Track day wheels, tires, and mods on a $750 budget
11-07-2011, 09:26 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Track day wheels, tires, and mods on a $750 budget
Hey guys. Let me start off by saying this is the first time I've started a thread. Also, I didn't search to see if anyone else has done a thread similar to this one. Sorry, if that bugs anyone, but I've done a ton of research and thought I should share.
I recently bought my moms old '03 350z touring "for my girlfriend" because my mom was going to get like $4500 for it on trade in and i couldn't miss the chance to buy it cheap, so I gave her $5000, done deal.
Shortly after this a buddy invited me to a track day at Hallett Raceway in Jennings, OK. I said heck yeah, sign me up... then I took the Z out for a hard drive to test it's road manners and discovered how horrible the traction is with stock 225/50/17s... unacceptable.
So I set myself a budget of $750 for upgrades and started reading this forum for tips.
It didn't take long to figure out that the stock 17 inch wheels were not going to work if i was going to put wider tires on the car. To the best of my knowledge 255/45/17 is the widest you can fit on the stock 17x8 wheel (too small) and the 17x7.5s in the front are useless... And my girlfriend probably wouldn't appreciate me burning her tires off every time I go to the track.
So i started researching stock wheels for 350z track models and discovered they are only 8.5" wide and they would blow my budget before i got tires... not going to work.
Then I discovered that the 350z bolt pattern (5x114.3) is exactly the same as 5x4.5", which is also found on all 5 bolt Mustang wheels. This was very exciting to me because I have a 65 mustang in the garage and i thought this might solve my problem without having to buy wheels or tires... then I started learning about wheel offset...
For those of you that haven't seen the billion threads on this website about wheel sizes and offset here's some info:
Stock 350z wheels usually have a +30mm offset.
My 65 Mustang wheels are 17x8 with a +6mm offset (4.75" backspacing)
Nismo Z wheels are 18x9 +30 in the front, 19x10 +30 in the back
Now that i had this information I started searching for the wheel and tire offset calculator I had used in the past at www.rimsntires.com... once I got there I discovered that they have started charging for this program and it made me mad... so I created my own calculator using Microsoft Excel (attached in ZIP file).
Here's what I knew for sure: a 17x8 with a +6 offset (65 Mustang Wheel) fits without rubbing, therefore I had 27mm of space between the fender and the stock tire. Also, the Nismo 19x10 +30 with a 265/35/19 would fit without rubbing, therefore i had 12mm of clearance between the stock tire and the suspension.
So if there is up to 27mm of clearance between the stock tire and the fender and 12mm clearance between the stock tire and the suspension, I have 39mm total clearance to work with. If you add 39mm to the 235mm tire i had in the rear of the car you end up with 274mm. This told me that it must be possible to run at least a 275 tire without having to modify anything on the car... now I just needed to figure out the correct offset to make this work.
So I started reading the forum more and found a post that said 19x10.5 +18 with a 275/35/19 fit in the rear without rolling the fender... which meant i had more fender room than I previously thought... and that a 275 tire should fit on any wheel with positive offset between +18 and +30.
This reminded me of something I had seen while looking at wheels for my mustang: 1995 Cobra R wheels are 17x10.5 with a +28mm offset! Perfect!
I then searched Craigslist for Mustang wheels assuming that i would be able to find a set of mustang wheels for much less than I would be able to find custom wheels or a set of nismo wheels.
Sure enough, after two weeks of checking craigslist, I found a set of cobra R replica wheels for $150! Not 150 a piece, $150 for the set! I bought them immediately.
Pics below: (left) day i bought it, (middle pics) test fitting 17x8 +6mm 65 mustang wheels, (right) test fitting 17x10.5 +28mm cobra R wheels
I recently bought my moms old '03 350z touring "for my girlfriend" because my mom was going to get like $4500 for it on trade in and i couldn't miss the chance to buy it cheap, so I gave her $5000, done deal.
Shortly after this a buddy invited me to a track day at Hallett Raceway in Jennings, OK. I said heck yeah, sign me up... then I took the Z out for a hard drive to test it's road manners and discovered how horrible the traction is with stock 225/50/17s... unacceptable.
So I set myself a budget of $750 for upgrades and started reading this forum for tips.
It didn't take long to figure out that the stock 17 inch wheels were not going to work if i was going to put wider tires on the car. To the best of my knowledge 255/45/17 is the widest you can fit on the stock 17x8 wheel (too small) and the 17x7.5s in the front are useless... And my girlfriend probably wouldn't appreciate me burning her tires off every time I go to the track.
So i started researching stock wheels for 350z track models and discovered they are only 8.5" wide and they would blow my budget before i got tires... not going to work.
Then I discovered that the 350z bolt pattern (5x114.3) is exactly the same as 5x4.5", which is also found on all 5 bolt Mustang wheels. This was very exciting to me because I have a 65 mustang in the garage and i thought this might solve my problem without having to buy wheels or tires... then I started learning about wheel offset...
For those of you that haven't seen the billion threads on this website about wheel sizes and offset here's some info:
Stock 350z wheels usually have a +30mm offset.
My 65 Mustang wheels are 17x8 with a +6mm offset (4.75" backspacing)
Nismo Z wheels are 18x9 +30 in the front, 19x10 +30 in the back
Now that i had this information I started searching for the wheel and tire offset calculator I had used in the past at www.rimsntires.com... once I got there I discovered that they have started charging for this program and it made me mad... so I created my own calculator using Microsoft Excel (attached in ZIP file).
Here's what I knew for sure: a 17x8 with a +6 offset (65 Mustang Wheel) fits without rubbing, therefore I had 27mm of space between the fender and the stock tire. Also, the Nismo 19x10 +30 with a 265/35/19 would fit without rubbing, therefore i had 12mm of clearance between the stock tire and the suspension.
So if there is up to 27mm of clearance between the stock tire and the fender and 12mm clearance between the stock tire and the suspension, I have 39mm total clearance to work with. If you add 39mm to the 235mm tire i had in the rear of the car you end up with 274mm. This told me that it must be possible to run at least a 275 tire without having to modify anything on the car... now I just needed to figure out the correct offset to make this work.
So I started reading the forum more and found a post that said 19x10.5 +18 with a 275/35/19 fit in the rear without rolling the fender... which meant i had more fender room than I previously thought... and that a 275 tire should fit on any wheel with positive offset between +18 and +30.
This reminded me of something I had seen while looking at wheels for my mustang: 1995 Cobra R wheels are 17x10.5 with a +28mm offset! Perfect!
I then searched Craigslist for Mustang wheels assuming that i would be able to find a set of mustang wheels for much less than I would be able to find custom wheels or a set of nismo wheels.
Sure enough, after two weeks of checking craigslist, I found a set of cobra R replica wheels for $150! Not 150 a piece, $150 for the set! I bought them immediately.
Pics below: (left) day i bought it, (middle pics) test fitting 17x8 +6mm 65 mustang wheels, (right) test fitting 17x10.5 +28mm cobra R wheels
Last edited by supsam86; 11-08-2011 at 03:11 PM.
11-07-2011, 09:55 AM
#2
Registered User
Thread Starter
Budget Track Day Prep continued
I then learned that the hub/mount on cobra R wheels is 5/8" thick whereas the stock 350z wheels' hub/mount is about 1/2" thick (probably less). This is a major problem because the lug studs on a stock 350z are 42mm long, whereas the stock lugs on a mustang gt are 50.8mm...
8mm might not sound like much, but when you're planning on going to 120mph+ on a 10 turn circuit... the idea of your lug nuts not having enough room to thread properly is a scary thought... I needed longer studs
I checked ARP bolts and they do have some for the 350z but they're really expensive. Then I learned about ichiba USA, they have studs for about half the price of ARP... So I bought their 50mm studs thinking they were a total of 50mm long, but once I got them I learned that they are actually 63.5mm and the THREAD is 50mm long... I really only needed their 40mm studs, which are cheaper and available here: http://www.ichibausa.com/ProductDeta...Code=NS-122540
I also learned that the lug nuts on the cobra R wheels use a 3/4" hex lug nut, which is smaller than the stock 21mm hex the 350z uses, and that the 21mm does not easily fit in the wheel when you are trying to mount the wheel to the hub, so I recommend using 19mm hex M12-1.25 lug nuts instead, you can find them at any Autozone.
Tires: I'm sure you're all thinking "budget is $750, spent 150 on wheels, and 100 on studs and lug nuts... how are you going to buy four 275/40/17 tires for $500?" The answer is simple. eBay.
I get all my rear tires for my mustang on ebay, especially high performance directional tires. Here's why: when people drive a corvette or a Porsche or whatever and they destroy one of their fairly new tires, the dealership they take it to will tell them that they can't just replace one tire, they have to replace all of them for whatever reason they can make up... trust me, I've seen it happen in person. This means that they are going to have a practically brand new tire with nothing wrong with it sitting around the shop... some of those dealers (the less trustworthy ones of coarse) end up selling those tires on ebay...
I got two 275/40/17 BF Goodrich G-Force T/A KWA's with 8/32 tread remaining for $175 and two 275/40/17 Sumitomo HTR ZIII's with 9/32 tread remaining for $200... grand total for tires= $400 shipped.
So, at this point in time, I've got a set of staggered wheels, tires mounted and balanced, extended studs and smaller lug nuts for a grand total of $700!!
Pics below: (Left) 275/40s all around, (both center pictures) showing 275/40 on the left and 255/45 on the right, (right picture) showing rear fender clearance.
Now, I've got $50 left over, what to do? Ideas appreciated!
8mm might not sound like much, but when you're planning on going to 120mph+ on a 10 turn circuit... the idea of your lug nuts not having enough room to thread properly is a scary thought... I needed longer studs
I checked ARP bolts and they do have some for the 350z but they're really expensive. Then I learned about ichiba USA, they have studs for about half the price of ARP... So I bought their 50mm studs thinking they were a total of 50mm long, but once I got them I learned that they are actually 63.5mm and the THREAD is 50mm long... I really only needed their 40mm studs, which are cheaper and available here: http://www.ichibausa.com/ProductDeta...Code=NS-122540
I also learned that the lug nuts on the cobra R wheels use a 3/4" hex lug nut, which is smaller than the stock 21mm hex the 350z uses, and that the 21mm does not easily fit in the wheel when you are trying to mount the wheel to the hub, so I recommend using 19mm hex M12-1.25 lug nuts instead, you can find them at any Autozone.
Tires: I'm sure you're all thinking "budget is $750, spent 150 on wheels, and 100 on studs and lug nuts... how are you going to buy four 275/40/17 tires for $500?" The answer is simple. eBay.
I get all my rear tires for my mustang on ebay, especially high performance directional tires. Here's why: when people drive a corvette or a Porsche or whatever and they destroy one of their fairly new tires, the dealership they take it to will tell them that they can't just replace one tire, they have to replace all of them for whatever reason they can make up... trust me, I've seen it happen in person. This means that they are going to have a practically brand new tire with nothing wrong with it sitting around the shop... some of those dealers (the less trustworthy ones of coarse) end up selling those tires on ebay...
I got two 275/40/17 BF Goodrich G-Force T/A KWA's with 8/32 tread remaining for $175 and two 275/40/17 Sumitomo HTR ZIII's with 9/32 tread remaining for $200... grand total for tires= $400 shipped.
So, at this point in time, I've got a set of staggered wheels, tires mounted and balanced, extended studs and smaller lug nuts for a grand total of $700!!
Pics below: (Left) 275/40s all around, (both center pictures) showing 275/40 on the left and 255/45 on the right, (right picture) showing rear fender clearance.
Now, I've got $50 left over, what to do? Ideas appreciated!
Last edited by supsam86; 11-07-2011 at 11:14 AM.
11-07-2011, 02:55 PM
#5
Yeah that was a pretty serious budget constraint but you did it and it looks pretty good, I'd prefer 18's but I understand that pushes up the budget for wheels and tires quite a bit.
I must say though, I died a bit inside when you said you picked up a Z for 5K.
I must say though, I died a bit inside when you said you picked up a Z for 5K.
11-08-2011, 08:00 AM
#7
welcome to the forum. great first couple of posts.
as for mis-matched tire brands, did you put the Gforce in the rear?
next step imho to get predictable handling would be to get all four the same tire brand such that there isn't any difference in grip levels... remember. tires are the only thing touching the road, so they affect handling the most.
the remaining $50 imho should be used for better brake pads for better fade resistance or if this is a manual transmission, the Nismo 380RS gas pedal for easier Heel-Toe shifting.
as for mis-matched tire brands, did you put the Gforce in the rear?
next step imho to get predictable handling would be to get all four the same tire brand such that there isn't any difference in grip levels... remember. tires are the only thing touching the road, so they affect handling the most.
the remaining $50 imho should be used for better brake pads for better fade resistance or if this is a manual transmission, the Nismo 380RS gas pedal for easier Heel-Toe shifting.
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11-08-2011, 12:51 PM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
welcome to the forum. great first couple of posts.
as for mis-matched tire brands, did you put the Gforce in the rear?
next step imho to get predictable handling would be to get all four the same tire brand such that there isn't any difference in grip levels... remember. tires are the only thing touching the road, so they affect handling the most.
the remaining $50 imho should be used for better brake pads for better fade resistance or if this is a manual transmission, the Nismo 380RS gas pedal for easier Heel-Toe shifting.
as for mis-matched tire brands, did you put the Gforce in the rear?
next step imho to get predictable handling would be to get all four the same tire brand such that there isn't any difference in grip levels... remember. tires are the only thing touching the road, so they affect handling the most.
the remaining $50 imho should be used for better brake pads for better fade resistance or if this is a manual transmission, the Nismo 380RS gas pedal for easier Heel-Toe shifting.
I think you're all right about brake pads with my remaining $50. I don't think the gas pedal would do me much good because it's an automatic... guess I should have mentioned that in the post. haha.
Thanks again for all the responses.
11-08-2011, 01:10 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
The car has 140k miles on it now but I've been maintaining it since she got it in October of 2002 and I knew everything was in perfect shape. I don't think it's going to happen, but even if the engine or trans dies on me at the track, I know I could get another VQ put in it and still break even when it comes time to sell it.
As for the 18s, that actually would have been cheaper for me because my buddy has an extra set of 275/40/18s laying around, and they would have looked better, but finding 18X9 or 10 wheels with the right offset and bolt pattern for $150 is probably impossible.
Thanks for the response!
11-14-2011, 07:20 AM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Budget Track Car updates
UPDATE: I finally got my last tire, extended studs installed, and my hub centric rings.
I really don't think the hub centric rings did anything. I drove the car for a week without them and I can't tell any difference. But if you feel like you need them, I got mine at justforwheels.com; 66.1 on the inside and 70.4 on the outside, they fit perfectly.
The extended studs ended up being more necessary than I previously thought. While mounting the hub rings I took a closer look at the hub of the Cobra wheels and noticed that the hub itself is about 5/8" thick but there's like a lip on the inside of the hub surrounding the stud holes, which makes me think they're actually about 7/8" (maybe more) thick and you really need at least 10mm of extra length to mount them property... I wouldn't put these wheels on stock studs...
As for the last $50 in my budget: Brake pads... they actually ended up being closer to $80 so my budget is toast but I never really thought I'd make it anyway. $800 isn't bad.
I'll be at the track this Saturday if it doesn't rain, I'll post some pics after.
I really don't think the hub centric rings did anything. I drove the car for a week without them and I can't tell any difference. But if you feel like you need them, I got mine at justforwheels.com; 66.1 on the inside and 70.4 on the outside, they fit perfectly.
The extended studs ended up being more necessary than I previously thought. While mounting the hub rings I took a closer look at the hub of the Cobra wheels and noticed that the hub itself is about 5/8" thick but there's like a lip on the inside of the hub surrounding the stud holes, which makes me think they're actually about 7/8" (maybe more) thick and you really need at least 10mm of extra length to mount them property... I wouldn't put these wheels on stock studs...
As for the last $50 in my budget: Brake pads... they actually ended up being closer to $80 so my budget is toast but I never really thought I'd make it anyway. $800 isn't bad.
I'll be at the track this Saturday if it doesn't rain, I'll post some pics after.
Last edited by supsam86; 11-14-2011 at 07:22 AM.
11-20-2011, 11:51 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Post track update
POST TRACK UPDATE: All went well at Hallett Raceway this weekend! Now I know why all you guys are constantly racing, it's addicting as hell!
My best lap was 1:39.860, which was 3rd in my division, but I'm pretty happy with that because first place was a 2010 GT-R (1:33.606) and second was a Shelby GT500 w/mods (1:39:709).
3rd isn't bad for a stock 350z with 140k miles and original single piston brakes!
Here are some pics from the track.
BTW: I passed that M5 at least twice... and you guys will be happy to hear that the majority of my competition was a GT-R, a Twin Turbo 300ZX, and a 350z with a VQ35HR. Pretty impressive with several corvettes, mustangs and M badge BMWs in the same race...
My best lap was 1:39.860, which was 3rd in my division, but I'm pretty happy with that because first place was a 2010 GT-R (1:33.606) and second was a Shelby GT500 w/mods (1:39:709).
3rd isn't bad for a stock 350z with 140k miles and original single piston brakes!
Here are some pics from the track.
BTW: I passed that M5 at least twice... and you guys will be happy to hear that the majority of my competition was a GT-R, a Twin Turbo 300ZX, and a 350z with a VQ35HR. Pretty impressive with several corvettes, mustangs and M badge BMWs in the same race...
Last edited by supsam86; 11-20-2011 at 11:58 AM.
11-27-2011, 04:55 PM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
03-16-2012, 06:42 AM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
Changes since I realized budgets are lame:
EBC USR slotted rotors front and rear
EBC Bluestuff NDX pads (haven't used yet, waiting for track day)
Energy suspension bushing kit
Godspeed sway bars front and rear
New sway bar links
Timken front wheel bearings (rear coming this weekend)
KYB shocks and struts
New spark plugs
18" OEM Touring V2 wheels (good craigslist deal, $250 with tires!)
275/40/18 Nitto NT555 rear (another craigslist deal, $150!)
225/45/18 fronts (came with the wheels, Rotella brand I think)
Repainted my track wheels last night, going back to gloss black.
New Kumho V700s will be here Monday, 315/35/17, going on the track wheels.
I'll have the new 315s mounted on my repainted track wheels next week and I'm headed to the track again on 3/31/12. I'll post updates. I also got a GoPro video camera for the windshield, so I might post a video as well.
Last edited by supsam86; 03-16-2012 at 07:04 AM.
03-20-2012, 05:42 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Update!
As I said in my last post on this tread, my 315/75/17s came in on Monday. Got them mounted today. To be honest, I thought they would rub but so far so good. I'll let you know if they ever do.
Thanks to 3rd_gear for pushing me to go for them! I'm pretty sure we're one of 3 or 4 on this forum that have taken the leap to anything over 295/30/19.
Thanks to 3rd_gear for pushing me to go for them! I'm pretty sure we're one of 3 or 4 on this forum that have taken the leap to anything over 295/30/19.
Last edited by supsam86; 03-21-2012 at 11:04 AM.
04-01-2012, 01:32 PM
#20
Registered User
Thread Starter
Post track update #2
Went back out to the track yesterday to test out all my new go fast parts and sticky tires. The tires were AMAZING! I NEVER lost grip in the rear, EVER! THE WHOLE DAY!(the new R compound Kumho Vicoracers were only in the back) I could leave my right food hard down at any speed, any corner, any gear and it WOULD. NOT. BREAK. LOOSE! I highly recommend these tires!
Also, the EBC brakes were equally amazing. I went out with their slotted rotors and "bluestuff" pads. They bite like nothing I've ever driven with and NEVER faded! I had them literally smoking and they still never gave any indication that they were tired. If you don't believe me, I've uploaded a video to YouTube of them smoking after I pulled in to the pits because the engine was getting too hot. Watch it here: http://youtu.be/w6HIknCDnMo
Over all, I was extremely happy with everything I've done and upgraded. When it came down to lap times I was limited by traffic because we were only allowed to pass in the straights (primarily a E92 M3, as you can see in the video) so I couldn't really put down any great times but I did manage to beat my best time with a 1:38 lap time; which is almost 2 full seconds faster than my previous best and about 4 seconds slower than a stock GT-R... not bad for an old Z with a tired stock engine and a few hundred bucks worth of suspension and brakes.
See the video of my fastest session here (by the way, I'm not talking to myself, my buddy is in the car with me) http://youtu.be/b2Mg8ts0VLw
Also, the EBC brakes were equally amazing. I went out with their slotted rotors and "bluestuff" pads. They bite like nothing I've ever driven with and NEVER faded! I had them literally smoking and they still never gave any indication that they were tired. If you don't believe me, I've uploaded a video to YouTube of them smoking after I pulled in to the pits because the engine was getting too hot. Watch it here: http://youtu.be/w6HIknCDnMo
Over all, I was extremely happy with everything I've done and upgraded. When it came down to lap times I was limited by traffic because we were only allowed to pass in the straights (primarily a E92 M3, as you can see in the video) so I couldn't really put down any great times but I did manage to beat my best time with a 1:38 lap time; which is almost 2 full seconds faster than my previous best and about 4 seconds slower than a stock GT-R... not bad for an old Z with a tired stock engine and a few hundred bucks worth of suspension and brakes.
See the video of my fastest session here (by the way, I'm not talking to myself, my buddy is in the car with me) http://youtu.be/b2Mg8ts0VLw
Last edited by supsam86; 04-01-2012 at 01:40 PM.