Greddy Twin Turbo Kit On Sale Now
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Oceanside Ca
Originally posted by xZlr8
Agreed, GReddy has spent a lot of time with this, but 6500 bucks is a lot of cash for something thats not even gonna give you the power the ATI will at a fraction of the cost. Since superchargers are belt driven do they not spool up instantly along with the crank and other accessories? It seems as if that would give you better low end power/torque. Anywayz, i'm going the ATI route for several reasons: significantly cheaper, easier to maintain, more power than greddy, instantaneous power (i.e. no lag at all). But hey, this is one guys opinion and opinions are like buttholes....everybodies got one, some just stink worse than others.
Agreed, GReddy has spent a lot of time with this, but 6500 bucks is a lot of cash for something thats not even gonna give you the power the ATI will at a fraction of the cost. Since superchargers are belt driven do they not spool up instantly along with the crank and other accessories? It seems as if that would give you better low end power/torque. Anywayz, i'm going the ATI route for several reasons: significantly cheaper, easier to maintain, more power than greddy, instantaneous power (i.e. no lag at all). But hey, this is one guys opinion and opinions are like buttholes....everybodies got one, some just stink worse than others.
I suggest you look into the Dream Workes (DW) and Vortec SC’ers before buying.
The DW SC is a root blower, giving you full boost at low rpm (vs. ATI & Vortec). Yes, it will put out maybe 35hp less than ATI but the ATI is peak hp which is over 6000rpm. Most of the hp found on the ATI is above 5000rpm. The reason is that type of SC has approximately 1 psi of boost per 1000rpm. For example, at 3000rpm, it is putting out only 3psi. In comparison, the DW is putting out full boost at any level thus more power at under 5000rpms. Being practical, you drive a car throughout the rpm range not on a dyno. Peak hp is not everything. The DW SC is supposed to be released in about January. It is suppose to come with a 36K/3 yr warranty on the entire drive train and be CARB legal. In contrast, the ATI and Vortec do not have those warranties or current CARB status.
If you want to compare apples to apples, compare the Vortec to the ATI. Both are almost the same set up except for fuel management. The ATI SC has had some problems with some owners. The problem appears to be too lean an A/F mixture above 5000rpm (oddly the exact rpm you need to go to get real power in that kit). Some people claim theirs is not having a problem because their ATI SC is running ok. Three owners have blown up motors. The Vortec has the ability to retard the timing on its kit which allows the car to keep running rich enough to hopefully not have the lean condition being found on the ATI. Go to superchargersonline.com and read the forum on Vortec's and ATI kits. Read the post by SC owners and see which seem to have the lesser problems.
Do a search on both Vortec and Dream Workes, read up on the details. In December, SportZ magazine is doing a comparison between many SC kits and the PE TT. That data will help you decide as well.
The key to all of these SC and TT kits seems to be tuning and boost level. No one has proven long term success with over 7psi on a stock motor to my knowledge. It could happen but time will determine that. The Greddy kit has the e-manage system. Do you know enough about it to have an informed decision before buying it?
If you have not read up all possible information and talk to people that own the kit you want, I would not buy it yet unless you like taking risks and got the money to do it. In 6 months, all of these kits will be out supposedly, people will have installed them, compared them, and tested their durability.
How bad to do need power right now? If you select a product and then in 6 months find out another product meets your needs better, will that upset you or will you be happy to live with your decision? Have you even tracked your car yet to see what its stock capabilities are before you invest more money? You might be surprised how well it performs stock. If you tracked it before modifying it, you would appreciate the modifications more after driving it on the track both as a stock and modified Z. I can tell you that whatever you are doing on the street, it is not pushing your car to the limits of performance that a track would do.
Everyone has a different approach to selecting a product. I have been doing research on FI kits for the Z every since about Oct 2002. I still have not decided which one I will purchase.
Good luck, I hope this perspective makes you at least think about different issues then you mentioned.
Jeff - zland
Last edited by zland; Nov 15, 2003 at 03:42 PM.
Originally posted by zland
xZlr8:
I suggest you look into the Dream Workes (DW) and Vortec SC’ers before buying.
The DW SC is a root blower, giving you full boost at low rpm (vs. ATI & Vortec). Yes, it will put out maybe 35hp less than ATI but the ATI is peak hp which is over 6000rpm. Most of the hp found on the ATI is above 5000rpm. The reason is that type of SC has approximately 1 psi of boost per 1000rpm. For example, at 3000rpm, it is putting out only 3psi. In comparison, the DW is putting out full boost at any level thus more power at under 5000rpms. Being practical, you drive a car throughout the rpm range not on a dyno. Peak hp is not everything. The DW SC is supposed to be released in about January. It is suppose to come with a 36K/3 yr warranty on the entire drive train and be CARB legal. In contrast, the ATI and Vortec do not have those warranties or current CARB status.
If you want to compare apples to apples, compare the Vortec to the ATI. Both are almost the same set up except for fuel management. The ATI SC has had some problems with some owners. The problem appears to be too lean an A/F mixture above 5000rpm (oddly the exact rpm you need to go to get real power in that kit). Some people claim theirs is not having a problem because their ATI SC is running ok. Three owners have blown up motors. The Vortec has the ability to retard the timing on its kit which allows the car to keep running rich enough to hopefully not have the lean condition being found on the ATI. Go to superchargersonline.com and read the forum on Vortec's and ATI kits. Read the post by SC owners and see which seem to have the lesser problems.
Do a search on both Vortec and Dream Workes, read up on the details. In December, SportZ magazine is doing a comparison between many SC kits and the PE TT. That data will help you decide as well.
The key to all of these SC and TT kits seems to be tuning and boost level. No one has proven long term success with over 7psi on a stock motor to my knowledge. It could happen but time will determine that. The Greddy kit has the e-manage system. Do you know enough about it to have an informed decision before buying it?
If you have not read up all possible information and talk to people that own the kit you want, I would not buy it yet unless you like taking risks and got the money to do it. In 6 months, all of these kits will be out supposedly, people will have installed them, compared them, and tested their durability.
How bad to do need power right now? If you select a product and then in 6 months find out another product meets your needs better, will that upset you or will you be happy to live with your decision? Have you even tracked your car yet to see what its stock capabilities are before you invest more money? You might be surprised how well it performs stock. If you tracked it before modifying it, you would appreciate the modifications more after driving it on the track both as a stock and modified Z. I can tell you that whatever you are doing on the street, it is not pushing your car to the limits of performance that a track would do.
Everyone has a different approach to selecting a product. I have been doing research on FI kits for the Z every since about Oct 2002. I still have not decided which one I will purchase.
Good luck, I hope this perspective makes you at least think about different issues then you mentioned.
Jeff - zland
xZlr8:
I suggest you look into the Dream Workes (DW) and Vortec SC’ers before buying.
The DW SC is a root blower, giving you full boost at low rpm (vs. ATI & Vortec). Yes, it will put out maybe 35hp less than ATI but the ATI is peak hp which is over 6000rpm. Most of the hp found on the ATI is above 5000rpm. The reason is that type of SC has approximately 1 psi of boost per 1000rpm. For example, at 3000rpm, it is putting out only 3psi. In comparison, the DW is putting out full boost at any level thus more power at under 5000rpms. Being practical, you drive a car throughout the rpm range not on a dyno. Peak hp is not everything. The DW SC is supposed to be released in about January. It is suppose to come with a 36K/3 yr warranty on the entire drive train and be CARB legal. In contrast, the ATI and Vortec do not have those warranties or current CARB status.
If you want to compare apples to apples, compare the Vortec to the ATI. Both are almost the same set up except for fuel management. The ATI SC has had some problems with some owners. The problem appears to be too lean an A/F mixture above 5000rpm (oddly the exact rpm you need to go to get real power in that kit). Some people claim theirs is not having a problem because their ATI SC is running ok. Three owners have blown up motors. The Vortec has the ability to retard the timing on its kit which allows the car to keep running rich enough to hopefully not have the lean condition being found on the ATI. Go to superchargersonline.com and read the forum on Vortec's and ATI kits. Read the post by SC owners and see which seem to have the lesser problems.
Do a search on both Vortec and Dream Workes, read up on the details. In December, SportZ magazine is doing a comparison between many SC kits and the PE TT. That data will help you decide as well.
The key to all of these SC and TT kits seems to be tuning and boost level. No one has proven long term success with over 7psi on a stock motor to my knowledge. It could happen but time will determine that. The Greddy kit has the e-manage system. Do you know enough about it to have an informed decision before buying it?
If you have not read up all possible information and talk to people that own the kit you want, I would not buy it yet unless you like taking risks and got the money to do it. In 6 months, all of these kits will be out supposedly, people will have installed them, compared them, and tested their durability.
How bad to do need power right now? If you select a product and then in 6 months find out another product meets your needs better, will that upset you or will you be happy to live with your decision? Have you even tracked your car yet to see what its stock capabilities are before you invest more money? You might be surprised how well it performs stock. If you tracked it before modifying it, you would appreciate the modifications more after driving it on the track both as a stock and modified Z. I can tell you that whatever you are doing on the street, it is not pushing your car to the limits of performance that a track would do.
Everyone has a different approach to selecting a product. I have been doing research on FI kits for the Z every since about Oct 2002. I still have not decided which one I will purchase.
Good luck, I hope this perspective makes you at least think about different issues then you mentioned.
Jeff - zland
Keep up the good work.
I will be installing this kit in 2 weeks and not using Greddy's e-manage and eo-1 which are supplied. I will be running 7lbs of boost and may be the first forum member to post what a disaster is. Hopefully, this will not be the case, and we can prove the VQ can handle it. Any feedback from all the FI gurus will be greatly appreciated. I am building my Z based on the knowledge of one of Greddy's top sellers in the U.S. and the knowledge of Skidazzle's fuel management. I am not as informed as other FI people on this forum and appreciate any and all feedback both good and bad.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Oceanside Ca
Originally posted by t32gzz
I will be installing this kit in 2 weeks and not using Greddy's e-manage and eo-1 which are supplied. I will be running 7lbs of boost and may be the first forum member to post what a disaster is. Hopefully, this will not be the case, and we can prove the VQ can handle it. Any feedback from all the FI gurus will be greatly appreciated. I am building my Z based on the knowledge of one of Greddy's top sellers in the U.S. and the knowledge of Skidazzle's fuel management. I am not as informed as other FI people on this forum and appreciate any and all feedback both good and bad.
I will be installing this kit in 2 weeks and not using Greddy's e-manage and eo-1 which are supplied. I will be running 7lbs of boost and may be the first forum member to post what a disaster is. Hopefully, this will not be the case, and we can prove the VQ can handle it. Any feedback from all the FI gurus will be greatly appreciated. I am building my Z based on the knowledge of one of Greddy's top sellers in the U.S. and the knowledge of Skidazzle's fuel management. I am not as informed as other FI people on this forum and appreciate any and all feedback both good and bad.
I am excited to read your posts regarding this. I suggest you make your own thread entitled something like "Greddy TT kit without e-manage" so we can follow this project. It shoulds like a lot of fun.
Are you having to pay for the emanage portion of the kit? If not, how much does it cost for the kit minus the things you are not using?
Jeff - zland
Zland, the worse part of not using the e-mange and e-01, is the Greddy kit is only being sold as a kit... at least for the first 10 units, which I have already pre-ordered. I am paying for both the e-manage as part of the kit and then also paying for the DFMU, technosquare ecu and safc II. After looking at Skidazzle's a/f ratios while on the dyno, I have been sold.
Also, Jotech, the shop doing the work claims that Greddy's e-manage does not factor in the changes our factory ecu will be making, such as changes in temprature, and worst case scenario, a battery failure, where the ecu resets, and the Greddy e-manage does not.
I will start a separate thread next week as the ordering of the fuel system starts, but since Skidazzle just got his car back, and has given me advice, rides and shared dynos, I don't want to steal his thunder just yet. Look for the new thread in the next week or two with daily updates when the car starts.
Also, Jotech, the shop doing the work claims that Greddy's e-manage does not factor in the changes our factory ecu will be making, such as changes in temprature, and worst case scenario, a battery failure, where the ecu resets, and the Greddy e-manage does not.
I will start a separate thread next week as the ordering of the fuel system starts, but since Skidazzle just got his car back, and has given me advice, rides and shared dynos, I don't want to steal his thunder just yet. Look for the new thread in the next week or two with daily updates when the car starts.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally posted by azrael
last I checked, we have a VQ35DE in our cars, not a K20A2.
Just because the RSX can run 9 psi, doesn't mean the VQ can.
But hey, if you want to, just crank up the boost.. but don't be surprised when you have to call up the Nissan service department for a new short block.
I don't understand why everyone wants to take such a risk with their motor for a few extra horsepower. Maybe I'm the only person here that doesn't have the cash to buy a short block whenever I happen to blow one.
last I checked, we have a VQ35DE in our cars, not a K20A2.
Just because the RSX can run 9 psi, doesn't mean the VQ can.
But hey, if you want to, just crank up the boost.. but don't be surprised when you have to call up the Nissan service department for a new short block.
I don't understand why everyone wants to take such a risk with their motor for a few extra horsepower. Maybe I'm the only person here that doesn't have the cash to buy a short block whenever I happen to blow one.
