Ya, that seems pretty consistent. I was 652hp at 22psi right as the clutch was slipping on a larger 6765 turbo. There is more tq on this 35r because it's a smaller wheel so i would assume the back pressure is higher. Mine was putting more tq down with the smaller hotside because of lack of flow.

so ya, that's a solid e85 curve for a 35r

 

...especially with stock exhaust manifolds.

 

where did he list stock manifolds?

who would build a block, spend all that extra money and not put aftermarket manifolds on a car while the engine is out? Wasted money.

I still don't buy that stock manifolds flow enough after seeing stock verses aftermarket manifold differences on a few builds. The stock manifolds have such a tiny outlet.

intense had aftermarket headers on their 700hp gt37 kit so 80hp difference with tiny manifolds and smaller turbo? doesn't seem right.

 

I’ve seen his Saad’s Z first hand; he’s always at our local Saturday night AZ meet and he definitely had the stock exhaust manifolds on that car. I kept the stock manifolds because of his car too, lol.

 

interesting. blows my mind that someone would spend 2500$ on an ems, 3500 built block plus the huge fuel system and they don't spend 400$ on something simple like higher flowing headers. Especially for a system that relies on exhaust gas to spin the power producer.

 

The results are there though…

 

Actually, the Intense widebody G had stock manifolds during the dyno runs with the GT37R. Only a driver side header was installed for the 76S dynos to allow the fitment of the larger 3.5" downpipe. The car still had a stock passenger side manifold during the 906whp dyno run. I was there during those dyno runs and saw it with my own eyes.

 

see, i don't get that. That makes me worry if a shop will cut corners with their own car instead of just taking the time to put the other header on to dyno the car. I don't get why people on this platform do stupid things.

 

Pretty sad that nothing has become the new benchmark since then.

 

Doing R&D on a shop car prior to production is stupid??? I'm glad they maxed out the PowerLab kit and tested the limits of the stock exhaust manifolds prior to selling the kit to the general public. Cutting corners? IMO, an egregious example of "cutting corners" is insufficient R&D prior to marketing and selling your product to the public, and instead letting your customers be guinea pigs to max out and push the limits of a kit that you never fully tested yourself. *cough*

 

I think both of you have valid points, but I do like it when a shop pushes the bare minimums first. That's a lot more customer friendly, and I appreciate that more than doing everything "perfectly" aka expensively.

But on a side note, those stock headers are pretty thick and are not going to break easily. And exhaust manifolds for turbochargers need to be smooth, not large diameter for flow. And harsh edges don't damage flow nearly as much as people think. Yes it does slow down velocities, but in most street applications it's something you can live with.
The thing is the piping on powerlab kits is so long that those initial runners can be a pretty small diameter, there's enough volume and length that it won't bottle neck soon as as you are imagining. They'd only need to be changed if the oem headers choke the motor, and based off the low hp people pick up with headers (even with tuning), the idea that they aren't too restrictive makes sense.

 

R&D that has never been able to be reproduced on another vehicle with their system installed.

and if headers weren't an issue then other kits using them can't be considered to use customers as "guinea pigs" since there would be no reason to upgrade. So you basically invalidated your own comment.

 

Ummm... somebody else in this thread reproduced similar results with the kit and stock headers. LOL So your selective reading and/or memory invalidates your comment.

 

so 1 for every 20 that have posted they coudn't break 500hp with built block, cams, meth, etc....and with only the 35r he fell 300hp short of the 37r that nobody has been able to reproduce.

So now we have 2 cars with PL kits that are over 600hp when it was "easy" for the r&d car to do 900. hmm....should be a bunch of 900hp cars running around here with all the PL sales from last year.

 

C'mon Jeff.

99% of "all the PL sales from last year" were standard GT35R kits. There are only a few guys out there with the 37R and I have yet to see any of them on this forum max out their 37R with C16 or Q16. Same goes for the 35R guys. Instead, this FI forum has fixated on a d**k swinging & s**t talking contest about pump gas numbers or pump gas + water/meth, rather than comparing apples to apples with Intense's original C16 dyno numbers. You haven't seen more people replicate Intense's results because more people haven't attempted to max their kits on C16. I sincerely believe that EMS and/or tuner choice are also huge factors. Having ProEFI tuned by Jason Siebels himself is a definite advantage. I don't think he leaves much horsepower on the table. In addition, the Intense G had Tomei 280 duration cams during those dynos with the 35R, 37R, and 76S turbos. I'm sure that's a significant factor as well.

And the reason there aren't a bunch of 900whp PowerLab cars is because there is only one car besides the Intense widebody G that has the 76S version of the kit.

 

ya, i was thinking the 900 hp was the 37r. My confusion.

I removed what i stated because i think it's leading down the wrong path.

I want to add that i think my negativity towards the header flow is being projected as negativity towards powerlab. This is not the case. They are just the only company that claims (i can't even directly say they as a company even claim it) that the stock headers flow just fine and and upgrade is not needed to produce power. I know they have racegas cars that produce big numbers but with those kits pumpgas to pumpgas there are shops that have seen that the power falls off. Change in the headers shows an improvement. ya they could get more out of the kit with race gas but it's the octane and tuning causing the power and not an increase in flow.

If stock headers flowed great then why does momentum who makes a similar kit promote the use of their headers to get more flow and power? Many other shops also use headers to provide more flow and power when trying to gain more power with the same fuel used.

I'm going to just PM you later rude to discuss the header situation because i'm not trying to make any particular kit look bad. I'm just against what that specific company claims the stock headers are good for.

 

I think I was one of the first powerlab owner's with after market headers with this kit. I used the kit on a stock block revup and hit 400whp/400 lbs torque without any issues and so did the people with stock manifolds. The one thing that was noted at the time was that I made power all the way to redline (7200 rpms)where as other were hitting peak power in the low 6000's rpm range.

 

I have noticed the same thing with the BP kit (and every other ST kit for that matter) that once you hit about 6000rpm with OEM headers on the stock block, the power will start to fall off.

These are same BP kits, same turbos, same brand dynos.... can you guess which one has the OEM headers?

Here at about 5800RPM:





Here is another customer with a 6262 T4 .58 on a different dyno (stock block, 9psi), do you think he has headers?:



That is my constructive contribution to this thread, which is now way off topic... This is my experience with the OEM headers so far, some may disagree, and that is fine. I am not going to argue about it.

 

ok, i put my reply in the wrong thread...too many windows open.

 

Did the op purchase either of these kits?