You weren't pulling any timing before, were you? That would obviously make a difference.

--Steve

 

Hey Ed, glad to see that everything worked out with AAM. Sorry, I don't have anything constructive to say about your dyno graph unfortunately. I can only mention the obvious things.... timing and plugs. What plugs are you running and what are they gapped at? How much timing are you pulling throughout the RPM band? Since you know your boost level is correct and your A/F ratio looks awesome, there's not a whole lot of other things to mention.

 

They are the NKG spark plugs. They are "one step colder" plugs than stock. Not sure of the gap. I plan on having them checked but I'll need to talk with AAM to know what gapping to set them at. They could probably do it and then ship them to me for install.

As for the timing, I have e-mailed AAM to see if they can send me the exact numbers they used but they are using the TS program for FI if that tells you anything. I know it can be adjusted though and I'm sure they customized it a bit.

I did not have the timing pulled last year. What you see on the original dyno was stock timing.

I agree that the HP curve looks better (more usable HP) and stays up all the way until peak but I still figured I would be seeing much better numbers.

McDuck with his vortec at 9 psi was over 400 WHP. I have seen a lot of ATI's with 7 psi at 370 WHP. Maybe they have more agressive timing. I don't know.

 

This is true about the timing,a difference of 1 degree can kill HP.The important thing is that you gained a good amount of HP in the RPM range where it is most usable. After all How much time do you spend at 6500 rpms??Oh and another thing, I would not take advantage of that 7000 rpm revlimiter on stock internals and heads, you WILL bend a rod doing so.
You car will FEEL and IS much faster look at the huge gains you made from 2500rpms and up!!Although the TQ readings seem way low!!I believe AA dynos in 3rd gear also.If you want to see the big 3's then go to another dyno and do your run in 5th gear which is our 1-1 ratio.Garanteed you see at least 320TQ and upwards of 380 HP readings...I dont know why AA does 3rd gear pulls?!?!

 

did they do a dyno right before the fuel system upgrade? how about a compression check?

 

Congratulations Bonz!

That FJO install looks Shweeeeeeet there under the A/C controls! Looks like they did nice work on that. for sure.

I can't really offer anything of much help in the way of your HP although I will agree with what Happyending said about the dyno pulls in 3rd. You definitely want to do the pulls in 5th gear for the 1:1 ratio. I think Autos are in 4th for the same reason. The only thing that sux about that is that you can't really "go back" and re-dyno the "before" chart. I'd take it back to them and have them run it in 5th gear and I bet you see an increase in your HP.

-Chris

 

No, they didn't do a "before" but that would have been nice. No compression check done.

I didn't really think about that. I seemed to think they did it in 4th last year though. I can't remember. I'll have to e-mail AAM and ask them.

Unfortunately, they are 300 miles away from me so going back for a repeat dyno is out.

I am looking for a shop in the Pittsburgh area with a dyno for this purpose. I am about 70 miles north of there.

Anyone in the Pittsburgh area know of anyplace?

 

I just watched a video of last year's dyno pull and it does look like third gear.

 

Yes Doctor..

6MT's dyno in 5th
5AT's Dyno in 4th ( No Overdrive )

You will find the difference.. in a Larger TQ curve.. as the car is breathing... HP will be 5% greater.. Or Better..

Did not know Altered was so cautious.. 3rd gear runs are for testing a bad fuel ratio before taking the car to speed..

My 5AT was at 214Hp 228Tq on a dyno in 4th gear
Strickly Dyno was off by 10% giving a totally stock 4th gear run
to Be 230HP 238TQ adjusted in forth gear ( Stock Numbers )

The issue was S.D. had moved thier dyno to a new location and
had not opted for a recalibration..

At 135MPH 4th gear a 350Z can not make only 214 - It's Stock 230HP - A Dyno error...

Cheers Amy -

 

You know what? That may be the answer. They only take it up to 92 MPH on mine. If I would see only a 5% increase, we'd be talking about 367.5 HP and about 308 in torque. Ten percent would be even better.

Anyone else think this is the reason?

 

I know its the reason doc!!! When I did my car I pulled in 3rd 4th AND all my final pulls were in 5th..In 5th gear I pulled over 388 to the wheels even one 401 run but I backed off the tune to be safe.When I did 3rd and 4th gear runs I was signifigantly lower..AA does in fact do ALL their dyno pulls in 3rd for some odd reason I think Mike had said cause its less stress on the car,dyno and its quicker..Do you know if they use a true LOAD BASED dyno??Meaning it puts some load on the drums based on vehicle weight and specifics, simulating highway driving best..

 

Several reasons I can see.

1.Timing has been pulled....ask AAM what they have the timing set at with the reflash. This will make a large difference provided you weren't detonating before. The only way you are going to see HP gains from a timing decrease is if you were seeing perignition/detonation prior to the flash.

2. Your AF is a bit more conservative, that will cost you a few HP as well. I can't see the curve after 6kish but it looks like it's getting fatter. This combined with the timing decrease can help explain the car not pulling to redline like it should.

3. As stated before, #'s are low because of gear selection. However, this shouldn't matter as far as your before/after dynos. I don't see the purpose of adding mods , then dynoing to see your gains only to change the parameters and inflate your #'s

Also, what were the weather conditions for each run? I know people believe that SAE correction is the end all/be all, but for FI'd cars it just doesn't seem to correct as well.



--wes

 

Thanks for your input Happyending and Wes.

I have e-mailed AAM to ask about the dyno in 3rd. I agree that it is best to do this dyno in 3rd since last years was also done in 3rd, I just didn't realize this until now. I would still like to do one in 5th now to see what HP I am truly getting though.

I was not getting any detonation before since I was tuned pretty consevatively last year. AAM says their program pulled between 3 and 5 degrees on my timing.

As stated in a previous post. Weather 85 and humid on recent dyno, about 89 not humid last year on before dyno.

Don't know if they use a load based dyno.

 

Bonz
i am always at AAm and, i noticed your car was in the shop...very suprised with your in car PC which one is that??? just to let you know i beleive it is your Intercooler, i was taking a look at your car and noticed that the intercooler was fairly small...i would recommend upgrading the cooling system... also atmosphere temp has alot of affect on dyno #'s not much but i have been sitting on the dyno for a few days working with mike on fuel maps and such and i noticed the dyno i had a few days ago was at 238...which is now at 240+ who knows but look into it..

Ben

 

It's the one that comes with the ATI kit. I am looking into getting the larger three core one from them. I e-mailed them and no reply as of yet.

The computer is from Chazzz (on this site) His business is called image engineering I believe.

 

Some thoughts I have Ed...

1 - Did they do both pulls in the same gear. I don't care if they did them in 3rd, 4th, or 5th, as long as they were both in the same gear. That's the question you should be asking. If both pulls were 3rd gear pulls, then your question about what's going on with the HP is just as valid as if they were both in 5th.

2 - Remember, dynos are useful for measuring your relative gains, not comparing to what others have pulled on other dynos. I'm ecstatic that my car dynoed a top hp of 425, but the real number that's important to me is that I gained 160hp from my pre-Vortech numbers. What gains you got over your prior setup is what should be your focus here.

3 - From everything I've read about the Vortech pulley upgrade (since I have yet to do it) is that you don't see much peak gain, but you do see appreciable gains throughout the powerband. Probably the same for the ATI. So 10hp or so at peak may be all you get. What matters is the area under the curve. That said...

4 - It does appear you did not see much HP gain overall, but DAMN! that torque gain is phenomenal!!!! That is why you car "feels" faster. I'd be overjoyed if, when I do my pulley upgrade, I see a similar improvement.

5 - Plugs... I have noticed a little less punch from my car lately. We pinned it down to two things. After 7000 or so miles on the SC, it was time to replace the main belt. This helped a bit... you shouldn't have that issue though because of the cogged belts. The other thing we feel must be done (and have not yet because they are such a pain to get to) is the plugs need to be replaced. Remember, because of your hotter application, your plugs are going to wear sooner. We thought mine would be good for 10K miles, but it looks like less. If you have 6K+ miles on the ATI kit, I would definitely look to the plugs. Could be costing you some...

6 - Last, did anyone else notice that DrBonz's graphs don't cross at 5250? Is that because they pulled in a gear other than 5th? I thought, mathematically, the torque and hp lines should always cross at 5250.

 

Andy: They do cross at 5250. The torque and HP are on different scales. Mike (2003Z) pointed this out to me.

Yes, they did do last year's and this year's dynos in 3rd so I do have a good reference point.

I am going to replace my plugs since I now have about 8K on them since my ATI install.

I am also going to look into a larger intercooler eventually.

Overall I am very happy with the results. I think the A/F gauge looks really trick! I love how it looks. The car is most definitely faster. I guess I just assumed that getting this fuel upgrade AND ESPECIALLY 2 more psi of boost would get me over 400 WHP. I was wrong.

I still would love to get the car on another dyno and do a pull into 5th gear though. I need to see my ultimate numbers for "braggin' rights"!

I was very happy with AAM's work. The new fuel upgrades are awesome! Dave is new there at AAM and I want to publically thank him for all his help, keeping me posted, giving me his cell phone number for after hours calls, for staying long after closing time on Sat. when I picked up the car, and for driving me to the car rental place on both my trips down there. Thanks again, Dave!

 

I could not agree with you more! That A/F gauge looks shweeeeeeeet there! I just wish that there was an option like that with the Zeitronix nt-2, but looks like I'm stuck with their "fugly" gauge.

Congrats again on the upgrade!

-Chris

 

AAM's dyno is a 4WD DynoJet.

Mike always does their pulls in lower gears on the Z. You can argue with him.. but when they do pulls.. thats what they use.

Some people cry 'speed', but our cars aren't that crazy in 4th or 5th gear.

 

That is basically what they told me. It is a safety issue with them. They dyno in 3rd gear. Mine went to 92 MPH in 3rd.

I really would like to find a dyno somewhere around here to see what kind of numbers I can get.

Shariff, does the fact that it is a 4WD dyno have anything to do with the lower numbers? I didn't think so.