Cass007.... ver 5.0
06-17-2010, 07:47 AM
#1
Cass007.... ver 5.0
I decided that the old thread has run its course, so I'm starting a new one to update on my current issues and status.
The car made it to ZdayZ and the airstrip and encountered an issue related to the flat shift on the ViPEC. Long story short, I got crushed by EVERYONE. The car held up just fine though and with the exception of a coupler popping off (thanks again Alex) the trip was without incedent.
Appx a week after ZdayZ I started to hear and occasional ticking sound upon startup. Everyone I have asked about it (Frank Hill, jtgli, Franz, Jim Justice) agrees that it is most likely an exhaust leak from the pre-turbo manifold on the passengers side. Initally the leak was closing after the car got warm and the noise went away, but it was becoming more persistant lately. The general concensus was that the motor should be pulled to do the repair properly.
Last week I was doing some highway pulls with a friend, 4th & 5th gear to ~130mph when I noticed a decrease from normal oil pressure after the last pull. I parked the car and the next day I saw normal startup pressure (~90psi) and the gauge was moving between the lower pressure (~15-18psi) and normal pressure (~25psi) at hot idle. I called Frank and he suggested an oil and filter change with Blackstone sample sent.
Frank met me at his shop at 9pm that same day, only hours after me calling him, how sick is that?!?! We change out the Mobil 15w50 that had 2300 miles on it from the ZdayZ trip and the airstrip with Mobil 0w40 that it had been running previously. The pressure was the same, so Frank swapped to another pressure sending unit to eliminate that. Same pressure again. Lastly, Frank installed a manual gauge where the drivers side turbo oil line connects and we got the same pressure a third time. I was crushed.... more problems. At this point Frank recommends parking the car and waiting for the Blackstone oil analysis to at least reveal if there is any material in the oil that would cause concern. We strained some of the oil at the shop and found nothing.
The next day I had an appointment with Franz to get the flat shift issue fixed and have a firmware update done on the ViPEC, as well as having some small drivability issues sorted out. I had been in contact with Franz and Jim Justice regarding the oil pressure and both agreed that the issue seemed odd, but the car still had pressure so it is possible that it may be overheating the oil and an oil cooler is necessary, but I should be fine to travel.
I make it to Justice without issue with the car making the same pressure as previously stated. Franz does his thing and I come home. I catch a SES light somewhere along the way and still need to get the code read. As I back into the garage the oil light comes on and the car starts making valvetrain noise. I shut it off and left it over night. This morning I statrted it up and it made the valvetrain noise for a moment and then the oil pressure came up (~30-40psi) and the noise went away immediately and all sounds normal, except the exhaust leak.
So no I am preparing to pull the motor myself in the garage over the nex week(s) and begin a teardown to find what issues or damage I have. I figure I should learn more of the mechanical stuff myself if I'm going to blow motors on a regular basis and I'm tired of spending so much money on the car. I will update with progress and pics along the way and will make a determination on if there will be a rebuild or a part-out once I know what/if anything is damaged.
No fingerpointing or calling out going on here, just making the community aware of why my car is down and why I'm MIA for a bit.
The car made it to ZdayZ and the airstrip and encountered an issue related to the flat shift on the ViPEC. Long story short, I got crushed by EVERYONE. The car held up just fine though and with the exception of a coupler popping off (thanks again Alex) the trip was without incedent.
Appx a week after ZdayZ I started to hear and occasional ticking sound upon startup. Everyone I have asked about it (Frank Hill, jtgli, Franz, Jim Justice) agrees that it is most likely an exhaust leak from the pre-turbo manifold on the passengers side. Initally the leak was closing after the car got warm and the noise went away, but it was becoming more persistant lately. The general concensus was that the motor should be pulled to do the repair properly.
Last week I was doing some highway pulls with a friend, 4th & 5th gear to ~130mph when I noticed a decrease from normal oil pressure after the last pull. I parked the car and the next day I saw normal startup pressure (~90psi) and the gauge was moving between the lower pressure (~15-18psi) and normal pressure (~25psi) at hot idle. I called Frank and he suggested an oil and filter change with Blackstone sample sent.
Frank met me at his shop at 9pm that same day, only hours after me calling him, how sick is that?!?! We change out the Mobil 15w50 that had 2300 miles on it from the ZdayZ trip and the airstrip with Mobil 0w40 that it had been running previously. The pressure was the same, so Frank swapped to another pressure sending unit to eliminate that. Same pressure again. Lastly, Frank installed a manual gauge where the drivers side turbo oil line connects and we got the same pressure a third time. I was crushed.... more problems. At this point Frank recommends parking the car and waiting for the Blackstone oil analysis to at least reveal if there is any material in the oil that would cause concern. We strained some of the oil at the shop and found nothing.
The next day I had an appointment with Franz to get the flat shift issue fixed and have a firmware update done on the ViPEC, as well as having some small drivability issues sorted out. I had been in contact with Franz and Jim Justice regarding the oil pressure and both agreed that the issue seemed odd, but the car still had pressure so it is possible that it may be overheating the oil and an oil cooler is necessary, but I should be fine to travel.
I make it to Justice without issue with the car making the same pressure as previously stated. Franz does his thing and I come home. I catch a SES light somewhere along the way and still need to get the code read. As I back into the garage the oil light comes on and the car starts making valvetrain noise. I shut it off and left it over night. This morning I statrted it up and it made the valvetrain noise for a moment and then the oil pressure came up (~30-40psi) and the noise went away immediately and all sounds normal, except the exhaust leak.
So no I am preparing to pull the motor myself in the garage over the nex week(s) and begin a teardown to find what issues or damage I have. I figure I should learn more of the mechanical stuff myself if I'm going to blow motors on a regular basis and I'm tired of spending so much money on the car. I will update with progress and pics along the way and will make a determination on if there will be a rebuild or a part-out once I know what/if anything is damaged.
No fingerpointing or calling out going on here, just making the community aware of why my car is down and why I'm MIA for a bit.
06-17-2010, 08:24 AM
#7
When you changed the oil, I'm assuming that you changed the filter. By chance did you cut it open to take a peak at what is being caught by the filter? Also, before tearing the entire motor apart, you might drop the oil pan and look to see if there are any bearing fragments in there.
I origninally thought my issue was in the valve train, it was a ticking noise that would start when the motor was warmed up. When the motor was cold I could not hear it. It turned out to be a failed rod bearing, which coincidentally happened when I was doing a flat shift and my rev limiter did not kick in.
I origninally thought my issue was in the valve train, it was a ticking noise that would start when the motor was warmed up. When the motor was cold I could not hear it. It turned out to be a failed rod bearing, which coincidentally happened when I was doing a flat shift and my rev limiter did not kick in.
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Typical series of emotions me thinks....
06-17-2010, 08:44 AM
#12
HILARIOUS!!!! 
- Its happened so many times that I'm just like "whatever", I'm actually kind of excited to tackle this as a DIY project.
Frank did not have the correct tool to cut the filter open, but he will do so ASAP, but he is booked right now. I will drop the pan and know what to look for. I will also take everything to Justice so Jim and Franz can evaluate the bearings and heads. Franz is wondering if my one-off turbos may be generating too much heat due to backpressure caused by the smallish exhaust housing. He wants to ev.alute the setup from top to bottom and suggested me swapping to a single GT42 T6 (Hal's setup) if I go in another direction.
Thanks to everyone for the encouragement, I hope this is fixable as well.
Look at the bright side Keith, with my car down, it means Berto should be running all summer 
The worst part was that after the firmware update the car was so smooth it was sick, best it had driven yet.
- Its happened so many times that I'm just like "whatever", I'm actually kind of excited to tackle this as a DIY project.
When you changed the oil, I'm assuming that you changed the filter. By chance did you cut it open to take a peak at what is being caught by the filter? Also, before tearing the entire motor apart, you might drop the oil pan and look to see if there are any bearing fragments in there.
Thanks to everyone for the encouragement, I hope this is fixable as well.
Oh hell no Chris....god i hope you dont find anything major.
The worst part was that after the firmware update the car was so smooth it was sick, best it had driven yet.
06-17-2010, 08:53 AM
#14
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that sucks man. I was expecting this thread to be a bigger/badder build thread. Not the opposite...
Hope it's nothing big and you can be back on the road.
Thanks again for my first ride at the airstrip event
Hope it's nothing big and you can be back on the road.
Thanks again for my first ride at the airstrip event
06-17-2010, 08:59 AM
#15
I haven't seen any oil anywhere either, no smoke out the exhaust at all, catch can with a teaspoon of oil/water mix as usual. The only time I tried the flat shift was at the airstrip. It turns out that the shift needed a delay of .3 seconds built into it to compensate for the switch being at the very top of the pedal and my engagement point being lower down.
06-17-2010, 09:00 AM
#16
Wait a sec - you don't have an oil cooler? What are you're oil temps when boosting during the summer?
In the summer I spike oil temps past 240 deg F when boosting for just a few minutes on/off and have to coast to cool down (esp when I forget to manually turn my rad fans to max - I figure if it's past 240at my temp sensor, god knows how hot it is coming out of the turbo) - and that's with an oil cooler! Plan is to get a bigger cooler on there this summer. Also, my Blackstone UOA for Mobil 1 15W-50 was worse than Mobil 1 0W-40, fwiw (only tested for 6 mos, 1 oil change period, 4k miles but I'm unwilling to try it again). I am now trying Eneos 0W-50 for this summer - just changed it out.
I think synthetics are stable under 300 deg F - but not for long at that temp. 3k mile oil changes and under 280-300 deg F max temps I think is probably ok.
Fingers crossed bro!
In the summer I spike oil temps past 240 deg F when boosting for just a few minutes on/off and have to coast to cool down (esp when I forget to manually turn my rad fans to max - I figure if it's past 240at my temp sensor, god knows how hot it is coming out of the turbo) - and that's with an oil cooler! Plan is to get a bigger cooler on there this summer. Also, my Blackstone UOA for Mobil 1 15W-50 was worse than Mobil 1 0W-40, fwiw (only tested for 6 mos, 1 oil change period, 4k miles but I'm unwilling to try it again). I am now trying Eneos 0W-50 for this summer - just changed it out.
I think synthetics are stable under 300 deg F - but not for long at that temp. 3k mile oil changes and under 280-300 deg F max temps I think is probably ok.
Fingers crossed bro!
Last edited by rcdash; 06-17-2010 at 09:14 AM.
06-17-2010, 09:14 AM
#17
Wait a sec - you don't have an oil cooler? What are you're oil temps when boosting during the summer? In the summer I spike oil temps past 240 deg F when boosting for just a few minutes on/off and have to coast to cool down (I figure if it's past 240 at my temp sensor, god knows how hot it is coming out of the turbo) - and that's with an oil cooler! Plan is to get a bigger cooler on there this summer.
I think synthetics are stable under 300 deg F - but not for long at that temp. 3k mile oil changes and under 280-300 deg F max temps I think is probably ok.
Fingers crossed bro!
I think synthetics are stable under 300 deg F - but not for long at that temp. 3k mile oil changes and under 280-300 deg F max temps I think is probably ok.
Fingers crossed bro!
- Franz thinks I'm cooking the oil. He said to replace the factory center cluster with a Defi Oil Pressure, Oil Temp and Coolant Temp gauges as well as get an oil cooler right away. As he put it, "the oil is engineered to survive at high temps, unfortunately the engine isn't".I figure I was pulling the motor to fix the exhaust leak anyway, so I might as well get this straighted out before I put a rod through the block. Jim and Franz both said that if a bearing failed at highway speeds the motor would be all over the highway by the time I realized there was an issue. Whatever is damaged is damaged at this point, I can only evaluate and go from there. I'm trying hard not to let my mind go crazy and get to a dark place where all the FAIL lives.... I call this "ostrich defense", just put your head in the sand and everything goes away
06-17-2010, 09:25 AM
#18
i doubt its the turbos overheating as those are no different really than any of the GTM options.
Oil pressure and your car are like well, oil and water.
I completely know how you feel about shrugging it off at this point. Same shoes like 2 months ago...
Really sucks becuase after the 1st fial, you could went with a LS2/turbo swap, killed everyone at Zdayz and without stressing the motor that bad.. I second guess not going that route all the time.
Hope its not too serious, but unfortunately we all know that engine noises are never cheap.
Oil pressure and your car are like well, oil and water.
I completely know how you feel about shrugging it off at this point. Same shoes like 2 months ago...
Really sucks becuase after the 1st fial, you could went with a LS2/turbo swap, killed everyone at Zdayz and without stressing the motor that bad.. I second guess not going that route all the time.
Hope its not too serious, but unfortunately we all know that engine noises are never cheap.
