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Old 07-26-2007, 02:03 PM   #1
nothingremains
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Question Royal Purple or Amsoil?

I have used Royal Purple for about 10k miles now and am happy with it..Should I switch to Amsoil? Isnt Amsoil like the best oil you can buy?
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:06 PM   #2
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What do you mean by best?
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:14 PM   #3
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idk everyone on here just talks so great about it...

the car is my daily driver, and i wont ever track or race it..just want the best oil i can get for protection..
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:20 PM   #4
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Go to their websites and compare. I run Royal Purple and I love it.
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Old 07-26-2007, 02:30 PM   #5
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Amsoil for protection. Run RP for the hype.

RP has high moly which causes high wear on engines and it has shown in tests. Cummings bans the use of RP in their engines for this reason.
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Old 07-26-2007, 05:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingremains
I have used Royal Purple for about 10k miles now and am happy with it..Should I switch to Amsoil? Isnt Amsoil like the best oil you can buy?
No, Amsoil is not the best you can buy. Not for the VQ35DE anyways. But it is a great oil blender. If you're happy with RP, then why change? It's not the best oil you can use in your engine but it's not going to damage it either. See this sticky for detailed information and comparisons of various used oil analysis:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258663
RP 10W-30 is an average to below average oil in terms of wear metals, and the 5W-30 is one of the worst in both protection and shearing. Amsoil 0W-30 is one of the best performers in terms of wear, longevity, and shear stability. So, if you want to switch to Amsoil, that's the one to get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nothingremains
idk everyone on here just talks so great about it...

the car is my daily driver, and i wont ever track or race it..just want the best oil i can get for protection..
If you change the oil every 3k miles or so, then you don't need the longevity of Amsoil, and if you don't track your car then you don't need the shear stability of it either. Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 will give much better protection than either of the Royal Purple oils tested, for a lot less money. It's perfect for the daily driver who does standard oil change intervals. And the 10W-30 is perfect for your climate in Florida.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
Amsoil for protection. Run RP for the hype.

RP has high moly which causes high wear on engines and it has shown in tests. Cummings bans the use of RP in their engines for this reason.
Where do people get this information from? This is totally false. Molybdenum TDC is one of the most common and best performing anti-wear and friction modifier additives used in any oil. And RP hardly uses a lot of it. Most HDMO and racing oils use WAY more Moly than RP. Even Amsoil uses some Moly TDC in their formulation. Most of your higher quality oils use a decent amount of Moly to replace the additive ZDDP that has to be cut back to meet API SM certifications. There is an entire list of additives and their functions in the link I posted above.
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Old 07-26-2007, 05:19 PM   #7
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LOL! I suggest you look up what Moly really does before you think its a antiwear friction. lol. I have been on BITOG forums for years, and know what oils are best. Moly is bad for engines. It actually causes more wear. BITOG has more data that supports what oils are best in many engines and not just the VQ. I have ran Amsoil for 4 years now, was a M1 fan. Had a friend that ran RP and went to Amsoil and he noticed a good difference in the way his car runs now. Much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
No, Amsoil is not the best you can buy. Not for the VQ35DE anyways. But it is a great oil blender. If you're happy with RP, then why change? It's not the best oil you can use in your engine but it's not going to damage it either. See this sticky for detailed information and comparisons of various used oil analysis:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258663
RP 10W-30 is an average to below average oil in terms of wear metals, and the 5W-30 is one of the worst in both protection and shearing. Amsoil 0W-30 is one of the best performers in terms of wear, longevity, and shear stability. So, if you want to switch to Amsoil, that's the one to get.



If you change the oil every 3k miles or so, then you don't need the longevity of Amsoil, and if you don't track your car then you don't need the shear stability of it either. Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 will give much better protection than either of the Royal Purple oils tested, for a lot less money. It's perfect for the daily driver who does standard oil change intervals. And the 10W-30 is perfect for your climate in Florida.



Where do people get this information from? This is totally false. Molybdenum TDC is one of the most common and best performing anti-wear and friction modifier additives used in any oil. And RP hardly uses a lot of it. Most HDMO and racing oils use WAY more Moly than RP. Even Amsoil uses some Moly TDC in their formulation. Most of your higher quality oils use a decent amount of Moly to replace the additive ZDDP that has to be cut back to meet API SM certifications. There is an entire list of additives and their functions in the link I posted above.
Will
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Old 07-26-2007, 05:43 PM   #8
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http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...3&fpart=3&vc=1 one long post, gets interesting by the 3rd page, RP imho sucks
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Old 07-26-2007, 05:44 PM   #9
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hmmmm so i guess i will check out amsoil 0-w30
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
LOL! I suggest you look up what Moly really does before you think its a antiwear friction. lol. I have been on BITOG forums for years, and know what oils are best. Moly is bad for engines. It actually causes more wear. BITOG has more data that supports what oils are best in many engines and not just the VQ. I have ran Amsoil for 4 years now, was a M1 fan. Had a friend that ran RP and went to Amsoil and he noticed a good difference in the way his car runs now. Much better.
Since you mentioned BITOG, let's start there.

First, since you don't think Moly is an Anti-wear additve or friction reducer/modifier (you said antiwear friction, what the hell is that?) check this out on AW and FM additives, and notice this line right in the beginning of the post,
Quote:
organometallic compounds (such as Molybdenum dithiophosphates, Molybdenum dithiocarbamates, Antimony dithiocarbamates) have shown their ability to build and maintain strong boundary lubrication films under severe load conditions and heat.
link: http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=0#Post721319

Second, list of AW/Extreme Pressure/FM additives used in engine oils:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=1#Post525684
You might notice three diferent formulations of Moly are listed.

Next, the moly we refer to is not a solid and is not harmful to engines, so maybe you're thinking of PTFE, which is banned from use in fleet vehicle warranties by manufacturers:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=1#Post526278

Complete list of aditives used in oils, and what they do. Might notice the use of Moly as AW and FM additives:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=0#Post525547

And this really sums up the issue best:
Quote:
Not unlike other additives moly by itself is no different than anything else. The proper moly with the good base stocks, and the correct chemistry has been proven as an excellent engine oil additive with multiple benefits.
and..
Quote:
Compounds of molybdenum dialkyldithiocarbamate (MoDTC) are invisible, oil soluble, and work very well in motor oil and hydraulic oil. This is the "moly" that is properly used in motor oil.
in this thread discussing the same argument you present:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...rue#Post106393
Notice Moly DTC is not mentioned as an issue, but as a benefit. I guess I was right.
Now, since you are such a big BITOG guy, then I am sure you know that Molakule is a tribologist who used to run his own blending facility. You might also know of Terry Dyson on the forums as well. They both seem to disagree with you.
Because you are wrong.

Not only that, but to say you know what oils are best because you have seen what works best in other engines besides the VQ is ludacrous. This might be news to you, but different engines have diferent clearances, pumps, run at different pressures, have different cam set-ups, and use different materials for different components. What works well in one engine does not mean it will work well in a different engine. I can show you how well RP looks in a Jeep 4.0L, and sucks in the VQ. If you really paid attention to the BITOG guru's you would know that. You can get a good idea of what oils to try based on UOA's of other engines, but only UOA's from the VQ in the Z are pertinent to deciphering which oils work the best in the Z. And RP doesn't perform that well, and while Amsoil TSO looks good, Schaeffer's is better and uses quite a bit of Moly. The data proves it.

So, what proof do you have to support your claim? BITOG members who are tribologists don't support your claim, maybe some ignorant users might, but no one who knows what they are talking about.
Any links not from Amsoil sales pages? I have about 20 more links from outside BITOG, from engineering sites and SAE papers to support moly in an engine as an AW/FM/EP additive. Do you have anything to refute it?

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Old 07-26-2007, 06:12 PM   #11
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You can run RP if you wish, but years of reports on maxima.org with the VQ shows RP is not good at all. Sorry to say.

And Terry recommended to me Amsoil over RP. lol.
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:13 PM   #12
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Dont argue with resolute he know,s his stuff about oil,but i will still continue to use amsoil.
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:22 PM   #13
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Dunno, he has only been on the Bob forums since the 12th of this month. lol.
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
You can run RP if you wish, but years of reports on maxima.org with the VQ shows RP is not good at all. Sorry to say.

And Terry recommended to me Amsoil over RP. lol.
Don't be sorry, RP hasn't done well in the VQ, and the sticky I posted above shows this. Hence why I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by resolute
RP 10W-30 is an average to below average oil in terms of wear metals, and the 5W-30 is one of the worst in both protection and shearing. Amsoil 0W-30 is one of the best performers in terms of wear, longevity, and shear stability. So, if you want to switch to Amsoil, that's the one to get.
Have you checked the UOA comparison charts posted here?

I'm sure Terry did recommend Amsoil over RP, he also will recommend Schaeffer's for the VQ if you ask him, and Schaeffer's has a very high Moly package. According to your argument, Moly is bad for your engine and causes excess wear. That is wrong information. If you've hired him for a consult on your analysis, then you can check everything I've posted with him. If you have done your own analysis to have him look at, then please add it to the sticky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
Dunno, he has only been on the Bob forums since the 12th of this month. lol.
I'm not sure why that's funny, but whatever gets you your jollies. I haven't needed to post a question for a long time on BITOG, until recently, so I'm a new member and longtime lurker. Maybe you've been a registered user over there longer, but if you read more informative posts on the site you'd know you were wrong about Moly?

Post your UOA on Amsoil so I can add it to the charts,
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:51 PM   #15
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I've had really good luck with Lucas, it holds up under tough driving and it's 100+ here most of the time.
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthless18x
I've had really good luck with Lucas, it holds up under tough driving and it's 100+ here most of the time.
I don't suppose you've had a UOA done on it? You'd be the first to test it in a VQ. I'd be curious to see it. I have a VOA on file and it uses a pretty hefty Additive Pack, but it hasn't fared very well in other engines. Maybe it's good for the VQ? Only one way to know...

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Old 07-26-2007, 07:31 PM   #17
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As you may know, RP is big in racing circles. The chemistry they use is
something we choose not to use. One of our big selling points is extended
drain intervals. Some additive chemicals can cause adverse conditions when
used for long periods.

Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.

Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan. This seems to be more likely when using extended drain intervals. The only test we ran on RP involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 20W50 Racing
Oil (TRO). We ran two 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a
spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a 12.51% boil off rate.
This compares to TRO with a 4.47% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the TRO. For example the TRO left a .41mm scar and the RP oil
left a .66mm scar. There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity
index. The RP has a VI of 129 versus 155 for the TRO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures.

This information was provided by AMSOIL Tech Department. They had an independent lab test Royal Purple against AMSOIL. The results are posted above. They have found Moly in Royal Purple. As stated above, this can have negative effects on your engine.

AMSOIL has been dyno tested against Royal Purple, in a issue of Fast Fours & Rotaries magazine.





Although it's not a tremendous difference, it is factually proven that you
burn less oil with amsoil as compared to royal purple. Your car would use
the EAO12 filter, and 5 quarts of SAE 5W-30 amsoil. I would recommend that
you get 6 quarts as burnoff is going to happen slowly either way. However
your filter will last for a year regaurdless of burnoff. Depending on the
mileage, I would recommend that you use an amsoil engine flush to help
prepare the seals, and clean out the remaining moly particles from the royal
purple. If you are a performance nut, we also offer, the P.I. fuel injector
cleaner, and the power foam to clean your intake out from the injectors, to
the muffler. They're all good products, but it's your choice which you
would prefer to be used in your car. I've broken the items down seperately
so you can pick and choose what you would prefer to install.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:21 PM   #18
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OK, let's run through this again to seperate the BS...

First you said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
RP has high moly which causes high wear on engines and it has shown in tests. Cummings bans the use of RP in their engines for this reason.
This is wrong, so I posted,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
Molybdenum TDC is one of the most common and best performing anti-wear and friction modifier additives used in any oil. And RP hardly uses a lot of it. Most HDMO and racing oils use WAY more Moly than RP. Even Amsoil uses some Moly TDC in their formulation. Most of your higher quality oils use a decent amount of Moly to replace the additive ZDDP that has to be cut back to meet API SM certifications. There is an entire list of additives and their functions in the link I posted above.
Will
Then you said that Moly is not a good additive and will cause extra wear in an engine,
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
LOL! I suggest you look up what Moly really does before you think its a antiwear friction. lol. I have been on BITOG forums for years, and know what oils are best. Moly is bad for engines. It actually causes more wear. BITOG has more data that supports what oils are best in many engines and not just the VQ.
So I posted a whole bunch of links from the BITOG site you mentioned that refutes your claim and shows Moly TDC to be a good additive. As I said from the beginning. I asked you to refer to something else besides Amsoil matketing to support your claim that Moly is bad for an engine:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
So, what proof do you have to support your claim?..
Any links not from Amsoil sales pages? I have about 20 more links from outside BITOG, from engineering sites and SAE papers to support moly in an engine as an AW/FM/EP additive. Do you have anything to refute it?
And now you post a quote from Amsoil's sales page:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLO-350Z
Royal Purple uses a different chemistry than most. They are one of only a handful of marketers using Moly in their oil. Moly is a solid, specifically banned by Cummins, due to excessive valve train wear.

Moly (Molybdenum Disulfide) is a processed mineral that is similar in appearance to graphite. Moly has good lubricating properties when used either by itself (in dry power form or as an additive to oil or other lubricants). Particles of the Moly can come out of suspension and agglomerate. This can actually clog oil filters or oil lines and the rest normally settles in the bottom of the oil pan.
The reason why I mentioned not posting anything on Moly from Amsoil's sales pitches is because the information they post is misleading. Molybdenum Disulfide is not used in engine oils. Period. "Moly" is referred to the use of Moly TDC (Molybdenum dithiophosphates, Molybdenum dithiocarbamates) which is why I explicitly labeled it as such. Commonly known as MoTDC.
Amsoil likes to use this little slight of hand to sell oil, but the truth is even they have to use some MoTDC in their formulation. Don't take my word for it, check the UOA's posted on Amsoil by users. The ASL 5W-30 formulation uses 25ppm of it. Not a lot, but it's there. Virgin Oil Analysis will confirm it and can be found posted on BITOG VOA forum with a search.
In fact, every single oil tested so far will use it, and high performance oils like Motul and Redline use a ton of it. So does every M1, Delvac, Shell, PP, RP, Schaefer's, Silkolene, Pentosyn, Esso, and more.. And the two best performing oils to date in the VQ in terms of wear, based on a good collection of UOA's in the sticky, are PP 10W-30 and Schaeffer's 5W-30. Both use MoTDC.
So, while Amsoil will say Moly Disulfide is bad, and it has been shown to be corrosive so this is a true statement, they don't mention the Moly that engine oils use. They're funny like that. Or slick (pun).
As far as the 4 ball wear scars go, that is not the best indicator of oil performance. I could post a dozen links to show you that, but being a BITOG guy, you can do the search and find out for yourself.

Now, the OP asked if he should switch to Amsoil. I have said that the TSO is the way to go and outperforms the RP weights we've seen UOA's on, hands down. But Amsoil is not the be all or end all of oils. To try and scare him off from any other oil by quoting misleading Amsoil rhetoric about the dangers of Moly is wrong. For his application, the PP 10W-30 looks like a better option, since the cost is less and the performance best for normal drain intervals and no racing use. The data backs this up.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute
I don't suppose you've had a UOA done on it? You'd be the first to test it in a VQ. I'd be curious to see it. I have a VOA on file and it uses a pretty hefty Additive Pack, but it hasn't fared very well in other engines. Maybe it's good for the VQ? Only one way to know...

Will
I'm confused, are we talking about the same thing?
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:45 PM   #20
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Hello Everyone,

I have read your posts about which is better, AMSOIL VS. Royal Purple, and most of your posts are correct and some of them are incorrect. This is my advice on the issue. I think that if price is not an issue, you should protect your car with the lubricants you can afford, depending on your driving habits. It money is an issue, you should use the best oil for the money, but remember, you get what you pay for. Some lubricants are better for performance, and some are better for extended drain intervals, and some are better at both. You can look at data all day, but until you put whichever lubricant(s) that you are comparing in your vehicle and keep good records, you are not going to have first hand experience of which lubricant is better for your vehicle. I have used Pennzoil, Castrol, and Amsoil, as far as synthetics, and they all have their good points and bad points, but I have experience using them and not only relying on the data. Ultimately, you will have to experiment to see what works best for you. Yes, I am an Amsoil dealer, but I have tried the other synthetics as well. I have not tried RP yet, but it is next on my list.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:45 PM
MyG37
Infiniti G37




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350z, additives, amsoil, antimony, asl, bitog, compare, compared, dialkyldithiocarbamate, ftir, good, lubrication, molybdenum, purple, royal, voa



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