Engine Management Solution, I found one.
Originally posted by phunk
im not... stock injectors are in the car. once we install the FCON we will put in 720cc or larger injectors.
im not... stock injectors are in the car. once we install the FCON we will put in 720cc or larger injectors.
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From: austin
Originally posted by phunk
azrael: i definatly understand what you are saying. I am also glad that you understand HKS' decision to keep it real.
However, keep in mind, there are other devices that could be included for end user adjustments. This way if small changes are made down the road, they could accomodate them. But for any major tuning, a Pro-Dealer is required.
It sounds like you got your end taken care of, but this is a very good option for someone who just wants their car done and doesnt want to have constantly tinker and tune it.
I am expected to catch a lot of flak (sp?) for offering this as a solution. I know everyone would like to be able to tune their car. The fact remains that 90% of people in this industry are not qualified nor have the proper equiptment to tune their car properly. The people that this rule applies to, who have the awareness that its a lot easier said than done (properly), have no need to have any adjustment control at all. Its just like buying a pretuned JWT ECU for your fully built twin turbo 300ZX... works like a charm and you never need to screw with it... for as much HP as you could ever want.
My goal is to provide a tuned fuel system capable of 800rwhp that would require no later adjustments unless there were major changes to the engines volumetric efficiency.
-Charles
azrael: i definatly understand what you are saying. I am also glad that you understand HKS' decision to keep it real.
However, keep in mind, there are other devices that could be included for end user adjustments. This way if small changes are made down the road, they could accomodate them. But for any major tuning, a Pro-Dealer is required.
It sounds like you got your end taken care of, but this is a very good option for someone who just wants their car done and doesnt want to have constantly tinker and tune it.
I am expected to catch a lot of flak (sp?) for offering this as a solution. I know everyone would like to be able to tune their car. The fact remains that 90% of people in this industry are not qualified nor have the proper equiptment to tune their car properly. The people that this rule applies to, who have the awareness that its a lot easier said than done (properly), have no need to have any adjustment control at all. Its just like buying a pretuned JWT ECU for your fully built twin turbo 300ZX... works like a charm and you never need to screw with it... for as much HP as you could ever want.
My goal is to provide a tuned fuel system capable of 800rwhp that would require no later adjustments unless there were major changes to the engines volumetric efficiency.
-Charles
This, combined with your upcoming engine packages sounds like an unbeatable combo. You'll certainly become one of the top names in 350Z tuning in the near future.
Originally posted by Guru
The TS reflash will not remap for the 440's at part throttle so I assume he is using E-Manage.
The TS reflash will not remap for the 440's at part throttle so I assume he is using E-Manage.
It is what I have been waiting for, so he has the ECU reflash for the GReddy w/ 440cc injectors
stay tuned....
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From: So Cal
Re: e-manage
Originally posted by mjedens
Besides controlling fuel (440 injectors) I'm able to take timing out using the e-manage. (I'm a n2o junkie)
Besides controlling fuel (440 injectors) I'm able to take timing out using the e-manage. (I'm a n2o junkie)
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From: So Cal
Originally posted by gq_model_626
So if the eManage isn't controlling timing, that what the heck is it's purpose, other than controlling 440cc injectors that the car doesnt even need until you get to really hi boost levels.
So if the eManage isn't controlling timing, that what the heck is it's purpose, other than controlling 440cc injectors that the car doesnt even need until you get to really hi boost levels.
Too bad they haven't figure out how to incorporate the ignition harness so that we can take some timing off the top.
Sorry to hijack your thread Charles. Keep us updated on how the HKS FCON system turns out.
Jeff
Last edited by 350Now; Mar 20, 2004 at 07:16 AM.
Originally posted by jesseenglish
Piggyback = a system that alters sensors to trick the ECU into sending out the appropriate engine control signals or alters signals that originated in the stock ECU.
Standalone = a system that has total control of all engine management. Does not rely on ECU to provide anything.
Piggyback = a system that alters sensors to trick the ECU into sending out the appropriate engine control signals or alters signals that originated in the stock ECU.
Standalone = a system that has total control of all engine management. Does not rely on ECU to provide anything.
Thanks,
Az
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From: So Cal
Re: E-Manage
Originally posted by mjedens
Got everything from Ultimate Racing! Ignition wiring,Injector wiring, 440 injectors, fuel pump, and e-manage.
Got everything from Ultimate Racing! Ignition wiring,Injector wiring, 440 injectors, fuel pump, and e-manage.
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CJ Motorsports
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Greddy will be the first to tell you not to run their ignition harness in the 350z. Their RSX turbo kit came with the harness to retard timing on the top, and I know they would have supplied it with the much much more expensive 350z kit if it worked.
I was told that it will cause the coils, or ignitors, or some crap to fail. They must have had some type of problem in their test car... hopefully you will have no problems like this.
I was told that it will cause the coils, or ignitors, or some crap to fail. They must have had some type of problem in their test car... hopefully you will have no problems like this.
I was going to ask about other pro dealers (specifically if there was one in Texas), but found this page - I think there are more than 4 in the US 
(Unless this isn't the same thing you're talking about) Congrats on joining the club of pro dealers tho and thanks for the tip on engine management options.
(Unless this isn't the same thing you're talking about) Congrats on joining the club of pro dealers tho and thanks for the tip on engine management options.
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CJ Motorsports
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polar: that is the same thing i am talking about... there are 2 lists tho... I *THINK* that is an out-dated list and is no longer accurate... but I could definatly be incorrect.
The more authorized Pro-Dealers the better.... because then you guys can just pick up our FCON V Pro install kit with base map and then have it tuned somewhere locally without having to ship us your car to have it tuned here in Chicago.
I cant wait for this system to show up... I am confident that it will be a hit and hope that I can use this system to help all you guys in need of greater engine control.
The more authorized Pro-Dealers the better.... because then you guys can just pick up our FCON V Pro install kit with base map and then have it tuned somewhere locally without having to ship us your car to have it tuned here in Chicago.
I cant wait for this system to show up... I am confident that it will be a hit and hope that I can use this system to help all you guys in need of greater engine control.
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From: Las Vegas
Originally posted by phunk
Greddy will be the first to tell you not to run their ignition harness in the 350z. Their RSX turbo kit came with the harness to retard timing on the top, and I know they would have supplied it with the much much more expensive 350z kit if it worked.
I was told that it will cause the coils, or ignitors, or some crap to fail. They must have had some type of problem in their test car... hopefully you will have no problems like this.
Greddy will be the first to tell you not to run their ignition harness in the 350z. Their RSX turbo kit came with the harness to retard timing on the top, and I know they would have supplied it with the much much more expensive 350z kit if it worked.
I was told that it will cause the coils, or ignitors, or some crap to fail. They must have had some type of problem in their test car... hopefully you will have no problems like this.
Did anyone ever find out for sure (no guessing please we already did that) if the E-Manage uses MAF signal or injector duty cycle changes when you set up larger injectors?
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CJ Motorsports
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swinke: I am no electrical engineer but I would have to think that it is impossible for the E-Manage to drop duty cycle for larger injectors since it only taps into the injector wires rather then intercepts them. IMHO the only way it could do it is by MAF signal drops... which I was also told it did by a tech at Greddy some time ago... who could have been incorrect... but I would have to say it simply must drop the MAF signal... unless someone can tell me why I should think otherwise.
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From: Las Vegas
Originally posted by phunk
swinke: I am no electrical engineer but I would have to think that it is impossible for the E-Manage to drop duty cycle for larger injectors since it only taps into the injector wires rather then intercepts them. IMHO the only way it could do it is by MAF signal drops... which I was also told it did by a tech at Greddy some time ago... who could have been incorrect... but I would have to say it simply must drop the MAF signal... unless someone can tell me why I should think otherwise.
swinke: I am no electrical engineer but I would have to think that it is impossible for the E-Manage to drop duty cycle for larger injectors since it only taps into the injector wires rather then intercepts them. IMHO the only way it could do it is by MAF signal drops... which I was also told it did by a tech at Greddy some time ago... who could have been incorrect... but I would have to say it simply must drop the MAF signal... unless someone can tell me why I should think otherwise.
How much do you see your shop charging for the base maps and primary tuning that I am not allowed to do by HKS?
I hate the "no self tuning" part but I really need to get to the next level. ......so really, how much you want for the PRO software? 500...1000....3 hookers and donkey? We can work this out!
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CJ Motorsports
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I couldnt possibly void my contract by releasing the software... its too important to me...
but otherwise... I am not quite sure what final costs will be until our car is at least running with the system. However I will be doing R&D with MAF meters and if its succesful, then we should be able to ship systems that require little to no tuning at all. I would need to know a few details about the engine, such as injector size, and then we could run a MAF system thats capable of greater airflow then stock and its possible that you could just install the kit and need no more tuning... or if you did need more tuning overnight the unit to us for some changes just for your car, then have it sent right back immediatly... or of course just come on down to Chicago where we are or to any other Pro Dealer to have your custom map made from scratch on your car where you can contribute to the tuning.
only time will tell exactly how this is going to work out. I have plans already written out... but its rare that things go as planned so I want to keep my mouth shut until I have something to put on the table for you.
but otherwise... I am not quite sure what final costs will be until our car is at least running with the system. However I will be doing R&D with MAF meters and if its succesful, then we should be able to ship systems that require little to no tuning at all. I would need to know a few details about the engine, such as injector size, and then we could run a MAF system thats capable of greater airflow then stock and its possible that you could just install the kit and need no more tuning... or if you did need more tuning overnight the unit to us for some changes just for your car, then have it sent right back immediatly... or of course just come on down to Chicago where we are or to any other Pro Dealer to have your custom map made from scratch on your car where you can contribute to the tuning.
only time will tell exactly how this is going to work out. I have plans already written out... but its rare that things go as planned so I want to keep my mouth shut until I have something to put on the table for you.
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From: Toronto, Canada
phunk
The HKS FCON Pro is a fantastic standalone from what I've seen. Definitely on par with most of the top Australian EMS units.
However, I would almost never suggest a standalone ems to a customer unless they knew a great deal about engine dynamics and had good experience tuning standalones.
It's true, standalones are a huge trend right now. For the most part, AEM did a great job in marketing their EMS. We are constantly seeing shops make great power on the dyno using standalones. This is the way it should be. Standalones are fantastic for making power if you know what you're doing. But has anyone thought about what the effects are on daily driving?
In a nutshell, (and I hope this doesn't come out to harsh), any Joe Shmoe can tune WOT but, it take a great deal of patience and know-how to tune the rest.
Most people don't know what they're getting themselves into when they purchase a standalone. They tend to think it's a magical box that will cure all their fueling and ignition gremlins. Let me ask you this though, are you guys prepared to keep a laptop, a wideband, and an array of gauges in your car at all times for the next year? Making changes at every traffic light whenever the idle dips too low or stalls? Not being able to start your car on a very cold morning? All of this NEEDS to be tuned at one point. I have a good friend that drives a Grand National. He's a distributor for the FAST (SpeedPro) EMS system. He's got the unit in his own car and it took him a year before he got 90% of the problems worked out. Even still, the car does not run as well as it did stock.
This is something that scares me. We've been in business for over 12 years now and have met quite a few customers from around the globe. If there's one thing we've learned it's that customers tend to forget they're modifying their car. It will not run exactly as it did stock. There will be some minor glitches here and there that you will have to put up with with.
I have the AEM EMS in my own DSM. Being in cold cold Canada, it took me a little under a week to get the car started and idling nicely this past winter. I'm sure I can easily take it to the dyno now and tune it to make 500whp easily. That would impress everyone wouldn't it? Too bad it will probably stall at every traffic light, and I'll probably have troubles starting it when we start seeing spring time temperatures. Luckily, this is not my daily driver and I have another car at my disposal to get to and from work. These are things that we never hear about but are very much reality.
This is why we use piggyback computers. Bottom line is, you just can't beat the drivability of the stock ECU. Let it handle all the mundane functions that allow you to drive your car normally day in and day out.
A piggyback computer will take us under 2 hours to tune (and that's pushing it) which is why we recommend it to customers. They generally don't want to lose any drivability. If I were to suggest a standalone EMS to a novice, I can guarantee you that I'd be married to the car for the next 6 months at least. I'd be getting calls about just about everything from no starts to rough idles.
In Toronto, we get very hot summers and very cold winters. If temperature was constant all year round then tuning would be easy. Some of you may live in areas where temperatures don't fluctuate as much, but the rest of you are in the same boat as us.
Well thats my 2 cents. Remember though, I am not against standalones at all. I think they are fantastic and definitely make great power. They're just not as easy to tune as marketing dictates. Definitely, not for everyone.
Darryl
The HKS FCON Pro is a fantastic standalone from what I've seen. Definitely on par with most of the top Australian EMS units.
However, I would almost never suggest a standalone ems to a customer unless they knew a great deal about engine dynamics and had good experience tuning standalones.
It's true, standalones are a huge trend right now. For the most part, AEM did a great job in marketing their EMS. We are constantly seeing shops make great power on the dyno using standalones. This is the way it should be. Standalones are fantastic for making power if you know what you're doing. But has anyone thought about what the effects are on daily driving?
In a nutshell, (and I hope this doesn't come out to harsh), any Joe Shmoe can tune WOT but, it take a great deal of patience and know-how to tune the rest.
Most people don't know what they're getting themselves into when they purchase a standalone. They tend to think it's a magical box that will cure all their fueling and ignition gremlins. Let me ask you this though, are you guys prepared to keep a laptop, a wideband, and an array of gauges in your car at all times for the next year? Making changes at every traffic light whenever the idle dips too low or stalls? Not being able to start your car on a very cold morning? All of this NEEDS to be tuned at one point. I have a good friend that drives a Grand National. He's a distributor for the FAST (SpeedPro) EMS system. He's got the unit in his own car and it took him a year before he got 90% of the problems worked out. Even still, the car does not run as well as it did stock.
This is something that scares me. We've been in business for over 12 years now and have met quite a few customers from around the globe. If there's one thing we've learned it's that customers tend to forget they're modifying their car. It will not run exactly as it did stock. There will be some minor glitches here and there that you will have to put up with with.
I have the AEM EMS in my own DSM. Being in cold cold Canada, it took me a little under a week to get the car started and idling nicely this past winter. I'm sure I can easily take it to the dyno now and tune it to make 500whp easily. That would impress everyone wouldn't it? Too bad it will probably stall at every traffic light, and I'll probably have troubles starting it when we start seeing spring time temperatures. Luckily, this is not my daily driver and I have another car at my disposal to get to and from work. These are things that we never hear about but are very much reality.
This is why we use piggyback computers. Bottom line is, you just can't beat the drivability of the stock ECU. Let it handle all the mundane functions that allow you to drive your car normally day in and day out.
A piggyback computer will take us under 2 hours to tune (and that's pushing it) which is why we recommend it to customers. They generally don't want to lose any drivability. If I were to suggest a standalone EMS to a novice, I can guarantee you that I'd be married to the car for the next 6 months at least. I'd be getting calls about just about everything from no starts to rough idles.
In Toronto, we get very hot summers and very cold winters. If temperature was constant all year round then tuning would be easy. Some of you may live in areas where temperatures don't fluctuate as much, but the rest of you are in the same boat as us.
Well thats my 2 cents. Remember though, I am not against standalones at all. I think they are fantastic and definitely make great power. They're just not as easy to tune as marketing dictates. Definitely, not for everyone.
Darryl