Cass007.... ver 5.0
 

I decided that the old thread has run its course, so I'm starting a new one to update on my current issues and status.

The car made it to ZdayZ and the airstrip and encountered an issue related to the flat shift on the ViPEC. Long story short, I got crushed by EVERYONE. The car held up just fine though and with the exception of a coupler popping off (thanks again Alex) the trip was without incedent.

Appx a week after ZdayZ I started to hear and occasional ticking sound upon startup. Everyone I have asked about it (Frank Hill, jtgli, Franz, Jim Justice) agrees that it is most likely an exhaust leak from the pre-turbo manifold on the passengers side. Initally the leak was closing after the car got warm and the noise went away, but it was becoming more persistant lately. The general concensus was that the motor should be pulled to do the repair properly.

Last week I was doing some highway pulls with a friend, 4th & 5th gear to ~130mph when I noticed a decrease from normal oil pressure after the last pull. I parked the car and the next day I saw normal startup pressure (~90psi) and the gauge was moving between the lower pressure (~15-18psi) and normal pressure (~25psi) at hot idle. I called Frank and he suggested an oil and filter change with Blackstone sample sent.

Frank met me at his shop at 9pm that same day, only hours after me calling him, how sick is that?!?! We change out the Mobil 15w50 that had 2300 miles on it from the ZdayZ trip and the airstrip with Mobil 0w40 that it had been running previously. The pressure was the same, so Frank swapped to another pressure sending unit to eliminate that. Same pressure again. Lastly, Frank installed a manual gauge where the drivers side turbo oil line connects and we got the same pressure a third time. I was crushed.... more problems. At this point Frank recommends parking the car and waiting for the Blackstone oil analysis to at least reveal if there is any material in the oil that would cause concern. We strained some of the oil at the shop and found nothing.

The next day I had an appointment with Franz to get the flat shift issue fixed and have a firmware update done on the ViPEC, as well as having some small drivability issues sorted out. I had been in contact with Franz and Jim Justice regarding the oil pressure and both agreed that the issue seemed odd, but the car still had pressure so it is possible that it may be overheating the oil and an oil cooler is necessary, but I should be fine to travel.

I make it to Justice without issue with the car making the same pressure as previously stated. Franz does his thing and I come home. I catch a SES light somewhere along the way and still need to get the code read. As I back into the garage the oil light comes on and the car starts making valvetrain noise. I shut it off and left it over night. This morning I statrted it up and it made the valvetrain noise for a moment and then the oil pressure came up (~30-40psi) and the noise went away immediately and all sounds normal, except the exhaust leak.

So no I am preparing to pull the motor myself in the garage over the nex week(s) and begin a teardown to find what issues or damage I have. I figure I should learn more of the mechanical stuff myself if I'm going to blow motors on a regular basis and I'm tired of spending so much money on the car. I will update with progress and pics along the way and will make a determination on if there will be a rebuild or a part-out once I know what/if anything is damaged.

No fingerpointing or calling out going on here, just making the community aware of why my car is down and why I'm MIA for a bit.

OMG Chris I hope that it is something minor. I would hate to see you have to go thru anything again.

:(



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Jesus Christ.....I don't think I'll ever go FI when I keep reading these stories.

Hope everything turns out for the best. Good luck.

good luck

hope it's just a minor issue

When you changed the oil, I'm assuming that you changed the filter. By chance did you cut it open to take a peak at what is being caught by the filter? Also, before tearing the entire motor apart, you might drop the oil pan and look to see if there are any bearing fragments in there.

I origninally thought my issue was in the valve train, it was a ticking noise that would start when the motor was warmed up. When the motor was cold I could not hear it. It turned out to be a failed rod bearing, which coincidentally happened when I was doing a flat shift and my rev limiter did not kick in.

damn sorry to hear that.... hopefully its minor

:mad: :icon27: :frown: :drunk: :cry2: :chug: Typical series of emotions me thinks....

Oh hell no Chris....god i hope you dont find anything major.

Pretty much nailed it :bowrofl:

HILARIOUS!!!! :bowrofl: - Its happened so many times that I'm just like "whatever", I'm actually kind of excited to tackle this as a DIY project.

Frank did not have the correct tool to cut the filter open, but he will do so ASAP, but he is booked right now. I will drop the pan and know what to look for. I will also take everything to Justice so Jim and Franz can evaluate the bearings and heads. Franz is wondering if my one-off turbos may be generating too much heat due to backpressure caused by the smallish exhaust housing. He wants to ev.alute the setup from top to bottom and suggested me swapping to a single GT42 T6 (Hal's setup) if I go in another direction.

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement, I hope this is fixable as well.

Look at the bright side Keith, with my car down, it means Berto should be running all summer :icon17:

The worst part was that after the firmware update the car was so smooth it was sick, best it had driven yet.

WHAT!!!!!

Any chance, like terry mentioned, that the problems with the flat shift caused an over-rev?

Tom

that sucks man. I was expecting this thread to be a bigger/badder build thread. Not the opposite...

Hope it's nothing big and you can be back on the road.

Thanks again for my first ride at the airstrip event :)

Doubtful. Terry's issue stemmed from an ECU swap to one that didn't have the rev limiter set. I confirmed yesterday that mine is set all the time, plus I wasn't flat shifting when I saw the initial pressure drop.

I haven't seen any oil anywhere either, no smoke out the exhaust at all, catch can with a teaspoon of oil/water mix as usual. The only time I tried the flat shift was at the airstrip. It turns out that the shift needed a delay of .3 seconds built into it to compensate for the switch being at the very top of the pedal and my engagement point being lower down.

Wait a sec - you don't have an oil cooler? What are you're oil temps when boosting during the summer?

In the summer I spike oil temps past 240 deg F when boosting for just a few minutes on/off and have to coast to cool down (esp when I forget to manually turn my rad fans to max - I figure if it's past 240at my temp sensor, god knows how hot it is coming out of the turbo) - and that's with an oil cooler! Plan is to get a bigger cooler on there this summer. Also, my Blackstone UOA for Mobil 1 15W-50 was worse than Mobil 1 0W-40, fwiw (only tested for 6 mos, 1 oil change period, 4k miles but I'm unwilling to try it again). I am now trying Eneos 0W-50 for this summer - just changed it out.

I think synthetics are stable under 300 deg F - but not for long at that temp. 3k mile oil changes and under 280-300 deg F max temps I think is probably ok.

Fingers crossed bro!

:werd: - Franz thinks I'm cooking the oil. He said to replace the factory center cluster with a Defi Oil Pressure, Oil Temp and Coolant Temp gauges as well as get an oil cooler right away. As he put it, "the oil is engineered to survive at high temps, unfortunately the engine isn't".

I figure I was pulling the motor to fix the exhaust leak anyway, so I might as well get this straighted out before I put a rod through the block. Jim and Franz both said that if a bearing failed at highway speeds the motor would be all over the highway by the time I realized there was an issue. Whatever is damaged is damaged at this point, I can only evaluate and go from there. I'm trying hard not to let my mind go crazy and get to a dark place where all the FAIL lives.... I call this "ostrich defense", just put your head in the sand and everything goes away :icon23:

i doubt its the turbos overheating as those are no different really than any of the GTM options.

Oil pressure and your car are like well, oil and water.

I completely know how you feel about shrugging it off at this point. Same shoes like 2 months ago...

Really sucks becuase after the 1st fial, you could went with a LS2/turbo swap, killed everyone at Zdayz and without stressing the motor that bad.. I second guess not going that route all the time.

Hope its not too serious, but unfortunately we all know that engine noises are never cheap.

cracked oil pump housing? how high are you spinning this thing?

Damn Chris. :(

:( I have followed your builds since the beginning and it scares me to change from a stock block TT that has run perfectly for about three years to a built TT. Luckily I am i the middle of building a different car right now, but when that is done I wanted to revisit the Z and make it go faster.

One of the first things I asked Frank was if I could swap to an HR motor, but it requires several different things. I would have considered keeping that stock with TT, but honestly I was just getting enough seat time that stock block DE power was just ho hum..

Spinning to 8K, oil pump was last on the list just because its mechanical and so simple, but with me anything is possible. I restarted the can again and it make a hella racket. Some shizz is most definately busted up in there :icon27:

I got the hood, plenum, catch can, coils, intake, hood latch and BOV removed so far. Just going real slow and labeling things as I take them off. Hoping to get the bulk of the front off tomorrow, I have to buy a better jack first to get the car higher in the air.

Hey Robbie :hello:

Wow sorry to hear. If ya need anything on pulling the motor shoot me a pm. I just went through it so have an idea of what you're up against.

Damn, sorry man I know that feeling. I just feel bad know you have to go thur this crap again.

damn chris :( Let me know if you need anything boss.

Sorry to hear this man, hopefully it is just something stupid and you will be back on the road soon.

well at least its not this much fail :) But pretty sure that still had oil pressure :bowrofl:
http://i46.tinypic.com/2popc0w.jpg

Chris, did you have a billet girdle on there?

I am going for a firmware update tomorrow, I hope it works out good for me. Sorry to hear about your never ending battle. Its cool to DIY once the next 3-4 times become a PITA. Good luck.

Sorry to hear this man, good luck.

Hope it all works out for you. Really sucks to see this happen to you again. Hopefully the karma kicks in and you pay for this build 10x over at the tables!

Wow....I too find it hard to believe you did not have an oil cooler:dunno: Bad boy Chris :mad:

it may not be as bad as most are thinking....keep us updated.

Chris. I know you were disgusted with your car at the strip. Truly disappointing to dump all that coin and not be FAST! But you will work this out. Hopefully its not as expensive as you have already committed to in your mind.
Good luck bro.

If your considering other turbo options...Hal's got a killer set-up. I support the change!

I dont run an oil cooler either :( but the air temps here haven't even hit 71degF yet and my car has see zero track time, mostly hiway miles. A cooler is in my future though.

PS Chris got the new firm ware update this morning car drives much better now :thumbup: and I got some timing pulled to get rid of the knock I had at 16.5psi and 5800rpm :icon9:

why would that be needed for his build and power?

I am also not willing to fixiate on the lack of oil cooler either just yet as it woudl be "cleaver" to deflect attention from what could be the issue....does chris have a radiator or some other cooling mod?...if its considered "critical" and not very expensive, why wasnt it suggested before? ...since its in hingsight, fyi i say this NOT to point finger down that they never botherd to do it, but jsut that they probably didnt expect that to be such as issue with heat temps....which again coudl still point to something else then..

Anyways chris...i seriously didnt expect this thread to be about this issues man....i hope you get them solved (again) and that they are not as bad as expected. Good luck on the DIY project though, and at least i like that you are thinking ahead with bigger a turbo.

I wouldn't underestimate how critical heat management is for FI. I thought XKR was nuts for insisting on 2 oil coolers when he had his car built. Running a thermostatic adapter and the largest cooler you can fit is what I'd recommend now. It sucks having to shut down because you're worried about climbing temps. It's worse not knowing and pushing on...

If you've got temp gauges and they tell you you're ok, that's one thing. Assuming you're fine is another. I've had my coolant temp below 185 and my oil temp over 230, depending on driving conditions, so relying on your standard temp gauge to tell you everything is ok might not be prudent.

Billet girdle and main caps is to maintain bearing clearances under high rpm load. 8k rpm rev limiter qualifies.

Next thing I would consider Chris is Evans coolant, if you're not already using it. I think both around the cylinders and around the turbo, it can be a life saver by preventing steam formation.

Rich is that your engine?


Where is Chris he makes a thread then dissapears, back to grief managment?:d_buddy::drunk:

Checking in... I've been under the car most of the day Gord :rolleyes:

I was unaware that an oil cooler was required, its not like I live in TX or AZ, but the difference was I was using the Z as my DD since I loaned my truck to a friend. I continue to learn lessons the hard way and can only hope I will serve as an example for the community of how to avoid fail.

Got down to the AC condenser, need to get the quick release tools today and then I'm at the front of the motor. I've been working real slow and labeling everything so I know what goes where and how.

A couple tablespoons of oil in the drivers side of the IC, but no more than that. Coolant was clean and intake was clean as well. I'm sore as balls from crawling around on the concrete all day, I could afford to by a lift if this stupid car would quit breaking :rolleyes:.

Mike and Gord, thanks for the PMs. Mike, I need to see what I have going on here and then will get back to you. Gord, keep at it, but be careful.

Negative. My car may be totalled, it was broken into Thursday night, HU stolen, aftermarket guages cut out, they tried to take the OEM GPS, now the car wont start no guages, interior wires smoke with ignition "on", etc, etc, FMFL!

Back to YOU, I feel your pain man, Im at a point where I dont give a $hit anymore, and I think that says something in itself. If somebody else fawks your wife or girl and you dont give a $Hit do you really love her? Everytime something bad hapens you become more numb to it, eventually reaching the love/hate relationship I experience.

Wow that sucks! Didnt the alarm or anything go off when they broke into it?

In your case, thats why you have insurance. All that will get paid for, replaced, and repaired. I had my DD broken into last week, along with the rest of the f'n neighborhood apparently. Tore up my interior but really only stole cash.

Good luck to both of y'all!

Pulled the pan today and my worst fears are confirmed. The pan is full of bearing material :icon27:. I can't say I'm surprised. Decided to stop for the day since the car is going nowhere in the near future, most likely done for the year.

I need to take some time now and give some real thought to how much money spent on a project is too much. Even if I can fix the car again, could I ever truly enjoy or trust it?

I will have pics eventually.

Chris so sorry to hear this.

it sucks to say but hte easiest thing is just order another long block and swap them. if you do the labor yourself you're out what, 5 g's for a long block?

Man this sucks. I know you spent a lot of money but I hope you stick with it.

Chris....don't be a hero.....listen to that little voice inside your head telling you to drink........

Sucks man.

Man this is what 3 or 4 engines now? I would probably give up and If I didnt someone else would be building my engine. It would have probably been cheaper for you to take a damn machinist course at a college or something. This is crazyness.

Chris lets take our cars into fields and blow em up.

Good for nothing VQ's man. Before my break in, my car started blowing coolant into the overflow something fierce again...AT IDLE. Great sign of whats to come, I dont look forward to fixing it.

Not what I wanted to hear :(

How many miles on this motor? BTW, I like your custom single turbo idea.

Wow, sorry to read about this - dam, this has got to be a record run of bad luck and definitely not deserving of such a nice person as Chris.