Osiris 'Knock Strength' massively negative at WOT?
03-01-2011, 01:33 PM
#21
Jared and/or Vince,
I have an 06 G35 Sedan CM34A. I am considering a tuner/PMAS purchase. Will this ever have knock/detonation control similar to UTEC?
Features such as...
Adjutable knock sensor sensativity?
Adjustable knock count threshold byr rpm or load?
Adjustable ignition retard by dergees?
Adjustable maximum ignition retard?
Adjustable ignition retard duration?
For all of its real world tuning issues the one thing that UTEC does a very good job of is protecting from knock and detonation on boosted applications. I realy would need somthing near this from the Osiris set up before I purchase.
I have an 06 G35 Sedan CM34A. I am considering a tuner/PMAS purchase. Will this ever have knock/detonation control similar to UTEC?
Features such as...
Adjutable knock sensor sensativity?
Adjustable knock count threshold byr rpm or load?
Adjustable ignition retard by dergees?
Adjustable maximum ignition retard?
Adjustable ignition retard duration?
For all of its real world tuning issues the one thing that UTEC does a very good job of is protecting from knock and detonation on boosted applications. I realy would need somthing near this from the Osiris set up before I purchase.
03-01-2011, 03:24 PM
#22
^^^ UPREV just stared cracking the code for knock sensor capabilities in the past few weeks. Some of the things you mentioned are not directly tunable or programmable. They have the ability to turn knock control on and off based on a RPM/Load index. The sensitivity is not adjustable, however the amount of timing being pulled is adjustable under the high det table. I'm sure Jared can add a lot more technical explanation but hopefully this will give you a good idea.
On a side note, personally I think the knock control topic is a little overrated. On the big power cars you can't even really use it do to the fact of all the noise being made by the motor/wastegates/Superchargers/Etc. Depending on the system I might use it and will always monitor it, but there are several systems that show knock when I know its just picking up extra noise. All these knock control systems were developed for factory cars and once we start doing these power adders a lot of that goes out the window. Being able to watch knock and then adjust threshold is nice, but technically u really cant set your threshold till the car is tuned and u have pulled and evaluated the plugs.
With all of that said if the knock control system is set up properly and does its job I will always use it as a precaution, but personally it doesn't make or break my decision on purchasing an engine management system.
On a side note, personally I think the knock control topic is a little overrated. On the big power cars you can't even really use it do to the fact of all the noise being made by the motor/wastegates/Superchargers/Etc. Depending on the system I might use it and will always monitor it, but there are several systems that show knock when I know its just picking up extra noise. All these knock control systems were developed for factory cars and once we start doing these power adders a lot of that goes out the window. Being able to watch knock and then adjust threshold is nice, but technically u really cant set your threshold till the car is tuned and u have pulled and evaluated the plugs.
With all of that said if the knock control system is set up properly and does its job I will always use it as a precaution, but personally it doesn't make or break my decision on purchasing an engine management system.
03-01-2011, 03:36 PM
#23
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Our developer John says that he knows of a few more parameters that we need to test on that include:
- How much the counter jumps for each event
- How long it takes for the counter to degrade over time
- How high the counter has to go before switching to the high det map.
We'll continue our testing and see if they all work as expected.
- How much the counter jumps for each event
- How long it takes for the counter to degrade over time
- How high the counter has to go before switching to the high det map.
We'll continue our testing and see if they all work as expected.
03-02-2011, 12:09 PM
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I just played with them on a fully built TT Z last night. The engine was so stout that there was no getting it to ping at low loads even with TONs of excessive advance. I ran the window all the way to redline and it did not give me any false events, but I didn't try to make it ping at hight load for testing.
Tested today on an 2008 HR Nismo spec. Again I ran the window all the way to redline. It DID give me a couple false events on this car (according to what I could hear on the headphones and what I saw on the dyno), but that was only at red-line so I left it active all the way to the last row where I turned it off.
These parameters are GREAT for tuning NA setups. I could tell exactly where the ECU was fighting agains the advance I was giving it so I knew exactly where to pull back without a lot of trial and error. Not sure how useful it's going to be on fully built engines yet since I haven't made one ping yet.
-Jared@UpRev.com
Tested today on an 2008 HR Nismo spec. Again I ran the window all the way to redline. It DID give me a couple false events on this car (according to what I could hear on the headphones and what I saw on the dyno), but that was only at red-line so I left it active all the way to the last row where I turned it off.
These parameters are GREAT for tuning NA setups. I could tell exactly where the ECU was fighting agains the advance I was giving it so I knew exactly where to pull back without a lot of trial and error. Not sure how useful it's going to be on fully built engines yet since I haven't made one ping yet.
-Jared@UpRev.com
03-02-2011, 12:27 PM
#28
Here is a screen shot of the new knock control table. Essentially the value (1) is knock control enabled, where the value of (0) it is turned off. You can see how it is now tunable on a RPM/Load basis as well as specific to the Map you are on.
03-02-2011, 04:13 PM
#31
What does this actually do control?
Whats the threshold for the switch?
DO we have any control over the ignition retard other than it making the switch to the high DET map?
So with this enabled all the way to redline, the factory knock control regeime, which will pull timing on the fly in the form of a few degrees as it detects detonation, is enabled? BUT we have no control over the sensitivity level or how much ignition is pulled on the fly until enough detonation for it to switch to the high detonation map, but we have no control over how much detonation is enough to make the switch to te high detonation map?
03-03-2011, 05:46 AM
#32
^^^ Correct, they are still working on sensitivity feedback and the code that would make it tunable. The Nissan ECU's are very very fast and the High Det Map is what gets used on the fly. Depending on how high the knock values are is what dictacts the amount of time for it to switch back to the Low Det Map. From experience the Nissan ECU is super sensitive to knock and switches to the high det map rather quickly. I feel this is the reason that from factory Nissan didn't have knock enabled all the way to redline, to try and eliminate the possibly of false knock readings affecting power.
03-03-2011, 06:22 AM
#33
Cool, what I do want to say for all the folks who will read this part of the thread is that if you go to a pro tuner like Vince at R/T they will tune you up on a dyno and you will be good to go, no worries about knock issues even on high power cars. As I am a self tuner and tune on the street this is critical for me becaue my tuning enviroment is not as surgical as a shop dyno. Basically the knock control stuff I am looking for is to cover my a$$ when I am street tuning. UPRev seems to be ontop of it, so dont let my worries make you think twice about letting Vince at R/T tune you using UPRev, he obviouslly knows his stuff!
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