For you guys that are interested in pushbutton start.
10-22-2007, 09:33 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For you guys that are interested in pushbutton start.
Hey I think I figured out how to make the car FULL push button start/stop with out needing the key in the ignition and still keeping all your factory NVIS. Infact, this may totaly negate the need for your ignition switch all together. It would be as simple as putting your key in the ashtray and pushing the button.
Gotta clear up a few things with the switch seeing if we need a seperate acc on switch or not. Also, going over the NATS antena for the chip in the key.
Any one interested? It will cost you just the price of a start/stop switch and some time (So about $70). Let me know I can help yeah out.
As always Im still researching to see if there are any drawbacks or problems. So this adds YET ANOTHER mod on my list after the 101 switch. None of that ghey *** "I have to put the key in the ignition, turn it on then push the button." Hell it may even be possible, depending on how strong the antena is; that you can put the key itself in your right pocket and just push the button.
Gotta clear up a few things with the switch seeing if we need a seperate acc on switch or not. Also, going over the NATS antena for the chip in the key.
Any one interested? It will cost you just the price of a start/stop switch and some time (So about $70). Let me know I can help yeah out.
As always Im still researching to see if there are any drawbacks or problems. So this adds YET ANOTHER mod on my list after the 101 switch. None of that ghey *** "I have to put the key in the ignition, turn it on then push the button." Hell it may even be possible, depending on how strong the antena is; that you can put the key itself in your right pocket and just push the button.
Last edited by punish_her; 10-22-2007 at 10:05 PM.
10-22-2007, 09:41 PM
#2
Originally Posted by punish_her
Hey I think I figured out how to make the car FULL push button start/stop with out needing the key in the ignition and still keeping all your factory NVIS. Infact, this may totaly negate the need for your ignition switch all together. It would be as simple as putting your key in the ashtray and pushing the button.
Gotta clear up a few things with the switch seeing if we need a seperate acc on switch or not. Also, going over the NATS antena for the chip in the key.
Any one interested? It will cost you just the price of a start/stop switch and some time (So about $70). Let me know I can help yeah out.
As always Im still researching to see if there are any drawbacks or problems. So this adds YET ANOTHER mod on my list after the 101 switch. None of that ghey *** I have to put the key in the ignition, turn it on then push the button. Hell it may even be possible, depending on how strong the antena is; that you can put the key itself in your right pocket and just push the button.
Gotta clear up a few things with the switch seeing if we need a seperate acc on switch or not. Also, going over the NATS antena for the chip in the key.
Any one interested? It will cost you just the price of a start/stop switch and some time (So about $70). Let me know I can help yeah out.
As always Im still researching to see if there are any drawbacks or problems. So this adds YET ANOTHER mod on my list after the 101 switch. None of that ghey *** I have to put the key in the ignition, turn it on then push the button. Hell it may even be possible, depending on how strong the antena is; that you can put the key itself in your right pocket and just push the button.
10-22-2007, 10:04 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On paper it works havnt found a direct conection between the ignition switch and the NATS antena. I dont have time right now to try it since Im not the country.
I'm gonna try it out when I get back in November. It's fairly straight forward. You wire the S2000 start stop button where you want it. Then relocate the NATS antena, keeping all the wires intact. Stripping it out of the bundle, then sealing the bundle back up. At this point you can relocate the NATS antena to where you like it best.
At this point you can totaly remove the ignition swithch and plug the hole. All you have to do at this pointis toss your key in the ashtray and push the start button. If you want you can even leave the key there if you feal comfortabel enough.
I'll keep people posted with my researching the strength of the NATS antena wiring and range.
I'm gonna try it out when I get back in November. It's fairly straight forward. You wire the S2000 start stop button where you want it. Then relocate the NATS antena, keeping all the wires intact. Stripping it out of the bundle, then sealing the bundle back up. At this point you can relocate the NATS antena to where you like it best.
At this point you can totaly remove the ignition swithch and plug the hole. All you have to do at this pointis toss your key in the ashtray and push the start button. If you want you can even leave the key there if you feal comfortabel enough.
I'll keep people posted with my researching the strength of the NATS antena wiring and range.
10-23-2007, 12:36 AM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is one or two things Im looking into that may pose a set back. First disabeling the steering wheel lock and any problems that may be associated with that. Second, checking to see if there is any warning signal that is passed if the ignition switch is not found.
Question 2 doesnt seem to be a problem because in this post: https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...5&postcount=47 the guy wired up a switch that bipasses the ignition switch all together. Wich meens there isnt a signal that throws a code. If there was, when he throws the switch to isolate the ignition out side of the loop; it would throw a code. It doesnt, so it looks like its isolated and doesnt throw a code. Meaning you can remove the switch. So theoreticly as long as the chip is in range og the antena, then your good.
The first question is simple mechanics. Just figuring out how to take out the locking mechinism, and we are set.
I dont know about the Altima Start/Stop every thing I got parts wise and insperation was in: https://my350z.com/forum/audio-video-and-electronics-diy/220742-s2k-engine-start-button-install-write-up.html. Hell Im the last one to post there and you can kind of see the thought process through all the edits. I'll do some checking into the altima botton to see what it uses to connect. If people have wired it for use on the Z already then I dont see the diffrence in using the S2000 or the Altima.
For the install times, Kamu I dont know. I havent done it yet. From what I see the process will go something like:
Remove steering wheel cover upper and lower
Remove gauge cluster
Remove lower dash under steering wheel
find mounting location for push button
install and wire push button
uninstall NATS antena
seperate NATS antena and wiring from main bundle
Tape both seperate bundles to protect wires
install NATS antena where desired and can place a key securely
Replace all molding.
place key in holder
push to start
push to stop
The beauty about the NATS Antena is its active for 5 seconds according to the service manual. So it doesnt have to be next to antena the whole time. Sothat widens the possibilities for the mounting location. so the center console is fine, you dont have to worry about it moving arround and shutting off the car. Hell look at turbo timers on the Z. You pull out the key and it still runs with out setting off the anti theft.
My question is if the start stop switch is wired with the ACC input, can you turn on just the accessery by negating the start process. (ie. not pushing in the clutch, leaving it in drive for Automatics). To clear codes in the Z the ACC switch is used ALOT. So thats an important one to keep.
Question 2 doesnt seem to be a problem because in this post: https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...5&postcount=47 the guy wired up a switch that bipasses the ignition switch all together. Wich meens there isnt a signal that throws a code. If there was, when he throws the switch to isolate the ignition out side of the loop; it would throw a code. It doesnt, so it looks like its isolated and doesnt throw a code. Meaning you can remove the switch. So theoreticly as long as the chip is in range og the antena, then your good.
The first question is simple mechanics. Just figuring out how to take out the locking mechinism, and we are set.
I dont know about the Altima Start/Stop every thing I got parts wise and insperation was in: https://my350z.com/forum/audio-video-and-electronics-diy/220742-s2k-engine-start-button-install-write-up.html. Hell Im the last one to post there and you can kind of see the thought process through all the edits. I'll do some checking into the altima botton to see what it uses to connect. If people have wired it for use on the Z already then I dont see the diffrence in using the S2000 or the Altima.
For the install times, Kamu I dont know. I havent done it yet. From what I see the process will go something like:
Remove steering wheel cover upper and lower
Remove gauge cluster
Remove lower dash under steering wheel
find mounting location for push button
install and wire push button
uninstall NATS antena
seperate NATS antena and wiring from main bundle
Tape both seperate bundles to protect wires
install NATS antena where desired and can place a key securely
Replace all molding.
place key in holder
push to start
push to stop
The beauty about the NATS Antena is its active for 5 seconds according to the service manual. So it doesnt have to be next to antena the whole time. Sothat widens the possibilities for the mounting location. so the center console is fine, you dont have to worry about it moving arround and shutting off the car. Hell look at turbo timers on the Z. You pull out the key and it still runs with out setting off the anti theft.
My question is if the start stop switch is wired with the ACC input, can you turn on just the accessery by negating the start process. (ie. not pushing in the clutch, leaving it in drive for Automatics). To clear codes in the Z the ACC switch is used ALOT. So thats an important one to keep.
Last edited by punish_her; 10-23-2007 at 12:42 AM.
10-23-2007, 12:48 AM
#7
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
O sounds like fun. As for clearing the codes are you talking about the Check Engine Light. I just use the scanner or just disconnect the battery. I would be able to live with that. Let me know if you need help. I have just about all the tools you would need to do anything. Or i would like to watch so if you do **** up i can learn from your mistake.
jp 
jp
Trending Topics
10-23-2007, 01:45 AM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was a concern posted in about a start/ stop keyless system in a diffent thread.
This is not so much the case with the Z. Yes it does have as part of the NVIS an antena for the chip, but none of the doors, trunk, or hood has any of it that detects the chip key. They all work on sensors that output voltages, not recieve a chip signal. The only thing that imobalizes the vehicle when useing the key is the chip. Not other antena's throught the car. So if you put the NATS antena in a convienient location thats close to the key then your golden.
If any one has the service manual, the section with all the NVIS and NATS info is the BL (Body, Lock, and Security Section). Pages 120 -138.
Originally Posted by KPierson
The keyless pushbutton start systems are extremely complicated, not something you can just add to an existing car. They work by placing recievers all over the car (both doors, center console, and near the trunk). The recievers then detect the presence of a small transmitter that is in the key. Based on what sensors pick up on the signal the system can locate the key, and if it is near the drivers seat then it will allow the pushbutton to work. I'm guessing that the recievers send an 'OK' signal to the ECU through the CAN bus.
You would have to problably swap out all the electronics in the car with an Altimas electronics (or a G35 that has push button, as at least the electronics will be similar).
Great work on the integration. If you need any help customizing the system (simplifing, automating, etc) let me know, I could pop out a custom circuit board that would integrate much easier and eliminate the need for the relay board. You could also eliminate rewiring the LEDs on the switch, and get the ACC LED working right by running everything through a microcontroller.
You would have to problably swap out all the electronics in the car with an Altimas electronics (or a G35 that has push button, as at least the electronics will be similar).
Great work on the integration. If you need any help customizing the system (simplifing, automating, etc) let me know, I could pop out a custom circuit board that would integrate much easier and eliminate the need for the relay board. You could also eliminate rewiring the LEDs on the switch, and get the ACC LED working right by running everything through a microcontroller.
If any one has the service manual, the section with all the NVIS and NATS info is the BL (Body, Lock, and Security Section). Pages 120 -138.
10-23-2007, 02:21 AM
#12
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to get remote start through an aftermarket alarm? I don't have it yet but once the car is on i would assume you don't need to insert a key to drive? just a thought but if you can get it working for $70 punish her, count me in
10-23-2007, 02:32 AM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If some one gives me the wiring schematics for a 350Z and the schematics for the Altima Coupe push button diagram I would be willing to solve your wiring problem.
I work all day on helicopters dealing with wiring and avionics, its enjoyable for me and it will give me something to do while I am in Iraq.
I work all day on helicopters dealing with wiring and avionics, its enjoyable for me and it will give me something to do while I am in Iraq.
10-23-2007, 02:32 AM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by blazed54
wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to get remote start through an aftermarket alarm? I don't have it yet but once the car is on i would assume you don't need to insert a key to drive? just a thought but if you can get it working for $70 punish her, count me in
Um not realy, you still need the key; remote starts are like a reverse turbo timmer. They are used to start the car, in most cases to warm it up. But you cant do it for manuals. The $70 was for the price of the switch, there are ones out there that only turn on, otheres that turn on and off. Obviously the cheaper ones are only on.
On a side note, can any one tell me the verbage nissan uses for the steering whell locking mechinism. I cant seem to find the refrence and I know it has some thing to do with the ignition swithch itself going into a position the puts a pin or other obstruction in a notch in the steering colum to prevent turning. ANY HELP???
10-23-2007, 02:40 AM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by HR_Z-Ballz
If some one gives me the wiring schematics for a 350Z and the schematics for the Altima Coupe push button diagram I would be willing to solve your wiring problem.
I work all day on helicopters dealing with wiring and avionics, its enjoyable for me and it will give me something to do while I am in Iraq.
I work all day on helicopters dealing with wiring and avionics, its enjoyable for me and it will give me something to do while I am in Iraq.
This is some thing thats been arround for a year or so. People on here have it wired up already, there are directions out there for it; thats one of the big reasons why I havnt looked in to it. The information is easier to obtain. Its refrenced in several pushbutton threads.
My big thing is trying to find the little problems no one openly addresses in the pushbutton start/stop, or addressed but never solved. Im trying to marry the concept and practice into an easy solution thats redily available to all cheaply.
10-23-2007, 07:20 AM
#17
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Been tooling arround and looking at specific projects people have tried on this. The Altima and S2K switch both are good but they have one thing thats a set back when using them. They both turn the car on but need a set of relays to turn it off. Shouldnt be that hard to set up.
KPierson does have a pretty damn interesting module. Stage 2 is expensive but its on/off and has ALOT of additional features for safety. It's the one switch with the least hastel and has been tested and in final stages of production.
This would be my choice fo switches. So the main key is to run a test first to see if its even feasable. What needs to be done is open up the steering column, remove the NATS Antena and relocate it away from the ignition swith far enough to make sure you dont get the signal from the chip key in the ignition. Put one spare key on the NATS Antena and start the car with the other key. If that works then you have the answer if its feasable or not.
If that works, then its as simpile as installing the switch and relocating the NATS antena. The next step is disabeling the steering wheel lock. Once thats accomplished you have a full keyless system. The service manual has absolutely no info on the steering wheel lock. Just the assembly its apart of. So if we got a guinney pig... pop her open and take a look to see if it can be isolated or removed totaly.
KPierson does have a pretty damn interesting module. Stage 2 is expensive but its on/off and has ALOT of additional features for safety. It's the one switch with the least hastel and has been tested and in final stages of production.
This would be my choice fo switches. So the main key is to run a test first to see if its even feasable. What needs to be done is open up the steering column, remove the NATS Antena and relocate it away from the ignition swith far enough to make sure you dont get the signal from the chip key in the ignition. Put one spare key on the NATS Antena and start the car with the other key. If that works then you have the answer if its feasable or not.
If that works, then its as simpile as installing the switch and relocating the NATS antena. The next step is disabeling the steering wheel lock. Once thats accomplished you have a full keyless system. The service manual has absolutely no info on the steering wheel lock. Just the assembly its apart of. So if we got a guinney pig... pop her open and take a look to see if it can be isolated or removed totaly.
10-23-2007, 10:21 AM
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bellevue, Ne
Posts: 2,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im going to refrence this guys thread for wiring the S2K switch because he has some real good photos of the starter wiring harnes. https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...52&postcount=1
So for the wiring on the starter conector, the set up goes as followed (according to PG10, 11, 14, & 15 in the service manual)
Pin 1 White/Lavander Power into the ignition switch from the battery
Pin 2 White/Blue Power out when in the ACC/ON position
Pin 3 Black/ Red Power out when in the ING position
Pin 4 White/ Red Power out in the START position (momentary)
Pin 5 White/ Green Provides power to the day time running lamps. (If aplicapable)
These are the only wires (1-4) that feed the ignition switch. Once they are used in the start stop switch, there is no code thrown for vehicle theft. So there definately should be no problem getting rid of the ignition switch if it came to that step and using the NATS antena seperately.
So for the wiring on the starter conector, the set up goes as followed (according to PG10, 11, 14, & 15 in the service manual)
Pin 1 White/Lavander Power into the ignition switch from the battery
Pin 2 White/Blue Power out when in the ACC/ON position
Pin 3 Black/ Red Power out when in the ING position
Pin 4 White/ Red Power out in the START position (momentary)
Pin 5 White/ Green Provides power to the day time running lamps. (If aplicapable)
These are the only wires (1-4) that feed the ignition switch. Once they are used in the start stop switch, there is no code thrown for vehicle theft. So there definately should be no problem getting rid of the ignition switch if it came to that step and using the NATS antena seperately.
Last edited by punish_her; 10-23-2007 at 10:29 AM.
If punish her gets either button to work I am definitely interested