greddyZ

Guys,

First off, this is an incredible forum. Not only the best 350Z site but also one of the best automotive technical forums out there. Kudos to the sponsors, moderators, and contributors. Ok...now that my first post butt kissing is out of the way...

My questions:

I have been researching on this forum the best setup for my Greddy Twin Turbo kit when I purchase and install it in about a month. I plan to use the following (any suggestions would be aprpeciated too):

Greddy TT Kit
Greddy Intercooler
Greddy EVO 2 Cat-back exhaust
Greddy Profec B-Spec II
Greddy Turbo Timer
Greddy BOV Type S
Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
Unorthodox Racing Pulley Kit
Unorthodox Racing Lightened Flywheel
Stock Cats
6 psi boost.

Now I have read that you guys have had the experience that the kit is not tuned properly for the 2004 model ECU's in comparison to the 2003 models. So...

1.) First, off...do I need the Profec and Type S BOV if I am only running 6 psi. Or will that be necessary since I want to run a little over what comes stock with the TT kit?

2.) Should I keep the e-manage and all its optional accessories (ignition/fuel/etc. controls) to tune it myself (or more than likely by professional) or should I go to technosquare for a custom ECU?

3.) If I go for the updated Technosquare ECU, will I still need my BOV, Profec, and e-manage? What is eliminated? What is kept?

4.) What are the cons and benefits for the e-manage versus the Technosquare ECU?

5.) Would I need some detonation protection for both the Technosquare and e-Manage in the form of the J&S safeguard still or the does a properly tuned e-manage or ECu eliminate that threat?

Please help me with this. This is my first run into the land of running and tuning a Japanese car. I am a convert from the Mustang garage! Can't wait to hear your recommendations.

basam350z

iTrader: (1)

1) As someone said before a BOV is as optional as GAS, but the Profec is not necessary to raise boost. You can do this by tightening the screws on the wastegates or getting a manual boost controller from Turbo XS. Make sure you pick up a boost guage though, to make sure your boost doesn't go up w/o you knowing.

2) GQ_626 , ETX and others have have good experiences with the emanage and have even conjured up a way to get the emanage to retard timing under boost. This is a good idea. Techno can also take out timing, but the good thing about techno is I believe they can also advance timing in the lower RPM. This is necessary for boosted cars because of the small restriction turbos put on the engine in the lower RPM. Bad thing about techno is you have to send in the ECU and if you boost more or less, you'll have to send it back.

If you don't consider yourself a professional turbo Z tuner, then you probably shouldn't do the tuning on your own. That reminds me, if you don't have a Profec, you'll need the e-manage support software to changes the emanage settings.

3) You'll always need a BOV and you don't have to have the e-manage with a techno ECU, but even after techno re-maps the ECU you'll need something to fine tune it (Apexi AFC).

4) I plan to use Techno for advancing time and uping the Rev-limiter and also using the e-manage. Unless AEM releases the EMS for our cars. The e-manage is fully tunable right where you are, techno is in cali.

5) E-manage can have the timing harness added, but make sure to use the diods and follow ETX and GQ's instructions. Techno can be re-maped for timing and J&S is cool as well.

If you are getting the Walbro, you'll also need an FMU to manage the fuel. This requires some sort of return line, unless you turn the pump on at a certain RPM.

There are probably a lot of holes in my post, but I'm sure everyone else will fill them in.

greddyZ

basam350z, thanks for the quick and informative reply. Man...I didn't realize it could get so deep and complex! So you are saying that it is possible to control most all parameters through the e-manage including timing and fuel? If so, that is great! If not, no good. I don't want to keep having to add different systems to control my setup...

What was that about the Walbro? I thought it just replaced the stock one? And then I would have to add anohter fuel computer? Man...I thought Greddy put more thought into there system than I had originally thought.

What I am really after, is that once I am through with the intial tuning stage and get it how I like it, I want to drive it like that for a while without having to constantly adjust the electronics to keep it running properly (with in reason...I understand that aftermarket boosting of N/A engines will not have the robustness of a factory setup). I just want to be able to enjoy it for long periods of time without constant visits to my tuner. That is why I am seeking the answers to my questions above. To get my Z with the proper equipment and not have umteen jillion different control units inmy cockpit monitoring my setup. If I can, I would like to keep it to one or two units (e-manage, profec or Techno).

Does this sound unreasonable? Or am I off in a beginner's fantasy?

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Here are a few tips and tricks.

1) You'll need a BOV regardless of what tuning method you choose.

2) If your goal is to to run the kit in the sub 6psi range, you'll be totally fine out of the box. You wont a TS reflash or anything else. As mentioned in my previous thread on this topic, you'll just want to dyno test to make sure your AF's are OK, and listen for pinging during your road test. If you run 93 octane gas...you should be in good shape. If you are running 91 octane just pay special attention when you road test..and listen for pinging.

3) As you increase boost, you'll want to add fuel and retard timing...which can easily do with the eManage. You will need the Walbro 255 and a 1:1 FPR and small return line if you intend to run more than 6.5psi safely. 12SecZ is experimenting with the Walbro 190, and if he is successful, you may not even need an FPR up till about 8.5psi.....the jury is still out on that one.

4) Please Please.....get the e-01 instead of the SpecII. They are both boost controllers, but the e-01 is an eManage programmer/viewer....and the eManage is kinda limited without it. I consider it almost a necessity. Yes, its about $150 more than the SpecII, but so capable and convient...consider it a must have.

5) TS vs. eManage. A modded ECU is the safest and easiest way to go. TS has figured it all out for us. However, I am not certain they can scale those 440cc injectors. The eManage has the benifit of being able to easy tune for different boost conditions, and make changes on the fly. If you are more of the "tuner" type....I would go with eManage...if you like a "set-it-and-forget-it" approach, then I would go TS.

Again, if you REALLY believe you'll leave the boost alone for months, then you can skip the Profec, TS Reflash and timing harness. And just do the BOV and run the stock kit out of the box.

Also get a boost guage and personally, I would get a wideband AEM or similar device...just to insure you are running proper AF's at all times. Good Luck!

greddyZ

Thanks for the reply gq_636! Much appreciated information.

So from what your saying, the Greddy TT Kit can run without a boost controller and just the e-manage and BOV? If so, what kind of power would I be looking at with it, the EVO2 exhaust, the lightened flywheel, and pulleys?

If I decide to upgrade at a later date, what kind of boost would I be looking at to need the Profec, Safeguard Unit, and timing harness? Up to what point would I need to upgrade internals? lastly, what level would require additional fuel and controllers?

Also, I gather that TS has already got a solution for Greddy TT kit owners from what you said?

Please let me know.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

With an Evo2 exhuast at 6psi and Hi-Flow cats, you'll be looking at about 360-370whp. Stock cats are very restictive...if you use them.....I would reduce those figures by about 20-30hp....that is consistent with what others with the Greddy kit with stock cats and aftermarket exhuast have pulled. The pulleys and stuff may add a coupe HP up top..but not much....probably just more meat under the curve.

The Profec is NEEDED to change the boost..its not optional. The only way to increase the boost is with a boost controller. Technically, you could increase the boost to whatever...but realistically, nobody has gone past 10.5psi...and that is with fuel system upgrades and some tuning.

J&S Safeguard is not needed if you use the eManage timing harness. They both do the same thing...retard the timing. Actually, you cant use them both simultaneously...you should only tap the ingitional signal wire once. The J&S has not been realiable and consistenly installed on the 350Z F/I. There are only couple people on the boards that have used it....and it has blown coils on a G35...John told this to me. I am a bit reluctant to even recommend it until its tested on two recent cars or so. JessieEnglish is using it and its very effective...the installtion process is what concerns me most. In theory, it is a great way to retard timing and have an automatic "Safeguard" as well. Price is a bit steep though...about $550 with shipping and the adaptor block you'll need since the J&S oil has 4 ingition outputs. I see the J&S more on the ATI SC installs, becuase that kit doesnt have a timing solution availible to it...so folks have been going the J&S route.

The limit of the stock internals is also unknown. Many are running 415whp without problems. 8.5psi.....and Skidazzle is the reighning chanmp at 455whp at 10.5psi. All stock internals.

A fuel pump/FPR upgrade is necessary on anyting about 6.5psi or so..maybe 7psi tops depending on how daring you are. I mentioned that in my first post.

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

Hey

4) you definitely want to get the Profec-E01, not the Profec II... I still believe that TS flash is by far the most reliable solution ... the obvious drawbacks: if you are not in Cali, you can't simply "drive in" for a tune, and that you are set at a certain boost level OR lower (of course at a lower-than-tuned-for boost, you are safe, as the timing isretarded, just not at optimal power production). Also, the stock ECU cannot control the RC injectors, you are gonna need e-manage to do that. So to have a no-piggyback TS setup, you are going to need to get the PE 380cc injectors (around $900).

Each has its significant advantages.

Gurgen

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

In a perfect world...this would be my ultimate option.

TS gets control of the 440cc injectors. I think the reason they can't currently do this is because injectors dont like to fire for less than 2 milliseconds. And to scale these injectors from the stockers is not possible without MAF conditioning..which..of course..and ECU reflash cannot faciliate. So I think TS is stuck...but ya know...i bet they could reduce IWP enough to get the car running, but it would just idle a bit rough, and might be too rich in the lower RPM bands and during cruise. But again, in a perfect world, I'd want a TS reflash at 8.5 with iginition retard.

THEN....i would still install the eManage and use that for fine tuning both fuel and timing when turning the boost up. So you'd have the best of booth worlds. A solid ECU based mapping at 8.5psi, and the ability to increase boost and tweak AF/Timing on the fly....for higher boost or additional mods )

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

Sharif, what you are describing is being currently run by TS, just on PE injectors... the ECU cannot control the RC's because of their nature (simple on/off). Todashi had a PE kit run up to 8.5-9psi without any problems - and without running into MAF issues.

I agree with you, a well tuned TS ECU and e-manage give you ultimate control and the most flexible solution...

Gurgen

greddyZ

Thanks again guys. I really appreciate the help and information. What I think I am going to do is just run the Greddy TT kit out of the box with just e-Manage. I think the out of the box kit is set at 5.6 psi. Is this right? I will of course have the pulleys, Iridium spark plugs, and EVO2 cat-back exhaust. And after looking at what others have on their cars and what you guys are recommending, I will add some sport cats to the list. Oh...can't forget the BOV's too!

So again, just to be sure, I will be OK with this set-up with out having to worry about detonation, right? And I probably will from time to time have to take it to the tuner for "tune-ups", correct?

And my last question, with the above mods and the Turbo kit only running its out of the box setting of 5.6 psi (?), I can expect 360-370 hp right? That is of course at the crank.

Please let me know.

basam350z

iTrader: (1)

GreddyZ, out of the box with a BOV you should be fine. From what I've seen HP should be betweeb 345-365 after it is tuned. The HP will be lower out of the box because Greddy has their kits run a little rich in the higher RPMs. This is what I intend on doing.

Stage 2 I'll being adding Timing via emanage, a fuel pump, an adjustable fuel regulator with return line and a boost controler of some sort.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Gurgen, i was thinking about this...and also about our conversation on the same topic during last weeks Laker Game.

I dont think the PE injectors are any different mechanically that the RC's. To my knowledge...all injectors are simple on off switches. Either they are spraying fuel...or they are not. The ECU/eManage is controlling the length of the injector pulse width only...and that determines fuel enrichment. This time space is between 2ms at idle to about 20ms at redline. This doesnt change whether you use PE's or RC's. One big reason PE and others went with the 380's is becuase they have plug-n-play harness clips, so you dont have to hack and splice the injectors into the stock wiring, like I had to do with my 440's

I am pretty confident that the reason they cant do the 440's is the 440's dont like to fire for less than 1.7ms or so...so you get a lumpy idle. You need to condition the MAF signal in order to scale those injectors...and TS cant do this with a relfash....obviously. I think that is the limitation..,maybe Cheston can confirm since he talks to Tadashi often.



Greddy Z....yes, the kit is preset to 5.6psi...roughly...most people have been getting about 5psi due to leaks at the wastgate.

Oh, yes...the wastegates. Please do yourself the biggest favor in the world and buy some Deltgate Gate Wastegate gaskets from Turbonetics. The stock Greddy gaskets are total garbage...they are made of paper, and I burned through them. So now I have an annoying squeak and decel, and my car sounds a bit like a Corvette at idle and accel.. Get those gaskets and install them in place of the greddy paper ones. Otherwise, you'll be like me and 350Now...in a world of hurt. Get this.....you cant remove the wastegates without removeing the downpipe adaptor and dropping your cats. And one of the bolts on the downpipe adaptor is all by IMPOSSIBLE to remove. Eric had to order a special tool fro Snap-On just to get that darn thing off. Replaceing those wastgate gaskets is almost as challening as installing the kit..no joke. The deltagate gaskets are $5/each and you'll need four of them

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

GQ,

I understand completely what you are saying. But my many conversations with Danny led me to the belief that it is fact that there are other differences than just the capacity between PE and RC. He also mantioned that RC injectors are more suited for german cars ... whatever that means... than Japanese. That conversation was rather hurried and I didn't have a chance to clarify things. I do hope that Cheston will weigh in on this, but I will certainly have a conversation about this with Todashi on Monday... and report back.

P.S. It's too bad that you are moving to N.C., SoCal is losing a cool member (and a cool car)!

Gurgen

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Thanks Gurgen...I am moving to NC...but I'll still be trolling the F/I Forum. You cant get rid of me that easily!!! It was fun hanging out with you..and best of like with your G35.

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

Thanks,

Same to you...

greddyZ

Wow...very interesting gq_626. I will definitely place an order for the gaskets when the time comes. Since I am installing sport cats now, I will have everything (cats, exhaust, turbo kit, and intercooler) installed all at once in addition to those gaskets so hopefully it won't be such a difficult project.

But...by what you are telling me gq...with these gaskets...the turbo kit stock should be at its prescibed level of 5.6 psi boost rather than the 5 psi the leak prone users have been seeing? Is this right?

Also...one last point of confusion for me...with the stock out of the box boost setting of 5.6 psi...I will not have any need for the timing harness and injector mapping option abilities of the e-manage yet? Or will it be a good idea to have that istalled as well for future upgrades? What do you think?

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Thats correct...you will likely be closer to 5.6psi. And no tuning is necessary at that level....even up to 6psi you dont need any tuning. Personally, I would just go ahead and get the timing harness (make sure to install the $6 in diodes on the harness output wires to keep the coils from overheating). The timing harness is only $30 or so. You dont actually have to retard the timing at all...but just have the harness installed for future use.

350Now

It is also possible the difference between the RC 440 and PE 380 is that the PE I think is a 10 pin injector and the RC are 3 pins. Pin being the injector spray pins.

GreddyZ, as GQ mentioned it's a pain to remove the wastegates to replace the gaskets. Do yourself a favor and replace the cheap paper greddy gasket with the one from Turbonetics. Also great plan to have cats / exhaust / tt / IC all done at once.

5thgenluder

GQ
Is it just as difficult to replace the cats after the kit is on as the wastegates or would that be something thats still easy to do in the future. Or in other words would I have to remove that impossible bolt u speak of. Thanks in advance for the reply and keep up the great Greddy posts. Thanks James

350Now

You can remove the cats easily. It's just to remove the wastegate on the Greddy TT you will have to remove the downpipe which is a pain in the ****..