rcdash

iTrader: (18)

OMG, the hood thing isn't that big a deal is it? LOL.

Reviewing this thread I see someone thinks the Stillen will have seal issues giving it higher PSIs but I don't think I'd care about that. It would get a big turbo spinning faster, which is all that would really be its purpose.

Is Stillen a twin screw - I cannot even remember...

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

no reason you couldnt retrofit a M92 on there it seems.


just mill the stock plenum flat and retap

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

The link did not work for me. It wants me to sign up first (not tonight, maype later).

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

ah ha ninja edit.... i uploaded the pic, should work now...


nevr really looked to see how the stillen installed. Pretty neat how they run the pulleys.


and would be easy'ish to run the heat exchanger since it uses a standard water pump, it could go anywhere

Boosted Performance

iTrader: (14)

rcdash: Stillen = Eaton....same blower. The only thing is that the s/c needs to be a twin screw/roots blower. It can not be a centrigula s/c.

I would stay away from the stillen desighn. I would do it like so:

A/C removed:

Turbo----BOV---S/C----FMIC----BOV---TB

With this the supercharger would help the turbo spool much quicker, as it is sucking air through the compressor housing.

The roots blowers can handle temperatures in the 200deg F, so routing it this way would be fine. This would work great with my kit for example as my charge pipe already runs by the a/c compressor (where the s/c would be) The s/c would be on the way to the FMIC as things sit on my car right now. I would just have to add the s/c and BOV between the turbo and s/c.

You could also spray water/meth after the turbo before the s/c if you wish to cool things down a bit.

johnwigs

kenny belle superchargers are screw type... way more efficient then roots style... heat exchanger usually not needed... factory uses roots type because of the low noise that is made... and a roots type supercharger is not positive displacment... meaning that boost is not made. it just shoves in the air more than the engine can consume... screw type uses two diffent size screws and compresses air inside the supercharger... and kenny belle superchagers are about 75% smaller than same CFM roots style supercharger. vortech superchargers build boost as RPMS increase but also alot of heat is introduced to the charge. for an example of successful twin charged engine nissan used the ma09ert in the K10 march... or the most famous twin charged car... the detomaso pantera

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

Any links?

FYI, we have already discussed Kenny Belle SCs somewhere in this thread.

binder

iTrader: (8)

this must be aftermarket someone built because my buddie's '74 pantera is all motor.

madmac

I'd be very careful about heat into the blower. I overheated a blower in the early days and expanded the rotors so much they seized and collected the casing on the way. A water/air chargecooler is now fitted to cool the turbo charge from 90c to 30c and make the system safe. You'd also need to cool the compounded charge before it enters the engine via an intercooler.

Mounting a blower in the engine 'V' is usually simple enough but it doesn't give many options for chargecooling. If there's room, mount it at the side of the engine then you can route pipeswork to a front mounted IC. packaging is usually a big job with a lot of thought needed

Air filter - turbo - chargecooler - BOV - SC - Intercooler - BOV - plenum

The 2nd BOV after the SC has 2 jobs. First it blows off when you shut the throttle, 2nd it stops any boost building up in the pipe if the bypass should fail. This is what happened to mine. The bypass didn't fail but the vacuum in the plenum wasn't enough to open the bypass fully at cruise throttle. The air then passed around the bypass thousands of times, heating up each time until the unit overheated. having the BOV allows the hot compressed air to escape and fresh cold charge go in to cool the SC. That was an expensive lesson learned!

Boosted Performance

iTrader: (14)

I think for most part people with this platform would not run 2.5 bar boost pressure. So the air temperature at the turbo would never reach 90deg C.

I think it is safe to say that most people run 1-1.5bar with this motor. There are a hand full that run more, but it is not that common.

I do however understand that a chargecooler is a good idea.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Or insist on W/M injection? Hooking up multiple small nozzles to keep the charge cool would be relatively straightforward and takes up virtually no space (other than the tank, which can be position in the trunk). I think you could run without an IC or charge cooler entirely.

madmac

I would disagree strongly with this. Water injection isn't anywhere as good as tuners make it out to be. WI is basically used to mask a problem that needs to be dealth with properly. Having looked into this before i wouldn't even bother installing a kit now. There's no substitute for chargecooling either air/water or air/air. I guess boost pressures as high as i'm running aren't that common with the 350Z?

If you're running boost of 1.5 bar total then you could run a fairly small SC but use a turbo slightly bigger than you would if it was a standalone turbo system. This will give good top-end flow and keep the SC fed with dense air but with the SC added, the turbo will spool much earlier than it would otherwise.

XBS

iTrader: (29)

Whipple charger?

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Why? I have read of several folks that have maintained temps even removing their air-air intercooler. I run an IC of course and just add the injection pre-TB, but the temps always immediately fall to ambient or below on spray.

George, is that you? How's the 700 whp on WI working out? Whipple does seem like the best choice in terms of efficiency. Wonder if you can avoid the extra heat exchanger? Might actually fit under the hood without one.

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

Misinformation. A roots blower is 100% a positive displacement blower. Air is sucked in between the meshing lobes and compressed over the rotation of the lobes.

Chris@FsP

iTrader: (4)

He's actually correct. In a roots-type supercharger, the air is not technically being compressed within the charger itself, it basically 'pushes' the air into the manifold where it accumulates and is then compressed. That's where the term 'blower' came from

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

quick ebay search shows the good condition M90 blowers only go for 300$ or less! it could be a fairly inexpensive project for someone with access to a machine shop

madmac

Sorry, i was perhaps a bit harsh. Thinking about this again today, because you're running much lower boost than me, the WI will lower the charge closer to ambient, although in my experience a good intercooler is the way to go. We're running boost of 2.2-3bar on race engines and WI has such a tiny effect on charge temps that it's not worthwhile the expense and weight - and is a sticking plaster over the real problem of an incorrectly sized intercooler. I realise that it's colder over here so our ambient temp is likely to be a good bit lower on average and this is perhaps why our findings differ. It's always cold in Scotland...!

The intercooler on the Evo reduces the combined charge temps from 185c to 8c at ambient of 7c! Compressing the charge in 2 stages results in lower charge temps than if the air was compressed in 1 stage, On a compound system the combined charge will be cooler before it hits the IC than a turbo on it's own achieving the same boost.

Chris is correct, roots blowers are quite different to HTV superchargers. HTV's compress within the housing and can have efficiencies up to 76%. They also have a larger capacity for the same physical size than a roots blower, so in most cases you can use a smaller unit to do the same job as a large roots blower

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Go for it - mad man!

Tian

Bump. Keeping an eye on this thread for future reference