kbiz

I'm gearing everything towards the 4pot front system first... so that's perfect. I'll get those part numbers to you once I'm sure there are no overlooked choices... I'm pretty much down to just two more part numbers I've got to decide between. I've been trying to figure out a way that I could partake of any group buy that might eventually happen, but I'm at minimum going to have to buy one caliper in order to finalize fitment for the bracket... the right answer is that I need to truly test the fitment of the brackets for both wheels. I’ll have to think about that for a minute.

Havok_RLS2

iTrader: (9)

OUTSTANDING Kbiz! Let us know what you come up with.

atlsupdawg#2

My My My, how this thread has grown..

kibiz,
Any chance of posting a scan of the brackets you've received? Maybe trace them on paper with some measurements?? I know a few machinist over in the hanger and wanted to see how long and how much beer I'd have to buy to have them fabricate these brackets. Of course over there those guys have got access to any type of scrap metal you can think of, so granted they can squeeze in a "g-job" here and there maybe I can get a few of these made up.

Don't want to promise anything, but I'll try. Too many eyes are watching these days, especially after the bankruptcy..

Havok_RLS2

iTrader: (9)

You are a great and wonderful person and I hope Santa leaves something extra special under your holiday tree this year.

DZeckhausen

You might want to test the parts yourself on your own car. Or, if you send them out to someone else, have them sign a very explicit disclaimer.

StopTech, Brembo, AP, Alcon, Baer Racing, and Wilwood all have substantial (and expensive) liability policies that protect them and provide an out for their retailers (like me) in the event something goes wrong with a customer's car. If there's a lawyer on the board, perhaps he/she could pipe up here to let us know if such a disclaimer would actually provide any meaningful protection to kbiz if something went wrong. If not, you may want to consider purchasing a liability policy.

You can over engineer the heck out of your bracket, but you have no control over how it is installed or how the car is driven. If your "customer" runs into a school bus and kills a bunch of lawyers kids, a court is going to take a close look at the modifications to the car and the plaintiffs attorney could go after the car owner and the person who supplied him with the modified parts.

Just one more thing to think about as you go down this path. Make sure you've at least considered liability issues. It would be a good idea to have a discussion about this with a lawyer. It's one thing to fabricate cold air intakes. The worst that can happen is that someone's engine is destroyed when water gets sucked in as they drive through a puddle. With brakes, it's a whole other ballgame.

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

I think a way to avoid liability is to provide dimensions or plans for such a bracket, but not to sell them. Also, don't make any other recommendations about materials.

Kbiz, If you want I'll sign a waiver. I don't believe it would be necessary, because I won't run the bracket if I don't think it safe.

kbiz

No problem... the only reason I haven't posted anything yet is because of the unknown offset of the rotors. The Precision Brakes Co bracket is designed, of course, for their rotors even though the hats are wilwood... I wanted to be sure they're correct before posting anything as to avoid anyone getting brackets outta whack... Also, like I posted before you can check out onlinemetals.com as the metal for T6 Aluminum would be under $4 per bracket. But if you're doing scrap recycling, T6 or T7 would be perfect.

There are a couple pics on a previous post and you can see they're pretty simple at 3/8" bar stock. Keep in mind there might be some debate on whether or not to bore vs. drilling the holes...

DZeckhausen

You should use 7075 and not 6061 for the brackets and hats. After machining them to spec, they should be hard anodized.

The bracket being perfectly safe doesn't mitigate the liability issue. If a school bus cuts you off and you run into it (not your fault) and you get sued by a parent, they will find out you had modified brakes during the discovery process. The plaintiff's attorney will make a speech to the jury about how you "tampered" with the safety equipment on your car and were encouraged and assisted by kbiz. The jury will find for the plaintiff and you will both be out a lot of money. It doesn't matter if the bracket wasn't to blame. And it's totally unfair. It's just the way the legal system works in this country. You need to take steps to protect yourself from events that are beyond your control. A waiver will at least shield kbiz, provided it is properly written. I don't know how to shield you. That requires some input from a lawyer.

kbiz

Yeah... as far as liability goes... that's the main/only reason I wouldn't just fab out a bunch of brackets locally and sell them at cost to everyone. I have a patent lawyer already and I mentioned this last week to him. The only way for me to stay in the clear is definitely to not sell the components and if someone does test a bracket, it must be tested for fitment only and not for actual use. That would have to be not only implied but agreed to. If I wanted to distribute a kit, there are a ton of hoops I’d have to go through including insurance. I’ve dealt with potentially dangerous products before in my line of work and I’ve been through the steps. A lot of my products are high output lighting and fire/electrical shock are the main liabilities I’m familiar with. Imagine having a replica of a surgery table lamp catch you and your couch on fire while you napped… definitely good to be careful.

kbiz

I won't be fabricating hats... I'll be going with wilwood hats. Everything but the brackets will be off the shelf and even the brackets must be fabricated by individuals if they're interested in this project.

As far as the legal system goes... yes you're right. Even if you win in court, it's still a nightmare. I've been through it once before and won... it still cost me over $10k that wasn't compensated via my counter claim. It was entirely a BS suit... but none the less it's the American way these days. A friend of mine was sued and because he owned a high powered sports car they pounded that fact to death even though he wasn't speeding. If they think it'll get something out of a jury, they'll try it. Super sucky!!

T7 vs. T6 could be debated... however I have no problem going with T7... It's barely more for the dimensions of this bracket... it's a big diffrence for larger sizes. They could be anodized or cad plated... also keep in mind, much of the Z's suspension components are aluminum and are not anodized at all... Steel is always an option and would open up other finishing possibilities. The difference in weight is not a huge factor.

If people are interested in finding out more info on anodizing and plating at home you guys should check out www.caswellplating.com. On a side note from this project, there are some really inexpensive ways to plate stuff on your Z. Check out the plug N Plate stuff... I've used this type of plating for simple stuff and for quick chroming of prototypes. There's info there for plating plastic which is very cool as well. If you really get into it you can go for a rectifier which allows you to do hard core plating and anodizing... anodizing is more of a pain in the *ss than plating so keep that in mind. Hey... maybe someone wants to chorme their center console I wouldn't recomend a plating tank for that one, however...

kbiz

Oh, and if you did want to test some brackets for this project, I wouldn't expect you to return them... the least I can do is provide you with a working set for your troubles. Of course they would have to be for fitment testing only...

Inovashn

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chebosto
Hey Jeff/ or other stoptech 2005+ owners:

when installing your rear 13" bbk from stoptech, did u have any issues with the rear caliper bracket being too small (lining up the holes?) for 2005 + model years?

i was helping my friend Kevin install a 13" 4 wheel BBK he got from COZ and the brackets seem to be for a 03-04 350z... since the 05s have a larger brake caliper and rotor from the 03/04s.. this bracket was too small and we couldnt install the caliper!
grrrr..

any help? thanks

Cheston



This only applies to the G35 2005+ Owners, the 350Z Kits are still the same(2003-2006). Stoptech is on the case and will resolve this ASAP

Coz

Inovashn

iTrader: (6)

i guess the stoptech guys were too busy arguing on the forum instead of doing r & d

kbiz

Oh jeeze... I'm not touchin' that one!! Heh...

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

Thanks dad!

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

It would be most appreciated. Sorry for the outburst on your thread, but I really couldn't take it anymore. I can assure you that the brakes will not be tested around school busses for christ sakes.

kbiz

Hey... I don't mind outbursts...

I was on the freeway bedding in my brake pads... you know. I was on my 4th run dropping from 100 down to 10 mph... standin on my brakes just before lockup... damn it if I didn't almost cause a school bus to slam into me!!! What the hell ever got me thinkin I should be bedding my pads like this... close one. If the parents would have sued me I'd surely have to figure out someone to take down with me... where was it I read that bedding tutorial anyway...

gringott

iTrader: (17)

Classic.

Havok_RLS2

iTrader: (9)

Never a dull moment.

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

LOL! The only thing more risky than putting together a DIY brake kit, is giving out free legal advice on the Internet! I hope he has liability insurance for practicing law online.

I'm not sure what your time frame is for putting these together, but I'm working on sharing some closed track time with another race car owner at a local track here early next year. Possibly the end of March. That would be about the soonest that I could test them. I could install them sooner, but I wouldn't be able to give logged data until then.