tuned my z on utec with a ses code....questions, please help!! :)
tuned my z on utec with a ses code....questions, please help!! :)
so ever since my header install my car has thrown a ses light. i got it checked and it said large evap housing leak (forgot the code number, sorry guys). I am new to this and figured i should call my nissan tech who installed it and he said it was cool, which i thought funny. i took my car to my tuner, told him why it was throwing a ses, and he ignored me, said it was from my test pipes (which was wrong, since i have non foulers) and it was okay to tune. the baseline gains and overall were disappointing, i asked him if there was anything wrong with the car, he said no. asked if anything could be related to an ses light he said no. i got only my baseline and final dyno chart, no air fuel what so ever. i gained only 7whp, 6tq (sorry no scanner so i cant upload chart) I finally figured out where the problem was with my ses on my car with my nissan tech, and the nissan computer that plugs into the sensor read the car running pig rich. mods on a 03 are utec, motordyne 5/16, intense power test pipes, evo2 exhaust, stillen SS headers.
my questions are:
1. would a ses code cause the ecu to want to run rich?
2. why the hell wouldnt the tuner give me my a/f?
3. is 260-280 whp to much to ask on these mods?
3. since i fixed the ses should i put my utec back to zero and get a retune (i pretty much figure that my old tune is void now)?
my questions are:
1. would a ses code cause the ecu to want to run rich?
2. why the hell wouldnt the tuner give me my a/f?
3. is 260-280 whp to much to ask on these mods?
3. since i fixed the ses should i put my utec back to zero and get a retune (i pretty much figure that my old tune is void now)?
Some SES codes will cause cars to run rich in turn giving you fairly crappy gas mileage as well.
Some times if you don't request it the tuner may not give you the a/f, or sometimes even the torque readings for your car, if he refused while you were there maybe it isn't working on their dyno or something, that area is fuzzy to me.
The HP range your looking at isn't outlandish but I would be looking toward the 260 range more then the 280.
I would probably say you should get the car tuned again if it was tuned while operating badly.
Does your Nissan tech friend have access to manufacturer manuals? I know Mercedes as well as other manufacturers have diagnostic flow charts a la STAR tech info etc.
I never had a problem with throwing lights after my header install but I have had it a few times with my test pipes, sometimes the non foulers will back out and throw a code, re tighten and clear the code and you are fine.
I can assume it would be installer error or just happened that something happened to go bad at the same time. It's hard to diagnose a problem without actually seeing the car or what's going on via scanner.
My 2 cents, find a mod friendly dealer and see what they say, it's as non-partial as you can get.
Some times if you don't request it the tuner may not give you the a/f, or sometimes even the torque readings for your car, if he refused while you were there maybe it isn't working on their dyno or something, that area is fuzzy to me.
The HP range your looking at isn't outlandish but I would be looking toward the 260 range more then the 280.
I would probably say you should get the car tuned again if it was tuned while operating badly.
Does your Nissan tech friend have access to manufacturer manuals? I know Mercedes as well as other manufacturers have diagnostic flow charts a la STAR tech info etc.
I never had a problem with throwing lights after my header install but I have had it a few times with my test pipes, sometimes the non foulers will back out and throw a code, re tighten and clear the code and you are fine.
I can assume it would be installer error or just happened that something happened to go bad at the same time. It's hard to diagnose a problem without actually seeing the car or what's going on via scanner.
My 2 cents, find a mod friendly dealer and see what they say, it's as non-partial as you can get.
thanks joey...i think i can pull afr up on my z via the utec, my bf wont let me do it tonight bc its 12:35am here in ga and he thinks im obsessing
ill give the shop a call tommorow and see whats up with the afr when he tuned it. ill keep you posted....you just need to move ur butt to ga so sara will be less mopey and you can be my z tech
ill give the shop a call tommorow and see whats up with the afr when he tuned it. ill keep you posted....you just need to move ur butt to ga so sara will be less mopey and you can be my z tech
You won't be able to pull afr with the utec alone -You'll also need the txs tuner module to do that. Although you can pull maf voltage with the utec and extrapolate the values from there...
What kind of dyno did you tune on?
DD will show lower whp than DJ.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'pig rich', but you should try to keep your afr's between 12.8 ~ 13.2 from 3500ish onward.
Every engine/ tune is different though...
Timing: I try to extract the max power possible (as linearly as possible) without going into knock. But just because it isn't knocking in the logs, you also gotta watch that timing isn't advanced so much that you raise EGTs (exhaust gas temps) out of spec. Burnt exhaust valves = yucky. So I advance timing right to the point of starting to get knock, then I back it off a degree or two in each load site.
Fuel: Leaner is usually better... But again - There is a point of deminishing returns. At some point going leaner does not produce more power even if it isn't knocking. It just raises EGTs (which is bad). I run my tune as lean as I can up to the max whp, but not any leaner past that point. So the extra fuel actually has a cooling affect in the cylinder(s).
I rent dyno time and do my own tuning... Dyno tuning should always be followed up with a good road tune as well. It's tedious, but very rewarding when you get a tight tune nailed. :-)
What kind of dyno did you tune on?
DD will show lower whp than DJ.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'pig rich', but you should try to keep your afr's between 12.8 ~ 13.2 from 3500ish onward.
Every engine/ tune is different though...
Timing: I try to extract the max power possible (as linearly as possible) without going into knock. But just because it isn't knocking in the logs, you also gotta watch that timing isn't advanced so much that you raise EGTs (exhaust gas temps) out of spec. Burnt exhaust valves = yucky. So I advance timing right to the point of starting to get knock, then I back it off a degree or two in each load site.
Fuel: Leaner is usually better... But again - There is a point of deminishing returns. At some point going leaner does not produce more power even if it isn't knocking. It just raises EGTs (which is bad). I run my tune as lean as I can up to the max whp, but not any leaner past that point. So the extra fuel actually has a cooling affect in the cylinder(s).
I rent dyno time and do my own tuning... Dyno tuning should always be followed up with a good road tune as well. It's tedious, but very rewarding when you get a tight tune nailed. :-)
Last edited by gothchick; Oct 3, 2007 at 01:31 PM.
Originally Posted by gothchick
You won't be able to pull afr with the utec alone -You'll also need the txs tuner module to do that. Although you can pull maf voltage with the utec and extrapolate the values from there...
What kind of dyno did you tune on?
DD will show lower whp than DJ.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'pig rich', but you should try to keep your afr's between 12.8 ~ 13.2 from 3500ish onward.
Every engine/ tune is different though...
Timing: I try to extract the max power possible (as linearly as possible) without going into knock. But just because it isn't knocking in the logs, you also gotta watch that timing isn't advanced so much that you raise EGTs (exhaust gas temps) out of spec. Burnt exhaust valves = yucky. So I advance timing right to the point of starting to get knock, then I back it off a degree or two in each load site.
Fuel: Leaner is usually better... But again - There is a point of deminishing returns. At some point going leaner does not produce more power even if it isn't knocking. It just raises EGTs (which is bad). I run my tune as lean as I can up to the max whp, but not any leaner past that point. So the extra fuel actually has a cooling affect in the cylinder(s).
I rent dyno time and do my own tuning... Dyno tuning should always be followed up with a good road tune as well. It's tedious, but very rewarding when you get a tight tune nailed. :-)
What kind of dyno did you tune on?
DD will show lower whp than DJ.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'pig rich', but you should try to keep your afr's between 12.8 ~ 13.2 from 3500ish onward.
Every engine/ tune is different though...
Timing: I try to extract the max power possible (as linearly as possible) without going into knock. But just because it isn't knocking in the logs, you also gotta watch that timing isn't advanced so much that you raise EGTs (exhaust gas temps) out of spec. Burnt exhaust valves = yucky. So I advance timing right to the point of starting to get knock, then I back it off a degree or two in each load site.
Fuel: Leaner is usually better... But again - There is a point of deminishing returns. At some point going leaner does not produce more power even if it isn't knocking. It just raises EGTs (which is bad). I run my tune as lean as I can up to the max whp, but not any leaner past that point. So the extra fuel actually has a cooling affect in the cylinder(s).
I rent dyno time and do my own tuning... Dyno tuning should always be followed up with a good road tune as well. It's tedious, but very rewarding when you get a tight tune nailed. :-)
the tune was done by topspeed (use DJ, which he says "runs low"
, sounds like BS i know), since your in atl, they tuned/built clarks supra and numerous other monsters...but they have been reluctant to give me my AFR, and never gave it to me/let me see it when i was there...i am disappointed with what knowledge they offered, and im DEF never going to any z shop in atl (too many horror stories), i usually do my own stuff on the z or help out but i am new to this tuning stuff and topspeed had no answers for me, and neither did my nissan tech...i figured he would have done some fuel stuff but ehh. im just frustrated with it all and it taking all of my love for my car not to by another LS2, grr /vent
Hmmm... Actually, DJ runs high... About 10%-11% higher than DD. Mustang runs even higher than that. I tune on a DJ.
But yeah, I can relate. I had some work done by a well known shop here in town. They were in a rush, didn't think I would check their work or that I would know the difference, and they litterally short-cutted & did a hack-job on just about everything they installed (I had about $7k worth of work done by this shop) - And the tune they did was also rushed and half-@ssed... I mean, how can you properly tune a car from scratch in 4 or 5 pulls??? And with no followup road tune at all??? They were basically 'guessing' at a ballpark tune to get my car off the dyno. Total bs when their 'tune' cost $375.
So I cleaned up their sloppy installs when they wouldn't take responsibility, and learned how to tune myself (which isn't rocket science) & rent dyno time at a different shop (safely increasing my whp significantly over the 'pro' tune).
Now I'm a firm believer in doing everything I can myself. Which we should do anyway, because the piece of mind in knowing your car is done *right* is priceless. And if anything *does* go wrong, you'll be able to properly diagnose the issue without having to rely on someone else that may take you for a ride if you don't know any different.
It's a labour of love for me so I really don't mind getting dirty and breaking a nail or two~ Plus all the specialized tools I've had to buy will always be an investment. :-)
But yeah, I can relate. I had some work done by a well known shop here in town. They were in a rush, didn't think I would check their work or that I would know the difference, and they litterally short-cutted & did a hack-job on just about everything they installed (I had about $7k worth of work done by this shop) - And the tune they did was also rushed and half-@ssed... I mean, how can you properly tune a car from scratch in 4 or 5 pulls??? And with no followup road tune at all??? They were basically 'guessing' at a ballpark tune to get my car off the dyno. Total bs when their 'tune' cost $375.
So I cleaned up their sloppy installs when they wouldn't take responsibility, and learned how to tune myself (which isn't rocket science) & rent dyno time at a different shop (safely increasing my whp significantly over the 'pro' tune).
Now I'm a firm believer in doing everything I can myself. Which we should do anyway, because the piece of mind in knowing your car is done *right* is priceless. And if anything *does* go wrong, you'll be able to properly diagnose the issue without having to rely on someone else that may take you for a ride if you don't know any different.
It's a labour of love for me so I really don't mind getting dirty and breaking a nail or two~ Plus all the specialized tools I've had to buy will always be an investment. :-)
Last edited by gothchick; Oct 4, 2007 at 05:22 PM.
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