boost after 4000. It really seems like a boost control issue and not necessarily a problem with the kit.

By the way, what turbos are used in the TN and APS ST kits? And what about the APS TT turbos? They look like a GT28R. Can anyone confirm if they are T25 or T3 flanged?

APS is great, but I think its stupid to pay good money for something and have the manufacturer unwilling to give you the specs on the product you bought. Further, I think its rediculous to have to buy a piggyback computer that only a select few are allowed to tune based on how pretty their shop might be. Thats just absurd.

All that said, they both look great, but I lean toward the APS hardware on this one. I'd likely go with a custom Speed Force kit anyways.

taurran

iTrader: (18)

APS ST - GT35R
Turbonetics ST - TN 60-1

Come on XXL. Is that APS's in-house dyno compared to who's? If that's the Turbonetics dyno I'm thinking, it's on stock exhaust. Id really like to see these two kits dynod on the SAME dyno, the SAME day.

As of now with my DC Sports headers with the kit I'm still hitting 8psi before 4k rpms. That will change when I get my stock manifolds dropped back in.

Both kits are good and have their own market niche. I'm going to agree that with the APS ST you get a more 'complete' kit (quasi fuel-return, lower oil pan). But, the turbonetics is putting down the same, if not more, hp at 8psi compared to APS's stock 9psi.

There is no major heat issue with the Turbonetics kit. The only time you'd need be concerned is during prolonged autocross or track conditions. In that case, you'd want to look at a new radiator and oil cooler regardless of which kit you go with.


Basically, go with whichever kit suits your needs better. It's really a tough decision. But, please remember that you might need to drive a bit to get your APS ST tuned if there are no authorized dealers close by.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter if anyone else here goes with Turbonetics to me... I like being the only one in town with the kit.

James@APS

Which specific information are you after? Dyno graphs with power figures are on the APS website with related information.

-James.

STFU Tuning

iTrader: (1)

James,

I'm mainly interested in turbo specs. Compressor and turbine wheel and housings.

Thanks James.

g356gear

iTrader: (12)

APS TT uses GT25/35R

James@APS

Actually the correct turbocharger model designation is a GT28/35R in the twin turbo system - apologies for any previous misguidance.

James

James@APS

STFU Tuning, the Unichip tuning software is available to any professional tuning shop (you don't have to have a pretty shop) with a load based engine or chassis dyno which is really a pre-requisate for tuning/mapping with stand alone or interceptor style engine management systems.

Unichip North America will be happy to assist you should you wish acquire the tuning software and equipment, hope this helps.

James

PS - I love your business trading name.

STFU Tuning

iTrader: (1)

Hahaha... I'm glad you like the name. It was an old joke back in my Audi days and it sort of stuck. Rest assured I'll have to clean it up sooner or later. It is catchy though huh?

I spoke to Unichip North America. They are a nice group of guys. Unfortunatly they are the ones that gave me that impression. I do like the unichip and it sounds to me that the new firmware on it is going to be really nice. My problem is that I do not work out of one place. I travel to different shops, different dynos, and do alot of track side tuning. Many of my customers are road racers and they require alot more from the car than most, therefore making road and trackside tuning a better option. That said, there would be little use for me to spend a ton of money on a dyno that would rarely be used just to be able to get the software to tune one piggyback.

Hopefully they'll change their mind on this. If it was me, I'd care more about the quality and longevity of the tune than whether or not it was tuned on an expensive dyno in a nice facility. Oh well. Currently I am looking into the E-Manage Ultimate and one other solution that was brought to my attention today that I think is the best I've heard so far.

Obviously I'd love an EMS or Motec, but one is not happening yet and the other is too expensive for most.