Vortech serp pulleys VS cog pulleys
04-13-2007 | 06:43 PM
#21
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From: council bluffs Ia.
you're talking about psi in the intake manifold, not the blower
it's a different story inside the blower
We are not talking PSI inside the blower . Vortech doesnt claim PSI inside the blower.
Vortch claims the T-trim will make 26psi . Guess what ? Mine can and has made very close to that psi.....NOT INSIDE THE BLOWER.......At the PLENUM . Why ? Because it is being spun to the max rpm that Vortech suggests with out a belt slipping . There is no huge drop in PSI from the END of the blower to the plenum .
My reasoning is a logical reason why you can't make full psi that Vortech says you should be able to build with thier blowers with a serp system . And then be able to make the claimed psi with a cog set up that does slip . Pretty dam simple
You reasoning is a mythical magical lose of psi that cant be explained logically
it's a different story inside the blower
We are not talking PSI inside the blower . Vortech doesnt claim PSI inside the blower.
Vortch claims the T-trim will make 26psi . Guess what ? Mine can and has made very close to that psi.....NOT INSIDE THE BLOWER.......At the PLENUM . Why ? Because it is being spun to the max rpm that Vortech suggests with out a belt slipping . There is no huge drop in PSI from the END of the blower to the plenum .
My reasoning is a logical reason why you can't make full psi that Vortech says you should be able to build with thier blowers with a serp system . And then be able to make the claimed psi with a cog set up that does slip . Pretty dam simple
You reasoning is a mythical magical lose of psi that cant be explained logically
Last edited by booger; 04-13-2007 at 06:45 PM.
04-13-2007 | 06:52 PM
#22
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From: council bluffs Ia.
If you started a thread called "I saw a pink airplane, so all airplanes must be pink" and I disagreed with you, it's kinda lame listening to your outbursts where every 2 posts you say I'm arguing just for the sake of it and to stay out of your thread. Kids act like this when they don't want to share toys with each other, but want to play with everyone else's - get what I'm saying?
You know why I have asked you not to reply . You argue stuff that a 1st grader knows better about . Like I said..you argu just to be agruing and nothing more . You do it all over this site as long as there is someone that will argue back .
Put up or shut up ...Send me your blower and I'll put it on my bracket and log the psi for you . When it makes 20psi or close to it . Then what ? You gonna argue that the air in my part of the country is different than yours ?
You know why I have asked you not to reply . You argue stuff that a 1st grader knows better about . Like I said..you argu just to be agruing and nothing more . You do it all over this site as long as there is someone that will argue back .
Put up or shut up ...Send me your blower and I'll put it on my bracket and log the psi for you . When it makes 20psi or close to it . Then what ? You gonna argue that the air in my part of the country is different than yours ?
04-13-2007 | 07:12 PM
#23
Originally Posted by booger
Your taking a huge guess and you have no idea what preasures would be .
Originally Posted by booger
Vortch claims the T-trim will make 26psi
the blower is a fixed thing
if you put the T-trim on a viper engine (variable) and spun it at the same rpm as you are, it would not make 26 psi at the engine manifold (variable)
however the pressure inside the blower would be different because more CFM is being sucked through the blower due to the more powerfull engine
Originally Posted by booger
Guess what ? Mine can and has made very close to that psi.....NOT INSIDE THE BLOWER.......At the PLENUM . Why ? Because it is being spun to the max rpm that Vortech suggests with out a belt slipping
I really didn't think vortech made their specs about their blowers based on a variable (everyone's intake manifold and engine are different)
I mean.....why would they? They sell blowers by themselves all the time and people need to know those specs to match it up with their engine - info which vortech also supplies
hell, I could try changing my cams, headers, cats, exhaust, manifold, etc back to stock so I can get the vortech to hit 15-16 psi measured at the manifold
Originally Posted by booger
Send me your blower and I'll put it on my bracket and log the psi for you . When it makes 20psi or close to it .
Why don't you just get an S-trim on there instead of trying to tone down the T-trim via bigger pulleys?
Originally Posted by booger
Then what ? You gonna argue that the air in my part of the country is different than yours ?
I'd have no reason to be skeptical at that point
but until you or someone else proves it, I don't think the cog system would make my car suddenly start making 20 psi in the manifold instead of 12 with the S-trim. I can maybe see a 1-2 psi increase though.
Even Vortech has said there is some slip with serpentine belts on their website in their FAQ:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...ed%20Questions
Originally Posted by VORTECH
The only Vortech supercharger designations that may be driven with a cogged type belt drive are heavy duty models. They feature special internal modifications that are compatible with cogged type belt drive systems. There still exists the very real possibility of supercharger damage when using this type of drive, but this special configuration is more tolerant. An inherent design characteristic in serpentine belts is a certain amount of belt slippage. This mainly occurs on deceleration, but may also occur on acceleration if the belt is too loose or if the belt being utilized is not of sufficient width to transmit the horsepower being generated.
Last edited by sentry65; 04-13-2007 at 08:40 PM.
04-13-2007 | 08:33 PM
#24
You guys need to spend more time playing with your cars and less time on the net.
Hay Booger, just for everyones info im making 13.5 PSI with the 2.87 pulley and My Pulley/Belt redesign. This was logged on with the SS Box.
Booger do you have pics of your set up? It would be nice to see.
Thanks
Tim
Hay Booger, just for everyones info im making 13.5 PSI with the 2.87 pulley and My Pulley/Belt redesign. This was logged on with the SS Box.
Booger do you have pics of your set up? It would be nice to see.
Thanks
Tim
04-14-2007 | 04:31 AM
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From: council bluffs Ia.
Originally Posted by TIMROD1011
You guys need to spend more time playing with your cars and less time on the net.
Hay Booger, just for everyones info im making 13.5 PSI with the 2.87 pulley and My Pulley/Belt redesign. This was logged on with the SS Box.
Booger do you have pics of your set up? It would be nice to see.
Thanks
Tim
Hay Booger, just for everyones info im making 13.5 PSI with the 2.87 pulley and My Pulley/Belt redesign. This was logged on with the SS Box.
Booger do you have pics of your set up? It would be nice to see.
Thanks
Tim
04-14-2007 | 04:42 AM
#26
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From: council bluffs Ia.
Originally Posted by sentry65
Yeah that was a guess for the sake of an example. I was just trying to show that the psi in the blower and elsewhere are different. You can measure the blower pressure - it does have a plug to read blower pressure on the front
26 psi inside the blower measured via the plug just mentioned
the blower is a fixed thing
if you put the T-trim on a viper engine (variable) and spun it at the same rpm as you are, it would not make 26 psi at the engine manifold (variable)
however the pressure inside the blower would be different because more CFM is being sucked through the blower due to the more powerfull engine
you mentioned earlier that a larger motor would make more boost . Whats it going to be ? Make up your mind .
wasn't aware that you actually have reached 26 psi at the manifold, last I heard you hit 21.7 psi and stopped at 6690rpms
Where in my post does it say I MADE 26psi ? I said I made close to it . And if I went to 6800 or 7000rpm's it would have been much closer . You love spliting hairs dont oyu ?
I really didn't think vortech made their specs about their blowers based on a variable (everyone's intake manifold and engine are different)
I mean.....why would they? They sell blowers by themselves all the time and people need to know those specs to match it up with their engine - info which vortech also supplies
hell, I could try changing my cams, headers, cats, exhaust, manifold, etc back to stock so I can get the vortech to hit 15-16 psi measured at the manifold
You could try till your blue ion the face . Belt slipage will not allow you to build that much boost . Pretty dam simple
already said I'm not taking my blower off. That's easy for you to sit there saying "just send me your blower" isn't it?
Why don't you just get an S-trim on there instead of trying to tone down the T-trim via bigger pulleys?
no, if that's the case then I'd be wrong
I'd have no reason to be skeptical at that point
but until you or someone else proves it, I don't think the cog system would make my car suddenly start making 20 psi in the manifold instead of 12 with the S-trim. I can maybe see a 1-2 psi increase though.
Even Vortech has said there is some slip with serpentine belts on their website in their FAQ:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...ed%20Questions
26 psi inside the blower measured via the plug just mentioned
the blower is a fixed thing
if you put the T-trim on a viper engine (variable) and spun it at the same rpm as you are, it would not make 26 psi at the engine manifold (variable)
however the pressure inside the blower would be different because more CFM is being sucked through the blower due to the more powerfull engine
you mentioned earlier that a larger motor would make more boost . Whats it going to be ? Make up your mind .
wasn't aware that you actually have reached 26 psi at the manifold, last I heard you hit 21.7 psi and stopped at 6690rpms
Where in my post does it say I MADE 26psi ? I said I made close to it . And if I went to 6800 or 7000rpm's it would have been much closer . You love spliting hairs dont oyu ?
I really didn't think vortech made their specs about their blowers based on a variable (everyone's intake manifold and engine are different)
I mean.....why would they? They sell blowers by themselves all the time and people need to know those specs to match it up with their engine - info which vortech also supplies
hell, I could try changing my cams, headers, cats, exhaust, manifold, etc back to stock so I can get the vortech to hit 15-16 psi measured at the manifold
You could try till your blue ion the face . Belt slipage will not allow you to build that much boost . Pretty dam simple
already said I'm not taking my blower off. That's easy for you to sit there saying "just send me your blower" isn't it?
Why don't you just get an S-trim on there instead of trying to tone down the T-trim via bigger pulleys?
no, if that's the case then I'd be wrong
I'd have no reason to be skeptical at that point
but until you or someone else proves it, I don't think the cog system would make my car suddenly start making 20 psi in the manifold instead of 12 with the S-trim. I can maybe see a 1-2 psi increase though.
Even Vortech has said there is some slip with serpentine belts on their website in their FAQ:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...ed%20Questions
04-14-2007 | 05:02 AM
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From: council bluffs Ia.
Originally Posted by sentry65
how would a smaller engine make the blower reach 20 psi sooner than a bigger engine. That's backwards.
A bigger engine sucks in more air which all has to go through the supercharger that spins at whatever rpm to compress to whatever psi
A bigger engine sucks in more air which all has to go through the supercharger that spins at whatever rpm to compress to whatever psi
Lets explain it to you so maybe you can understand . Hell my 50 year old , G.E.D. educated mind can understand it .
Take two blowers that are exactly the same . Put one on a 3.5 V6 and the other on a 7.0 V8 . Run the motors so the blowers are spinning at the same rpm and blowing the same CMF . Make that CMF just enough so the V6 is running at '0' preasure and '0' vacuum . At that same CMF the V8 will still be running vacuum . Now increase that CMF to the point the V8 is running '0' vacuum and '0' preasure . The V6 will now be under boost . Double the CMF again and both will be in boost but the boost seen by the V6 will be more . Guess what...the V6 is building boost faster than a bigger motor .
In the above post you think the opposite and a later post you think what I just stated . Another example of you arguing just to be arguing . And to try to dominate the thread . WHY ? Ever time I bring up something that goes against a SC , you argue against it . Why ? Both threads where you have refused to see the TRUTH . You try to over take the thread with post after post , trying to split any and all hairs . You try to change the subject and argue another point that has nothing to do with the thread . WHy ?
04-14-2007 | 05:16 AM
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From: council bluffs Ia.
Another thing you keep doing is . You keep saying the PSI at the blower . I dont mention PSI at the blower . Im talking about PSI at the plenum or manifold . I dont give a chit what the PSI is at at the end of the blower . ANd it has nothing to do with Vortech's spec on thier blowers . They say a T -trim makes 26psi . That claim is NOT at the end of the blower . It is at the plenum or manifold . SO please stop refering to PSI in the blower . Keep it at the plenum or manifold so you dont get confused .
And agin...your blower WOULD make 20psi [ or close to it ] if you ran a cog system . No if and or buts about it . With a serp belt you are NOT turning the blower [ with a 2.87 ] at the max rpm suggested because you slip the belt all the way thru the rpm range . If you use Vortech's calculator , it says you should be turning it at or above the 53000rpm suggested . If you were , you would be making 20psi or close to it AT the PLENUM or MANIFOLD .
Believe what you want.....its funny to me that you want to believe differently . And it is also the same for the arguement we had about parasitic hp loss . due to turning the blower . Both are facts and both are true .
And agin...your blower WOULD make 20psi [ or close to it ] if you ran a cog system . No if and or buts about it . With a serp belt you are NOT turning the blower [ with a 2.87 ] at the max rpm suggested because you slip the belt all the way thru the rpm range . If you use Vortech's calculator , it says you should be turning it at or above the 53000rpm suggested . If you were , you would be making 20psi or close to it AT the PLENUM or MANIFOLD .
Believe what you want.....its funny to me that you want to believe differently . And it is also the same for the arguement we had about parasitic hp loss . due to turning the blower . Both are facts and both are true .
Last edited by booger; 04-14-2007 at 05:18 AM.
04-14-2007 | 06:06 AM
#30
Wow. I can't believe I missed this thread.
Sentry I think that a good wat to prove booger right or wrong (not taking sides) would be a simple experiment. A while back someone posted up a pulley that had cross directional grooves in it in order to bite the belt better. Get one of those with the same diameter and put belt dressing on it to make it work even better. If you see the same PSI then booger must have a variable in his setup that makes it different, if you see a higher psi due to reduced slippage then you are wrong.
Simple answer to a online war that has been never ending and needs to be put to rest.
Sentry I think that a good wat to prove booger right or wrong (not taking sides) would be a simple experiment. A while back someone posted up a pulley that had cross directional grooves in it in order to bite the belt better. Get one of those with the same diameter and put belt dressing on it to make it work even better. If you see the same PSI then booger must have a variable in his setup that makes it different, if you see a higher psi due to reduced slippage then you are wrong.
Simple answer to a online war that has been never ending and needs to be put to rest.
04-14-2007 | 07:41 AM
#31
Hay Booger,
I've not had it on the Dyno with this setup.
With the 3.12 pulley and just an OK tune it made 394.4HP/331Tq@ 6400RPM so had a bit lefted in it.
I now have 2.87 pulley and 440cc injectors with a good tune.
much more ovewall power, feels like 30+Hp on the top end. Just a guest.
I've not had it on the Dyno with this setup.
With the 3.12 pulley and just an OK tune it made 394.4HP/331Tq@ 6400RPM so had a bit lefted in it.
I now have 2.87 pulley and 440cc injectors with a good tune.
much more ovewall power, feels like 30+Hp on the top end. Just a guest.
04-14-2007 | 08:58 AM
#32
I actually don't think that if you spin a blower to the max rpm listed, that it will automatically generate the max power the blower is capable of outputting. I think they're seperate issues from the maximum CFM and pressure the blower can handle. I think the max rpm is listed because that's how fast the blower can physically spin without accellerated wear
in the end, an NA engine sucks in what it naturally does to equal 0 boost/vacume no matter how big it is. But the volumes of air it sucks in are different. The blower needs to be properly sized to the engine so that it doesn't exceed the blower specs listed on their site - such as max pressure or max CFM. From what I can tell it's totally up to you what rpm you want to spin the blower at. Which as you spin it more, it will obviously blow more air until you reach the max tolerances of the blower and it's damaged. But if the engine is too big, it will naturally suck in a really high CFM, which will create too high of a pressure for the blower and itwon't spin properly and/or become damaged
I think CFM, pressure, and rpm are all independent from each other when we're talking about different engines. Your engine is a small fit for the T-trim which is why your boost pressure is so much. If your actual engine was bigger, the pressure would be lower and you might be able to get more CFM moving through the blower by spinning the blower more (up until the mas rpm) instead of having to stop at whatever rpm/pulley size combo to not exceed 26 psi
I'd be all over those non-slip pulleys but last I heard they don't fit right and can't quite be machined to fit. None of them are the exact size of 2.87, 3.12, or 3.33 pulleys, since they come in increments of .1
in the end, an NA engine sucks in what it naturally does to equal 0 boost/vacume no matter how big it is. But the volumes of air it sucks in are different. The blower needs to be properly sized to the engine so that it doesn't exceed the blower specs listed on their site - such as max pressure or max CFM. From what I can tell it's totally up to you what rpm you want to spin the blower at. Which as you spin it more, it will obviously blow more air until you reach the max tolerances of the blower and it's damaged. But if the engine is too big, it will naturally suck in a really high CFM, which will create too high of a pressure for the blower and itwon't spin properly and/or become damaged
I think CFM, pressure, and rpm are all independent from each other when we're talking about different engines. Your engine is a small fit for the T-trim which is why your boost pressure is so much. If your actual engine was bigger, the pressure would be lower and you might be able to get more CFM moving through the blower by spinning the blower more (up until the mas rpm) instead of having to stop at whatever rpm/pulley size combo to not exceed 26 psi
I'd be all over those non-slip pulleys but last I heard they don't fit right and can't quite be machined to fit. None of them are the exact size of 2.87, 3.12, or 3.33 pulleys, since they come in increments of .1
Last edited by sentry65; 04-14-2007 at 10:01 AM.
04-14-2007 | 10:11 AM
#34
hmm that's not a bad idea as a test
It'd have to be in a couple weeks though because I'm scheduled to get tuned in CA at GTM the middle of next week.
I could do a before/after dyno though at a local shop when I get back
...but I'm not sure if I'd want that pulley setup permanently though since the mustang guys have reported chewing up belts, even GATES beltes much faster to the point that they end up switching back
so I'm still not sure if I care enough to actually spend time and money finding out when in the end, I probably wouldn't use the pulley anyway - and if it really did give me 1-3 or whatever more psi at all rpms, I'd have to get retuned in CA again
for reference, here's the thread on the non-slip pulleys
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228676&highlight=pulley+slip+vortech
here's an interesting post I came across in that thread:
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...40&postcount=5
It'd have to be in a couple weeks though because I'm scheduled to get tuned in CA at GTM the middle of next week.
I could do a before/after dyno though at a local shop when I get back
...but I'm not sure if I'd want that pulley setup permanently though since the mustang guys have reported chewing up belts, even GATES beltes much faster to the point that they end up switching back
so I'm still not sure if I care enough to actually spend time and money finding out when in the end, I probably wouldn't use the pulley anyway - and if it really did give me 1-3 or whatever more psi at all rpms, I'd have to get retuned in CA again
for reference, here's the thread on the non-slip pulleys
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228676&highlight=pulley+slip+vortech
here's an interesting post I came across in that thread:
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...40&postcount=5
Last edited by sentry65; 04-14-2007 at 10:59 AM.
04-14-2007 | 11:37 AM
#35
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From: council bluffs Ia.
Originally Posted by sentry65
hmm that's not a bad idea as a test
It'd have to be in a couple weeks though because I'm scheduled to get tuned in CA at GTM the middle of next week.
I could do a before/after dyno though at a local shop when I get back
...but I'm not sure if I'd want that pulley setup permanently though since the mustang guys have reported chewing up belts, even GATES beltes much faster to the point that they end up switching back
so I'm still not sure if I care enough to actually spend time and money finding out when in the end, I probably wouldn't use the pulley anyway - and if it really did give me 1-3 or whatever more psi at all rpms, I'd have to get retuned in CA again
for reference, here's the thread on the non-slip pulleys
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228676&highlight=pulley+slip+vortech
here's an interesting post I came across in that thread:
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...40&postcount=5
It'd have to be in a couple weeks though because I'm scheduled to get tuned in CA at GTM the middle of next week.
I could do a before/after dyno though at a local shop when I get back
...but I'm not sure if I'd want that pulley setup permanently though since the mustang guys have reported chewing up belts, even GATES beltes much faster to the point that they end up switching back
so I'm still not sure if I care enough to actually spend time and money finding out when in the end, I probably wouldn't use the pulley anyway - and if it really did give me 1-3 or whatever more psi at all rpms, I'd have to get retuned in CA again
for reference, here's the thread on the non-slip pulleys
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228676&highlight=pulley+slip+vortech
here's an interesting post I came across in that thread:
https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...40&postcount=5
OH....and ....lol....why include the second link ? Hmmmmmm ????? lol
04-14-2007 | 11:44 AM
#36
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From: council bluffs Ia.
With the above senario....to explain it . You are actually not going to be spinning the blower as fast with the serp pulleys as you would be with the cog pulley and belts . Because of the slipage going on with serp belts . You think...because the calculator say it SHOULD be spinning that fast IF slipage wasnt present .
Again ...pretty dam simple !
Again ...pretty dam simple !
04-14-2007 | 11:45 AM
#37
booger I agree, no one is disputing that you made more boost with the cog setup for your car with your T-trim
I guess my question is do you really expect my car to see gains of 1-5psi throughout the powerband be using a cog setup?
We all know vortech's stock belt setup sucks. It's pretty terrible. You took it to the next level by using a T-trim and made the difference going from slipping to not slipping even greater. You gained 5 psi, congrats. I'm not sure if I will though with my setup
My difference from slip to no slip I don't think will be as great as it was in your case
I don't deny there's probably some small amount of slipping, but not to the extent you were slipping with the stock belt setup and T-trim
that's been my point all along which is this:
booger T-trim:
stock belt system = 13-14psi
cog belt system = 18 psi
sentry65, S-trim:
rerouted belt system = 12 psi
cog belt system = IMO maybe 13 psi
I'm not suprised you're 5-6psi higher than me since you have a T-trim. Afterall there's supposed to be a 5-6psi difference between the T-trim and S-trim, but I'm not exactly sure what rpm you're spinning your blower at, or at least what the proportional difference it is between our blower rpms
even you didn't seem to think using the cog setup would produce much gains with the S-trim to be worthwhile
but now you do think all S-trim people will gain pretty huge gains with the cog setup - even bone stock kits
I mean, we can now say I gained 2 psi just from switching to Timrod's belt setup
I reach 12 psi now instead of 10. That's proof enough to me that the stock belt system slips easily - and I've been tightening the tension to pretty much the same for both setups
I guess my question is do you really expect my car to see gains of 1-5psi throughout the powerband be using a cog setup?
We all know vortech's stock belt setup sucks. It's pretty terrible. You took it to the next level by using a T-trim and made the difference going from slipping to not slipping even greater. You gained 5 psi, congrats. I'm not sure if I will though with my setup
My difference from slip to no slip I don't think will be as great as it was in your case
I don't deny there's probably some small amount of slipping, but not to the extent you were slipping with the stock belt setup and T-trim
that's been my point all along which is this:
booger T-trim:
stock belt system = 13-14psi
cog belt system = 18 psi
sentry65, S-trim:
rerouted belt system = 12 psi
cog belt system = IMO maybe 13 psi
I'm not suprised you're 5-6psi higher than me since you have a T-trim. Afterall there's supposed to be a 5-6psi difference between the T-trim and S-trim, but I'm not exactly sure what rpm you're spinning your blower at, or at least what the proportional difference it is between our blower rpms
Originally Posted by booger
OH....and ....lol....why include the second link ? Hmmmmmm ????? lol
but now you do think all S-trim people will gain pretty huge gains with the cog setup - even bone stock kits
I mean, we can now say I gained 2 psi just from switching to Timrod's belt setup
I reach 12 psi now instead of 10. That's proof enough to me that the stock belt system slips easily - and I've been tightening the tension to pretty much the same for both setups
Last edited by sentry65; 04-14-2007 at 12:13 PM.
04-14-2007 | 12:00 PM
#38
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From: council bluffs Ia.
Originally Posted by sentry65
booger I agree, no one is disputing that you made more boost with the cog setup for your car with your T-trim
however if you spin the belt faster, you do get more traction on the belt surface assuming you can eliminate orbiting - what Timrod's solution does.
I guess my question is how do you know that my belt is slipping on my car with a better belt setup and smaller blower than your old stock one on a T-trim? Do you really expect my car to see gains of 1-5psi throughout the powerband be using a cog setup?
We all know vortech's stock belt setup sucks. It's pretty terrible. You took it to the next level by using a T-trim and made the difference going from slipping to not slipping even higher.
My difference from slip to no slip I don't think will be as great as it was in your case
however if you spin the belt faster, you do get more traction on the belt surface assuming you can eliminate orbiting - what Timrod's solution does.
I guess my question is how do you know that my belt is slipping on my car with a better belt setup and smaller blower than your old stock one on a T-trim? Do you really expect my car to see gains of 1-5psi throughout the powerband be using a cog setup?
We all know vortech's stock belt setup sucks. It's pretty terrible. You took it to the next level by using a T-trim and made the difference going from slipping to not slipping even higher.
My difference from slip to no slip I don't think will be as great as it was in your case
I never said the results from both blowers would be exactly the same . I did say that you would see the same results though .
I also never said that TimRods re-routing of the belts wouldnt help . It does help but not as much as you think .
I had a hard time believing all this my self . My logs all show...a gradual gain in boost thru the rpm range untill I hit the 13psi level...first at 6300rpm . Then after some IC and pipping mods...5900rpm . After the 13psi level...I could easily see in the logs where the boost flattens out and would just quickly spike up to and or around 14.9psi . But as soon as I saw the log from the cog system....it basicly hits you in the face with the facts .
04-14-2007 | 12:11 PM
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From: council bluffs Ia.
Originally Posted by sentry65
booger I agree, no one is disputing that you made more boost with the cog setup for your car with your T-trim
however if you spin the belt faster, you do get more traction on the belt surface assuming you can eliminate orbiting - what Timrod's solution does.
I guess my question is how do you know that my belt is slipping on my car with a better belt setup and smaller blower than your old stock one on a T-trim? Do you really expect my car to see gains of 1-5psi throughout the powerband be using a cog setup?
We all know vortech's stock belt setup sucks. It's pretty terrible. You took it to the next level by using a T-trim and made the difference going from slipping to not slipping even higher.
My difference from slip to no slip I don't think will be as great as it was in your case
I don't deny there's probably some small amount of slipping, but not to the extent you were slipping with the stock belt setup and T-trim
that's been my point all along which is this:
booger T-trim:
stock belt system = 13-14psi
cog belt system = 18 psi
sentry65, S-trim:
rerouted belt system = 12 psi
cog belt system = IMO maybe 13 psi
afterall there's supposed to be a 5-6psi difference between the T-trim and S-trim, but I'm not exactly sure what rpm you're spinning your blower at
even you didn't seem to think using the cog setup would produce much gains with the S-trim
but you seem to think all S-trim people will gain 1-5psi
I mean, can't we say I gained 2 psi just from switching to Timrod's belt setup
I reach 12 psi now instead of 10. That's proof enough the stock belt system sucks - and it's been tightened to about the same amount of belt tension as before
however if you spin the belt faster, you do get more traction on the belt surface assuming you can eliminate orbiting - what Timrod's solution does.
I guess my question is how do you know that my belt is slipping on my car with a better belt setup and smaller blower than your old stock one on a T-trim? Do you really expect my car to see gains of 1-5psi throughout the powerband be using a cog setup?
We all know vortech's stock belt setup sucks. It's pretty terrible. You took it to the next level by using a T-trim and made the difference going from slipping to not slipping even higher.
My difference from slip to no slip I don't think will be as great as it was in your case
I don't deny there's probably some small amount of slipping, but not to the extent you were slipping with the stock belt setup and T-trim
that's been my point all along which is this:
booger T-trim:
stock belt system = 13-14psi
cog belt system = 18 psi
sentry65, S-trim:
rerouted belt system = 12 psi
cog belt system = IMO maybe 13 psi
afterall there's supposed to be a 5-6psi difference between the T-trim and S-trim, but I'm not exactly sure what rpm you're spinning your blower at
even you didn't seem to think using the cog setup would produce much gains with the S-trim
but you seem to think all S-trim people will gain 1-5psi
I mean, can't we say I gained 2 psi just from switching to Timrod's belt setup
I reach 12 psi now instead of 10. That's proof enough the stock belt system sucks - and it's been tightened to about the same amount of belt tension as before
The 18psi you quoted as my boost was at 6100rpm . AT 6690rpm it was at 21.7psi and my serp system it was between 13 and 14.9psi .
Because the 32 tooth pulley isnt exactly the same size as the 3.12 serp pulley , I cant give exact rpm speeds . But it isnt really needed . Ever thing doesnt need to be exact.....But unless every thing is presented to you in exacts and nothing but exact numbers , diameters , rpm's , and psi . You dont want to beleive and will argue the point till your blue in the face . I presented the facts . Although they arent in exact number doesnt mean that they arent facts . SO again ...believe what you will . Believe you are spinning the blower to the exact numbers the calculator says and that the boost just doesnt show up for no reason .
04-14-2007 | 12:17 PM
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From: council bluffs Ia.
booger vbmenu_register("postmenu_3242640", true);
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In my case yes ....if I didnt have a T-trim blower....no..I would stay with the kit as is . Beside , the cost of having Vortech or some one else make a cog set up would be costly .
Where did you get the info that led you to believe you will get more vibration ? I'm not doubting you...just like to know where that info comes from . thanks
__________________
I could'nt afford it when young-I'm going to play now that I'm old
Vortech T-trim blower for sale..PM me
Looks to me you just isolated my reply...out of context . You sure did put alot of words into my mouth didnt you . How did you come up with all that you said I said from that one sentence ???
Vortech T-trim
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: neb
Posts: 5,484
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In my case yes ....if I didnt have a T-trim blower....no..I would stay with the kit as is . Beside , the cost of having Vortech or some one else make a cog set up would be costly .
Where did you get the info that led you to believe you will get more vibration ? I'm not doubting you...just like to know where that info comes from . thanks
__________________
I could'nt afford it when young-I'm going to play now that I'm old
Vortech T-trim blower for sale..PM me
Looks to me you just isolated my reply...out of context . You sure did put alot of words into my mouth didnt you . How did you come up with all that you said I said from that one sentence ???