Chris S

I believe you're living in fantasy land...the orange peel is NOT a defect covered by warranty, just a symptom of poor quality control in painting. If this were the case, then GM, Ford, and Chrysler would have been bankrupted by lemon law buybacks.

z350z

I can't believe that Nissan has made such a generous offer, in effect doing everything they can, and you're still complaining. You accepted the car in this condition (which is a normal condition present on most cars), then decided later you weren't happy with it, and Nissan says they will buy it back for full price!? And you think it's a one-sided offer? Man, this is unbelievable; Nissan must be thinking that there's no way to make some people happy.

I don't think most of us would have even noticed the orange peel or given it a second thought if it wasn't for all the bitching about it on this board. Let's keep things in perspective!

STLZ

what is orange peel? Everybody has bi_ch about it what exactly is it?

Pooh2002

Just got my Brickyard last night. Haven't seen it in the sun nor gone over it with a magnifying glass. Have seen it at early dusk, under bright lights at the dealers garage and in my own garage under ambient light. If there is orange peel there, I can't see it. Car looks gorgeous. Color is fantastic. I really don't care if I find any orange peel now, it's mine.

C Ray Z

iTrader: (2)

Nice to see you finally got your car. Your going to love it.

WashUJon

I gotta say I agree!

Nissan has been MORE than generous. I doubt they are under any legal obligation to buy back the car and they still offered to do so. That is a sweet deal and they did it to keep you with Nissan. They want you to stay their customer and that is GREAT service.

Subw00er

I think you should chill out and just deal with it. Nissan is not being one sided, because it is costing them money too, all to keep your satisfaction. Remeber this is a 27K car, not an exotic. In the end, does the paint really matter?

KayserNissan

I would first like to say, that as a dealer, I appreciate all the people telling it like it is in this case.

Subject of repaint:

Dumb idea....the car will NEVER be worth as much as it is with the factory paint job. Other people will not care about the orange peel, but they WILL, and SHOULD care if it was re-painted. It is IMPOSSIBLE to duplicate the factory finish. For you guys out there with the " genius painter..." etc. you are wasting your breath on me. I am in the business, I appraise cars every day, I can spot a repaint or touch-up 100 % of the time.


Just enjoy your car and quit complaining. You can see that this is the majority of the board consensus.


And by the way, I saw it mentioned about future "restorations" duplicating the orange peel...it will happen.
I restore classic Mustangs, and you lose points for paint that is "too good", without the requisite "orange peel"


Now get out and drive your Z!!!!

articfury

Kayser,

I appreciate your input.

I do have some questions for you.

Have you seen Sam's vehicle? Do you know the actual level of orange peel on his particular car? I have not, and thus have reserved judgment on Sam for his claim to Nissan.

From your post, it sounds like you think that all orange peel is acceptable. Is this the case? Why must we be satisfied with orange peel at a greater rate than other models? I know that there are a lot of manufacturer models that have orange peel. At the same time there are quite a few out there that are in the same price point as the Z that don't have it to the extent that _some_ of us do.

Would you be ok with a car having orange peel that can be felt? If so, then I am very glad that I don't have to use you as my service provider.

On the subject of repaint, each owner has to determine what is more important to them. This is true with modifications as well. An irreversibly-modified vehicle can also be worth less than an unmodified version. But it all comes down to what makes the owner happiest during their ownership. If you worry the most about the resale, then don't repaint and live with it. If you worry the most about the look of the paint, then repaint it. In the end, like everything we discuss here about our cars, it's what makes the owner of the car the happiest.

The board’s consensus doesn't make it right for everyone. Does everyone have exactly the same degree of orange peel? If not, then a person with none (like ares, IIRC) can't really see the issue for someone like sammythebull. If someone can't enjoy their car because every time they see it, they see dramatic orange peel, then they have the right to "complain" and fight for a fair resolution.

On the note of resolutions, I feel Nissan has done a fairly good job with the current offers. The only thing I can see that would make it perfect would be to work with Sam to put him into a car at no extra cost out of his pocket, except for variances in model/options.

Sammy-

I hope you are happy with whatever resolution you chose. Until then, enjoy your car as best you can.

JD

KayserNissan

Artic,

The orange peel was on the car at delivery, the dealer, nor Nissan FORCED the acceptance of the car at time of delivery. If he didn't like it, it should have been brought up then. I am amazed that there are not MORE defects on new vehicles when you consider how they are made.
Orange peel is a "characteristic" not a defect.

If you read the warranty, Nissan is NOT responsible for loss due to non-operation, or fitness for a particular service...etc. Same as EVERY car made.

I give credit to NISSAN for going above and beyond a reasonable solution to create a happy customer. I see in this business to many people that cannot recognize a good deal, or good service and ask for more, more, more.

I give credit to the originator of this thread for setting up a poll that actually lists several options, INCLUDING one that asks if HE is being unreasonable....that is terrific.

Just as I have not seen his car, you have not experienced my service, so to pass judgement on me is hippocratic.

By the way, YES, my 1966 Shelby GT350H has orange peel too,
but it's funny, I like the car just fine, even with the grime, the bends, chips, scratches....etc.


The Z car is a great car, at a great price. Is it perfect?? No

I stand behind the paint remarks because I have VAST experience and I don't care how good, or how it makes you feel, painting a BRAND new car is not something that will be a pleasant experience.


If you don't like the finish, don't buy the car, because the reality is, there is another person right behind you that may not take issue with the paint.

articfury

Kayser,

The orange peel is obviously there on the car at delivery. However, lighting greatly affects the visibility of orange peel. Also, I don't know about you, but I know very few, if any, people that would actually rub there hands over and entire car, prior to delivery to check for orange peel texture.

I am pretty sure that I said Nissan was doing good by Sam. I did point out what would have made it a better offer.

My comment about your service was dependant on your response to the question about orange peel that can be felt. Do you feel it is hypocritical to reserve judgment based on the response to a question?

I would expect that somewhere in 36 years the paint technology would be developed such as to avoid orange peel. But like everything, if people don't complain about something, then companies won't find ways to reduce those complaints.

The same is true for the softness of the paint on the Z. If people just accept this as, "Oh, that's just the way it is. Deal with it." Then we get sub par paint quality, and the manufacturers don't research ways to increase durability. (Side note: Ironically, Nissan claims that the orange peel is due to a process to provide a harder paint. I would hate to see the soft version. )

How is painting a brand new car different from painting a 1 year old or 5 year old (assuming the same paint technology was used to originally paint the cars)?

"If you don't like the finish, don't buy the car, because the reality is, there is another person right behind you that may not take issue with the paint."

This comment really shows how much you understand of what the majority of the preorder customers went through. By the time most of us went to the dealership to pick up our cars we had invested a lot of time and energy. This shouldn't matter when you buy a car, but we are human so it can. I don’t think Nissan feels this way either. This is probably part of why they are trying to help as they are. I hope that the lack of compassion in your statements on this issue is only my misinterpretation of your statements.

JD

sammythebull

*** UPDATE ***

First, thanks to all of the members who have voted and/or taken the time to reply... I really do appreciate it and there are many good points.

With regards to me, "accepting delivery"

My delivery (forget the preorder) began at 12 noon and lasted until almost 5:30pm. I sat at the dealer, in the main show room, as the General Manager conducted a meeting for almost 2 hours. The reason I was given was that because I was the first 350Z to be delivered at this dealership the "big guy" wanted to handle my delivery.

Well after 2 hours of waiting he came and introduced himself to me (for the first time) and then said, "This is Jeramia (?) he'll be taking care of you." This was my first time meeting Jeramia. With all due respect to Jeramia, he did the best he could do--but I don't feel like after waiting for 2 hours for the manager than I should just be pushed to another person.

By the time I took delivery the sun was already setting. Many will know that the Orange Peel on a vehicle is best seen in the sunlight. The bright lights for the dealer's parking lot... since they come from directly overhead--did not accuratly show the reflection.

Given the circumstances, I inspected the vehicle to the best of my abilities--not to mention that I was soo pissed that the delivery took over half a day.

My initial call was to Nissan less than 48 hours after purchase.

When I called the dealer I was told that if I had not taken delivery I would have lost my deposit--per my contract--and would have to reorder another 350Z.

Now for all of us who've been loyal to this site and have preordered from Day 1, hearing, "You would have to redo an order" is a NIGHTMARE!

Anyway, that behind us...

I've asked Nissan for the following compromise...

Since it seems like they cannot find a Black 350Z Touring with my options that is not already sold (or cancelled) then I would have to wait more than likely until early 2003 for a replacement--which I would have to repurchase (i.e. new tax, title, registration, etc.), I have proposed...

1. I will keep vehicle as-is
2. I will trade vehicle in when 2004 Model and/or convertible comes out (June 2003 by the latest)
3. Assuming that the dealer that I trade the vehicle into does not ding me (or give me less trade in value) due to the paint condition (specifically Orange Peel) than I would drop any complaint to NNA.
4. In the event that the dealer gives me less trade in due to the Orange Peel condition--then NNA covers the difference (based on what a non-Orange Peel, similar 350Z would trade in for).

I think this is a win-win, since there is a good chance that Nissan would not have to pay anything out of pocket and I, the customer, would be happy.

I think this is a fair compromise.

As it stands now, the Executive Consumer Affairs Manager that I am dealing with is reviewing this with NNA Legal.

The way I see it, is if NNA does not offer this and I trade vehicle in 2003 and get dinged for Orange Peel, then I have Legal Precidence (?) since NNA already ammited that there was a flaw in the paint and was willing to settle.

Other than that... I LOVE MY 350Z.

KayserNissan

I, as a dealer and used car appraiser can tell you with 100% certainty that your car will not be worth less with the original factory paint...orange peel and all. If you chose to paint the car, it ABSOLUTELY will be worth less, regardless of how the paint looks. The solution you suggest sounds reasonable.

Here is another angle for you:
Since the Z car is so hot right now, when you find a car you may want to take delivery of try this scenario. Secure the new car, and ask the dealership to run your current car through a local auto auction. You may be suprised that some independent used car dealer bids the car to what you paid...or??? The dealer can use this number as a trade-in figure so you can get the tax benefit of a trade-in.

Your trade-in will be worth top-dollar, since the number of used 350Z's will be miniscule by spring or summer. In the mean time...ENJOY DRIVING YOUR CAR!!!

rjsmit1

Kayser,
What is your recommendation on having an orange peel paint job wet sanded?

grebmohr

If Orange peel is normal then why does it appear in the defects pages of every painting book? It is the sign a poorly prepped body shot in an abnormal temp/humidity environment. True, most new cars have it. This fact does not make it acceptable but there is a ton of weighing to be done on the issue.

If you truely cannot look at it, I would suggest that you let Nissan buy it back as the repaint is out of the question(unless they remove all plastic, trim, weather stripping and protect undercarriage from overspray and then it is still a risk for worse problems and resale value).

As far as "you shouldna bought if the paint sucked" that is a load of crap. We get caught up in the excitment of the buy. When I bought my MINI 5 months ago, I saw that the detailer swirled my paint along both upper belt lines. I bought it any way and I dread sun shiney days now.

Tough call-- Maybe tell Nissan you will only do a trade once your new car arrives..??..?

Good Luck

dc350z

You sound like a major pain in the A$$.

Nissan gives you a finger, but you want to take the whole hand. From the beginning to the end, you're still talking like you are in FantasyLand.

I love how you interpret guilt on the part of Nissan. If I had a quarter for everytime I heard that.....
Classic...typical CR $hit
Personally, if I were a DM for that dealer, I would have given you 30 days to make up your mind. If you didn't like the offer, you have 30 days to think about it. After that, the offer is gone!

BTW, orange peel IS NOT A DEFECT! But there can be a variance, and sometimes it is more noticeable.
And, very important, the color of the car makes a difference in how much you see. Some colors "hide it" better than others.



Chrome Silver Track
S03's
Earthing Kit
K&N
White Side Finisher

ztom

I noticed you have a Chrome Silver 350z. Have you actually checked out the orange peel on a BLACK 350z?

I have a Super Black one, and if the orange peel was any worse it would look like "runnies".

dc350z

...you missed my last sentence.

Silver hides orange peel, as well as fine scratches and dirt.
Experince in paint refinishing/bodywork in another life taught me to stay away from dark colors, especially black. Scratches show all to easily, and all it takes is one wrong carwash and you've got a nightmare.