If you know what your actual ignition timing is under full load/boost can you please post the info by rpm ? What boost level? What octane fuel? I know their is more to it than this basic info but this is a good starting point for most. Thanks!

You can copy this rpm chart to save some typing

2500
3000
3500
4000
4500
5000
5500
6000
6500
7000
7500

 

Perhaps some of the tuners out their could share?

 

its a 3d graph.. it'll be hard for them to give it to you like the way you have showned it.. I guess they can probably give you info on an e-manage unit.. but an actaul fuel map depends on the load to determine what timing at what rpm.

 

Not looking for a full map. Just WOT. Say your boost is set to 100 KPA, your running 93 pump gas, and your WOT. From when you hit full boost to redline what does your timing look like?

 

you'll find that this is some of the information that tuners do not want to openly share on an open forum...i asked a question like this a while back and learned that this info is what you pay for when you have your car tuned!

i run 16psi...under WOT, timing is about 12 degree advance...add timing in towards redline, so by 7000rpm, see about 20 degree advance..this is on 101 octane, i could run more aggressive timing, still trying to be somewhat conservative

 

you are advancing by 8 degrees from about 4000rpm to 7000rpm?

 

+1, think your suppose to be retarding timing

 

its normal to advance timing as RPM increases... which is a long story to explain well and im at work right now.. im sure someone will chime in here.

I just wanted to be sure that I was clear on what he was saying about how rapid he is increasing timing... I dont have a comment for that curve, just wanted to clarify.

 

Yea I fugured none of the retail tuners would chime in easily... However enthusiast/DIY tuners would. Thanks!

The reason I am asking is on my VQ35/30 hybrid at 14psi I am running 14degrees advance when the boost spools to 14psi at 4000rpms stays at 14 till 5000rpms than goes up to 16 at 5500rpm then 18 from 6000 to redline of 7500. I am running a JWT chip in my Maxima with this set up. I asked for a 100oct tune and 14-18 degrees advanced under full load seems like a 93oct tune not a race gas tune. I have a J&S that is not boost retarding and it is not detecting any detonation.

I figured you guys in the 350Z VQ35 world would have some good info to share on your setups. This is above the head of 99.9% of the folks over at Maxima.org

 

Guess it would be to do with the piston moving faster at higher RPM, so if timing stays fixed, spark is 'effectively' fired later in the cycle**; so to compensate, you advance timing to avoid losing power ; careful not to advance too much to avoid detonation of course

** you've in fact altered the relationship between piston movement and wavefront progression

 

With a SC , I retarded timing gradually to 15 degrees advance at 5000rpm . Held it there to redline and 13.5psi . I saw on the OBD that the ECU had advanced the timing 2 degree's after 6000rpm's . WOuld this be some thing to worry about ? And does any one think I should have the ECU flashed to get rid of the aggresive 3rd map in the ECU ?

 

you're not going to get very useful info here unless someone is using a UTEC

stock ecu, and especially a stock ecu with some form of piggyback does not give static timing everytime - it varies based on IPW, fuel pressure, temperature, humidity, how you roll into the throttle, etc etc

There is no magic map - have your car tuned with a reliable tuner, who understands what he is doing, and takes the time to dyno and road tune, and where your numbers end up is where they should be

 

For some this is the best option. Drop the car off and pick it up in a week, turn the key and its done.

For me its the knowledge and adventure of doing it myself that is the fun part. Not to mention it it can be less expensive. Sharing this kind of information amongst enthusuast and do it yourself'ers is a great way for those less experianced to learn. I'm sure some one taught you when you first started out? The information that is available on the web in forums like these makes it much easier for the DIY to acheive the same results as reliable tuners provided they have the time, patience, skill and tools.

 

I was wondering about that. I know the stock ECU would advance/retard timing as neccessary up to +/- 4 degrees (I think it was 4)but with a UTEC or EU if they overrode the stock ECU. Guess the stock ECU is still influencing it.

 

At 12 psi on 93octane at 4500rpm, 14 degrees advanced, progressively ramping up to 18 degrees at 7000. At 15psi on 116 18 degrees advanced at 4500 ramping up to 22 at 7000. Hope I helped.

 

gradually...yes

safer to say...12 degrees, then mostly 14/15 degrees across the line..then gradually adding timing in...i experiemented on the dyno with 3 degrees more..and it still made more power, i backed it off a few degrees to stay safe..the tune was done with 1/2 91, 1/2 101..i run 101 all the time for added safety

 

Like I said though, there are WAY to many variables involved, as I am sure you know. Whether you do it yourself by trial and error (which is how I learned on my own cars), or take it to someone, makes no difference to me - that is totally user preference.

A good starting point is to have a timing map like a mountain - fast ramp up on the east side of the mountain, slow ramp down on the west side, with a peak happening around the 4500-5000 rpm mark. From there, it's all fine tuning based on datalogs, wideband values, and whatever other means your piggyback allows you to moniter.

As for the UTEC question, it allows you to set how sensitive the knock sensor is, as well as how much to retard timing in the event of a knock event.

 

How good is the out the box UTEC knock sensor sensativity setting? Have you ever tested how much of an increase in sensativity it takes to detect the light knock that happens at initial throttle tip in? Or just regular engine noise? Or when you bang shift the trans? A little more sensativity during the first part tuning proccess seems like a good idea.

Thanks for you input!

 

That is one aspect of the UTEC I never touch, no matter what car I am tuning. Despite what people have claimed on a variety of message boards, I have not found the WRX, Evo or Z (the 3 cars I've used a UTEC on) to have knock sensors that are any more or less sensitive than any other car I've ever tuned. If the car is in good running condition, and does not have things not bolted down that should be, etc., the stock sensitivity is more than enough, and has never caused me any issues. What I did change on my car is the retardation that happens as a result of a knock event - I have mine set to (as I recall) -8 degrees.

 

With built motors, cams, etc...you may need to play with the sensativity settings. The out of the box sensativity are very good for stock engines. I trick that Nathan at TXS mentioned to me, is to free rev your engine, while watching the knock count in the logger.. There should be zeros for knock count all the way to redline, when free reving the motor. If the UTEC is counting knock when free reving, then you should reduce the sensativity in the RPM band where the knock occurs. Of course, if you have the Tuner Pro, you can listen to the engine with headphones, and know with certainty.

I agree with Adam on this one. A timing profile will vary dramtically between different cars. It's the same reason I don't believe in mail-order tuning, or preprogrammed EMS's.