VRT/JWT G35 in Sport Compact Car Magazine
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Originally Posted by mraturbo
I was at the at the Sports Compact dyno, it was a smaller dynojet than usual and the car had no traction at all. The car can easily run the high 400 and low 500 WHP with less than one bar.
M
M
Originally Posted by Starchecker
OK, that's what I was wondering, to me it just really stood out as a bad dyno chart compared to every other kit you've put out. With slipping on the dyno, that would definitely explain all the peaks and valleys and the lower numbers.
Oh, BTW, Ed's G35 is in the newest issue of SCC. The issue is hitting the stands as we speak, but some cities are farther behind than others. As of last night, it was not on the stands here in Vegas yet, but I am assuming thats because they are shipped out of Florida. I will check again in a few days.
It depends on how they are strapped down, and whether they are in ground or above ground. Lastly, it depends on the condition of the knurling on the drums. But yes, its trickier to get a good strap, but doable. 
This is another reason I prefer DynoDynamics dynos, with their patented strapping bar/system. Basically, it uses mechanical leverage, to "push" the tires into the rollers, as the car tries to lift up and forward on the dyno. So the more trq you generate, the harder your tires are biting. They also use a twin roller setup, so there is less chance of tire slippage.
This is another reason I prefer DynoDynamics dynos, with their patented strapping bar/system. Basically, it uses mechanical leverage, to "push" the tires into the rollers, as the car tries to lift up and forward on the dyno. So the more trq you generate, the harder your tires are biting. They also use a twin roller setup, so there is less chance of tire slippage.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
It depends on how they are strapped down, and whether they are in ground or above ground. Lastly, it depends on the condition of the knurling on the drums. But yes, its trickier to get a good strap, but doable.
This is another reason I prefer DynoDynamics dynos, with their patented strapping bar/system. Basically, it uses mechanical leverage, to "push" the tires into the rollers, as the car tries to lift up and forward on the dyno. So the more trq you generate, the harder your tires are biting. They also use a twin roller setup, so there is less chance of tire slippage.
This is another reason I prefer DynoDynamics dynos, with their patented strapping bar/system. Basically, it uses mechanical leverage, to "push" the tires into the rollers, as the car tries to lift up and forward on the dyno. So the more trq you generate, the harder your tires are biting. They also use a twin roller setup, so there is less chance of tire slippage.
How are you?
M
Eagle1 Article in Sports Compact Car
Eagle1:
I just read the Review in Sports Compact Car Mag.
Nice interview... Colin Ryan did a super review.
Keep up the good work.
The point the article made was the G35C car is a "Daily Driver" But near the end the article states: And also laps Laguna Seca at one minute, 44 seconds.
Con-Grats
Cheers Amy -
I just read the Review in Sports Compact Car Mag.
Nice interview... Colin Ryan did a super review.
Keep up the good work.
The point the article made was the G35C car is a "Daily Driver" But near the end the article states: And also laps Laguna Seca at one minute, 44 seconds.
Con-Grats
Cheers Amy
-
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Thank you Amy, much appreciated.
Cyp: you should PM MrAturbo for quotes on pricing etc. I think that for 400 at the rear you may want to build the motor. It is a close call, but you will be stressing the internals, especially with turbo power, and your longevity could be an issue on the stock guts. With a built motor you can go to very high levels, certainly levels beyond practical utility. Your lowest power level would be around 400 rwhp. But it costs a fistful of G bills to do it.
Another write up in C16 Autostyle Magazine has been released this week. It also has some pictures from the Cal Speedway.
Cyp: you should PM MrAturbo for quotes on pricing etc. I think that for 400 at the rear you may want to build the motor. It is a close call, but you will be stressing the internals, especially with turbo power, and your longevity could be an issue on the stock guts. With a built motor you can go to very high levels, certainly levels beyond practical utility. Your lowest power level would be around 400 rwhp. But it costs a fistful of G bills to do it.
Another write up in C16 Autostyle Magazine has been released this week. It also has some pictures from the Cal Speedway.
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A suggestion would be to find a dyno that can measure the true output of these cars. There are two issues here; one being slipping, the other is the debate on which type dyno is best to use (I know there is no perfect dyno to use). Some have been critical of the type of dynos used in the past. I know of course no matter what type of dyno you select, there is going to be someone that does not like that particular dyno however I am simply suggesting another type to give a greater amount of people a reference point that they can use. Basically everyone is trying to get a handle on the increased output of these various turbo kits and modified kits.
Again, I want to stress, I have been in the shoes of releasing dyno numbers in articles and know how frustrating it can be to have the internet critics.
Above all, thanks for posting the data. The more info the better for everyone.
Again, I want to stress, I have been in the shoes of releasing dyno numbers in articles and know how frustrating it can be to have the internet critics.
Above all, thanks for posting the data. The more info the better for everyone.
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zland, as always, has a calm and professional perspective on a topic that often brings heat....the "dyno".
The charts that VRT posts are from Jim Wolf's Dynapak dyno, which attaches directly to the wheel hubs. By using that technique, wheel slippage becomes impossible because you do not have rubber to roller contact. Many arguments can be had about what is "real" and what is best or better. What is important is that it be "comparable" from one test to another. In that regard one may then make what ever adjustment one wishes to for arriving at a "true" hp and tq number.
Because there are so many variables that will influence the final number, such as altitude, temperature, humidity, fuel grade, tire type etc etc., the best you are going to get are rough approximations of comparability.
The charts that VRT posts are from Jim Wolf's Dynapak dyno, which attaches directly to the wheel hubs. By using that technique, wheel slippage becomes impossible because you do not have rubber to roller contact. Many arguments can be had about what is "real" and what is best or better. What is important is that it be "comparable" from one test to another. In that regard one may then make what ever adjustment one wishes to for arriving at a "true" hp and tq number.
Because there are so many variables that will influence the final number, such as altitude, temperature, humidity, fuel grade, tire type etc etc., the best you are going to get are rough approximations of comparability.
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Originally Posted by Eagle1
zland, as always, has a calm and professional perspective on a topic that often brings heat....the "dyno".
The charts that VRT posts are from Jim Wolf's Dynapak dyno, which attaches directly to the wheel hubs. By using that technique, wheel slippage becomes impossible because you do not have rubber to roller contact. Many arguments can be had about what is "real" and what is best or better. What is important is that it be "comparable" from one test to another. In that regard one may then make what ever adjustment one wishes to for arriving at a "true" hp and tq number.
Because there are so many variables that will influence the final number, such as altitude, temperature, humidity, fuel grade, tire type etc etc., the best you are going to get are rough approximations of comparability.
The charts that VRT posts are from Jim Wolf's Dynapak dyno, which attaches directly to the wheel hubs. By using that technique, wheel slippage becomes impossible because you do not have rubber to roller contact. Many arguments can be had about what is "real" and what is best or better. What is important is that it be "comparable" from one test to another. In that regard one may then make what ever adjustment one wishes to for arriving at a "true" hp and tq number.
Because there are so many variables that will influence the final number, such as altitude, temperature, humidity, fuel grade, tire type etc etc., the best you are going to get are rough approximations of comparability.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
1:25 at Street of Willow??? You have some excellent driving skills. 
I am sure there is, and was a couple of seconds I left on the table still that test day, but we accomplished what we set out to do. We were just there to shake the car down and work out any bugs that we might have come across, as these were the very first track laps this car had seen since its major overhaul. I wouldn't be to surprised if I dug a little deeper I could come up with about a 1:22ish lap time in Eagle 1's car. Did I mention how much I love Eagle1's car......LOLO Hahahaha.
Originally Posted by Eagle1
Scott Bush driving my car did the 1:25 at Streets. He did the stock G in 1:35 (only two laps because the brakes were not going to be able to take it). He was the test driver for the two cars in the SCCM article. I was 1:30 in my white G. It was my first day in the car and first time on Streets, so I am sure that I can take it down about three seconds now. However, remember, it was Scott's first time in the G also, so I would expect him to be able to take at least two more seconds off his time, especially when you consider he had only driven Streets a total of about 5 or 10 laps previously in his life! Heck, Sharif, he beat Mike Cronin, Jr. who was out there at the same time in his race prepped 350Z by more than a full second, and Mike probably has more than 5,000 laps on that track, and two years of full on Grand Am Cup experience in a 350Z. Mike is a heck of a driver and a very nice guy, btw. He was gracious and enthusiastic about the performance of the VRT G35 with Jim's TT.
The editors said that Scott in the stock G35 was 2 seconds a lap faster than their best driver in an M3 on the Streets course. I was there, I heard him say it. I saw the GPS lap timer print out. So if ever there was proof needed that it is the archer and not the arrow that makes the difference, you have it here. The young man can pilot a car.
However, ahem, I suspect that if Scott was driving my car at CS the spread would be even MORE than 5 seconds, because I "lift" throttle at the end of the front straight from 150mph+ going into the ROVAL, and I know that Scott would keep the hammer down and probably do 150+ all the way through it. (Most of us in the passenger seat would be doing our best Janet Leigh screaming imitation from the shower scene in Psycho at that point!). At 140mph I have to tell you that the diameter of my rear is so tight that it would flatten a BB. To say than I am focused is a major understatement. Scott is probably fiddling with the ***** on the radio. But that is my limit right now for that section of course, I just don't have the skill sets or confidence to take it higher. As it is I was blowing by most of the other cars (Mike A and Scott excepted, and one lad in a specially modified Z06 with a Penske suspension). That driving difference alone would be good for about ten to twenty car lengths per lap just right there. Add to that his superior skills on the infield...and after ten laps and twenty minutes on the track he would be a half lap ahead of me, if not more!
A man has got to know his limitations. My last words are NOT going to be, "Hey guys, watch this!"
The editors said that Scott in the stock G35 was 2 seconds a lap faster than their best driver in an M3 on the Streets course. I was there, I heard him say it. I saw the GPS lap timer print out. So if ever there was proof needed that it is the archer and not the arrow that makes the difference, you have it here. The young man can pilot a car.
However, ahem, I suspect that if Scott was driving my car at CS the spread would be even MORE than 5 seconds, because I "lift" throttle at the end of the front straight from 150mph+ going into the ROVAL, and I know that Scott would keep the hammer down and probably do 150+ all the way through it. (Most of us in the passenger seat would be doing our best Janet Leigh screaming imitation from the shower scene in Psycho at that point!). At 140mph I have to tell you that the diameter of my rear is so tight that it would flatten a BB. To say than I am focused is a major understatement. Scott is probably fiddling with the ***** on the radio. But that is my limit right now for that section of course, I just don't have the skill sets or confidence to take it higher. As it is I was blowing by most of the other cars (Mike A and Scott excepted, and one lad in a specially modified Z06 with a Penske suspension). That driving difference alone would be good for about ten to twenty car lengths per lap just right there. Add to that his superior skills on the infield...and after ten laps and twenty minutes on the track he would be a half lap ahead of me, if not more!
A man has got to know his limitations. My last words are NOT going to be, "Hey guys, watch this!"
Thanks again, Ed. Everyone has their strong points, strengths, or nitch. Weather its a senior position in a well established law firm, or a guy who can drive a car precise and fast, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.
Originally Posted by zland
I did an interview/article with the race team of Performance Nissan (Grand Am cup) and spent the day with the entire team at Willows. Mike is a nice guy and a great driver. Anyone that did a quicker lap time then him on a track he drives often is impressive.
.....(You guys are making me blush)
Last edited by WA2GOOD; May 25, 2006 at 03:23 AM.
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Scott, do you ever go to sleep? What are you doing posting at 3:55AM?
I have an excuse...up at 5 to go to work, but a quickie peek at the web for funsies. On the other end of the clock, though, at 9:30 PM it is time to flop for sleep! You have to pull over for a pit stop once in awhile young man!!!
It is pretty humbling to work on driving, go to race driver school, practice, read, think, plan, etc. and then have a guy little more than half your age step in your car right off the shop floor with a totally new handling package and motor, run five timed laps on a course he is unfamiliar with, and slam a 1:25 lap at Streets, pull in and say "well, the left front damper is not functioning properly and this needs to be tightened and that needs to be loosened and that other thing needs to be adjusted two turns because....", now its your turn.
Just one more thing to add to my list.
But seriously, it is good fun to have quantitatively proven to you what your car can do; it gives one something to work towards for improving skills and technique because you can see that it has been done. You watch how and you have more confidence to push yourself because you know the edge is farther out there than you ever believed or wanted to test on your own. Riding in a car that goes around a track five or ten seconds faster than you have ever driven it is a fabulous learning experience. Especially if it is YOUR car in the hands of a pro. By the way, going around fifteen or twenty seconds faster, which happens with newbies, is not a particularly good way to teach because it mostly just scares the heck out of them and they learn nothing.
I have an excuse...up at 5 to go to work, but a quickie peek at the web for funsies. On the other end of the clock, though, at 9:30 PM it is time to flop for sleep! You have to pull over for a pit stop once in awhile young man!!!
It is pretty humbling to work on driving, go to race driver school, practice, read, think, plan, etc. and then have a guy little more than half your age step in your car right off the shop floor with a totally new handling package and motor, run five timed laps on a course he is unfamiliar with, and slam a 1:25 lap at Streets, pull in and say "well, the left front damper is not functioning properly and this needs to be tightened and that needs to be loosened and that other thing needs to be adjusted two turns because....", now its your turn.
Just one more thing to add to my list.
But seriously, it is good fun to have quantitatively proven to you what your car can do; it gives one something to work towards for improving skills and technique because you can see that it has been done. You watch how and you have more confidence to push yourself because you know the edge is farther out there than you ever believed or wanted to test on your own. Riding in a car that goes around a track five or ten seconds faster than you have ever driven it is a fabulous learning experience. Especially if it is YOUR car in the hands of a pro. By the way, going around fifteen or twenty seconds faster, which happens with newbies, is not a particularly good way to teach because it mostly just scares the heck out of them and they learn nothing.
Originally Posted by zland
Agreed that the hp/tq gain is the real issue + hp/tq numbers under the curve. Problem is trying to get people to focus on those rather than peak numbers.
Let's just say this, anything over 400 WHP and 400 ft/lbs is a fast car. After that, it is up to the driver to lay that power to the pavement on the road race track or drag strip or wherever and drive the car fast.
IMPORTANT: Most Supercars have power ranging from 300 WHP to 550 WHP ( they always give you the crank power though). The stats that are put down in the magazines like Road and Track and Car and Driver are behind the wheel of professionals. Note: Even launching a car for a 0-60 takes mad skills to get anything less than 4.3 seconds unless it is AWD. Had a hopped up EVO and that is easy until the transfer case and clutch burn-up LOL...
We have built the fast cars, now it is up to the driver to handle that power and drive it fast. Fun discussion.
M
Last edited by mraturbo; May 25, 2006 at 07:13 AM.
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It is a good point from you Mike, adding to Zland's.
The data and charts and all that are great, but there is a practical point beyond which it is of diminishing importance. 525 vs 550 rwhp or rwtq becomes less important than WHEN it arrives and how it gets up to there and how long is it sustained, when and how fast does it drop off, and what lag is involved. And then....what attributes does the car possess to harness that power and hook it up to the pavement, slow it down, and pull it through the corners. The art is in the suspension, and then application of the power through it from the skills of the driver to go fast and to do it safely.
The charts and stats are all fascinating, and they are fun, and they give good and relevant information. But at the end of the day, it is all about driving. The car is a tool, an instrument for driving.
The data and charts and all that are great, but there is a practical point beyond which it is of diminishing importance. 525 vs 550 rwhp or rwtq becomes less important than WHEN it arrives and how it gets up to there and how long is it sustained, when and how fast does it drop off, and what lag is involved. And then....what attributes does the car possess to harness that power and hook it up to the pavement, slow it down, and pull it through the corners. The art is in the suspension, and then application of the power through it from the skills of the driver to go fast and to do it safely.
The charts and stats are all fascinating, and they are fun, and they give good and relevant information. But at the end of the day, it is all about driving. The car is a tool, an instrument for driving.
Originally Posted by Eagle1
It is a good point from you Mike, adding to Zland's.
The data and charts and all that are great, but there is a practical point beyond which it is of diminishing importance. 525 vs 550 rwhp or rwtq becomes less important than WHEN it arrives and how it gets up to there and how long is it sustained, when and how fast does it drop off, and what lag is involved. And then....what attributes does the car possess to harness that power and hook it up to the pavement, slow it down, and pull it through the corners. The art is in the suspension, and then application of the power through it from the skills of the driver to go fast and to do it safely.
The charts and stats are all fascinating, and they are fun, and they give good and relevant information. But at the end of the day, it is all about driving. The car is a tool, an instrument for driving.
The data and charts and all that are great, but there is a practical point beyond which it is of diminishing importance. 525 vs 550 rwhp or rwtq becomes less important than WHEN it arrives and how it gets up to there and how long is it sustained, when and how fast does it drop off, and what lag is involved. And then....what attributes does the car possess to harness that power and hook it up to the pavement, slow it down, and pull it through the corners. The art is in the suspension, and then application of the power through it from the skills of the driver to go fast and to do it safely.
The charts and stats are all fascinating, and they are fun, and they give good and relevant information. But at the end of the day, it is all about driving. The car is a tool, an instrument for driving.
Fast Fast Fast...
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Given the demand for the cars, which is considerably greater than the very limited ability to produce them, you might some day want to consider having an interview or checklist or some type of organized and thoughtful intake control over who you make and sell these upgrades to, at least for the FI aspect. This car is a total rocket ship. I drive it very carefully on the street, though the temptation to get on it is certainly there. Having the track orientation and the outlet to "let her buck" it is a wonderful car. But if I was not a track enthusiast who let the car have its "dual life" , the only outlet would be on the streets or highways, and that could be, as they say, a "bad" thing. It might be a good idea to limit sales to people who have been to race driver school, or pledge to go, or who will track the car at least twice a year. Maybe that is getting too much into other people's business (and it certainly is none of my business to poke my nose into it vis a vis your business or that of any other high performance tuner or car builder). But this JWT 530 BB is just an incredible set up, and the private or custom 700 BB kit that you are developing is even more so. I was flat out at CS and your car just waltzed by on the front straight...no driving issue there, just raw power. That 700 BB really has limited application for a street only car, it almost has to be for a track junkie or off road enthusiast. But the real performance elements that help this car perform are in the non-motor modifications that you have come up with. I LOVE the power, please do not get me wrong. It is awesome. But it is going around that Ferrari and Evo on the outside of the high banked turns 1 and 2 at Cal Speedway at 140mph.......while their jaws drop....that has me juiced. The car was on rails in that turn, and not even breaking a sweat there was so much power in reserve, and they were doing all that they could do. That is building a car to me, Mr. A, that is what it is all about. I gotta get you that video, it is SWEET.
I agree with you Ed, but I honestly don't think that it will work that way. I think the best bet is just to make the customer very aware of what they are turning their car into. Most of the people who get these cars have or are interested in tracking them anyways. When they hang around any of the VRT guys, all they hear about is tracking these cars and it gets them interested. At the very least they should be very aware of what the new additions to their car are capable of. You can't change the way people drive, what they want, or the stupid things they may do. The best thing you can do for them is make them aware.