PhoenixINX

Just got down to the shop, and had possibly the best laugh ever.

I saw Doug playing with a stock plenum, low and behold it had a spacer?!?!?!

I asked where he got it? He points to the plenum gasket pile.

Well no kidding, this makes PERFECT sense... If you want the EXACT same gains as all these other spacers out there (which are marked up INSANELY), just buy 11 gaskets from Doug (or your local Nissan dealer, only $2.56 a piece) and stack them, there is your 1/4" spacer!!!! They are VERY rigid steel oem pieces, and seal perfectly. We tried!!!

I figured I'd take a few pics, so enjoy these! (Click to enlarge) Finally we have a cheapy mod like the V8 boys, minimal gains... doesn't cost squat. Enjoy! From all your friends at Crawfords!

AARON@ALTERED

I'm a little curious. Don't you think this is going to leak a little? Are you gonna use RTV to seal it.You should compare this to the Crawford Intake manifolds.Another question once you tighten the bolts it's going to be less than a 1/4 " correct.

PhoenixINX

I live and breathe the Crawford manifolds...

I've been around since their inception... and personally ran the second prototype. Hell, a bit of my sweat went into them. We tried this idea (spacer) YEARS ago, within weeks of getting the Z. NO GAINS.

They don't leak, they work great... End of story. There are steel! We don't use cork gaskets! Also, PLEASE don't use RTV around the plenum, as gas/fumes gets into this area and causes EXTREME deterieration of the RTV compound itself.

No offense, but the whole spacer idea should NEVER cost anyone more than what they carry in their wallet. It's a cheap idea, and gives subpar if any results.

Though hey... whatever works. People LOVE snake oil.

Best of luck in the business.

We'll be at the Dragon with several Crawford powered cars, have anything you want to bring?

JisNis

iTrader: (18)

Im gonna try it...hahahahhahah For $26 bucks, why not?

TimeAttack

You guys have dyno'ed this setup before and saw NO GAINS?

Shouldn't there at least be some gain, like 2-5 hp? Since the
theory behind the spacer is the same as the theory behind the
Crawford plenum: Provide greater volume of air to the cylinders.

pdjafari

iTrader: (-1)

That doesnt sound right to me...the more 'gaskets' you use, the more potential for a leak IMO. Not to mention to get all gaskets to fit snug and fit flawlessly, you probably end up overtorquing the screws on your plenum thereby damaging it. If the front 2 cylinder's are 'starved' for air, and the plenum's resolve this issue by raising up the front, then why would a spacer not in effect perform the same function?? Unless the plenums have some alternate design internally, that is significantly different from the stock plenum...which i doubt as they take a core meaning the aftermarkets are made/designed based on stock specs.....Again a spacer, not 200 gaskets?? It seems a little off to me but thats just my .02 cents.

stx

I thought Doug had said the spacers did give gains but not as much as the plenum.

AARON@ALTERED

Well put I agree with you.

screaminz

Ah this is Crawford showing there anger about the whole spacer ordeal on the other forum and here now too.. Thats funny guys but these spacers are making just as much if not more power than your setup and it has been proven.. This thread will only make you look bad....
screaminz

PhoenixINX

TimeAttack, we have been testing this plenum before the car was even released. Crawford's drove on of the mules (reference Automobile Magazine, Introduction to the 350z : Sept 2002). It's been researched, and proved not worthwhile to our customers.

HOWEVER in this case, if people are THAT interested... here's our budget solution.

DING DING DING, you are teh \/\/I/\//\/aR!!!!

They DO the same function, EXCEPT the new cast plenum (and also the version 5) have SO MUCH more volume then a stock plenum with a spacer.

In the case of this car, more volume = more power.

If you're going the spacer route, go with this. No need to pay high dollar for this simple solution.

FYI guys... teflon coated steel gaskets don't leak. (Per the reason you can keep reusing it... GREAT STUFF!!!)

If it works, spend $29... You will be the winner on your block!

As for getting mad, we stay WAY to busy to even start to get that way. We make what works for our cars, not until then do you see it available for the market.

PhoenixINX

Save cash... Buy the Crawford Spacer.

Guys seriously, if you're taking us seriously you need to understand WHO we are.

People who have hung with us at events, shows, etc... KNOW we love to have fun and take care of everyone. We're not here to waste your time...

However, on a serious note... if you DO want to run a spacer this method works beautifully. Seals great... doesn't leak... and doesn't over-torque ANYTHING.

If anyone is ever near us, please come visit...

350zdanny

Even if you do over-torque the bolt, the head will just pop off. You won't damage the plenum. Believe me, I've done it.

My Crawford V5 was warped slightly so I mistakenly tried to torque down a bolt a little too much.

As far as Phoenix's cheap spacer, it should definitely work fine. The gaskets will seal. But in all fairness, it's definitely not as good a design as the tapered spacers that are being dyno tested and the tapered one would likely add more power.

That said, I'm on the list for the new Crawford cast plenum.

Sins4u33

iTrader: (4)

Even as a 350Z owner, myself...i am very intersted in the crawford plenum too...i would love to see how this plenum does with my F/I application....i am really considering buying it...i am not going to be narrow minded and stick with one thing....i like to have my options open, right now im running the kinetix intake plenum...i love it, i loved it when i had an NA motor...but im worried about reliability...the plenum sounds amazing, but im still very open minded....i think the crawford plenum is a peice of work...i love how they finally got away from doing the core exhange program so people can keap there stock plenums...this is the main reason i went with kinetix...but nevertheless crawford is a very good company and they have been around for a long time i wouldn't doubt there products...but this spacer to me seem to be the most cosmetic way to go...great idea though, hope to hear more about the new plenum when its going to be released and etc...

Thanks,
Ben Yavari
AAM

JAMESZ

If you ever take Chris seriously something is wrong. I have met him before; he definately should not ever be taken seriously he is simply a fountain of misinformation.

pdjafari

iTrader: (-1)

On the g35driver site, 'Hydrazine' ran on a dynopack w/ a V5 crawford and a 1/4'' spacer and produced these numbers based on his results he got '5HP or something better than a V5 crawford'. I am skeptical, not just on the spacer's 'dynopak' results because it was only tested on one car, and done on a 'dynopak?' but on the crawford/kinetix one's because some people who have the plenums cant really 'feel' any gain or notice a gain on a dyno compared to what the manuf. suggested. Hell, im skeptical to just about all manufacturer's HP #s when it comes to aftermarket parts. But when it comes to a plenum, I read/hear what the manuf. has done to 'improve' the 'starvation' problem and common sense is telling me 'whats the difference' (spacer raises plenum just like a moded plenum). I am skeptical on those spacer's results because its kinda like those 'too good to be true, you just won $500,000 call in the next 24hrs to collect' 'scams?' and I know alot of manufacturers and people try to put out cheaper products that claim better if not equal numbers to the real deal. And assuming both products truly provided 'no gain' then I will either not make any purchase or if i do, I will purchase the cheaper alternative since both do nothing (just as an example). But if I owned my own aftermarket performance business, I would PROVE to myself and maybe the consumer by purchasing the competitor's item and putting it to the test. And if my product is better than the competitor's I would use that to market my product because I would have a competitive advantage using dyno sheets and product demonstrations/dyno days etc. Now if my product was worse as in performance wise, id either go back to the drawing board, OR i would provide the product at a more competitive price if possible. I am not here to talk down on any product or manufacturer's claim. I really respect the sweat and effor that Crawford and any other manufacturer puts into their products. However at the same time I realize that in our times, everyone has an opinion and wants proof, and I understand that to maintain a successful business you need revenue. I am in no way supporting either parties claims for HP nor their product. When it comes down to it for performance, I can give you all an estimate of what HP i should have w/ my intake but nobody will accept what I, nor the manufacturer says, but they WILL accept what a dyno says. (assuming everything was done legitimately). I think during a dyno day someone should run a number of stock Z/G's cars a number of times w/ the different plenum mods available to truly show which/IF ANY is best bang for the buck. I really dont know which is the best way to go, i personally went the spacer route b/c for now Its one that requires no trade-in of my stock plenum. But I would love to be a guinea pig for a test of this nature to determine which is best/if any, and who knows, maybe you'll see my name next to a kinetix/crawford order soon!!

westpak

iTrader: (19)

Steel? I thought that gasket was like a heavy paper type, the lower plenum gasket is metal.

FairladyZ

I talked with my old man (mech eng) he said it might work but it doesnt sound right. He was saying you could use a thin layer of gasket sealer on each gasket. But, he is not sure about heat and stress. It could easily warp the gaskets. Also torque means everything b/c you could actually squeeze one side more, thus presenting leaks.

He actually has a CNC machine at his shop and his buddy could make me one.

ZinMiami

iTrader: (2)

A spacer, a plenum. Both do the same thing. Increase air volume to the runners. If the spacer is engineered to give the same volumetric increases, it should provide similar results to an actual pleneum. The aftermarket plenums are not majic nor differ much from the OEM design, especially Crawford. They are taller as to allow more air volume. Why would an OEM plenum with a quality spacer not do the same. What we need to know is how much additional air volume does the spacer provide and whether that increase is effective. If it is essentially equal to a Crawford or Kinetix plenum, then results will be similar.

Now the idea of many OEM gaskets is asking for trouble and reliability issues.

nuttyprof

iTrader: (1)

well, pdjafari, thats why i feel that the new spacer might actually be worth a shot. they dynod both a v5 and one of their spacers. and it was a 3rd party not the manufacturer that did the dyno.

i dunno, maybe the spacer had some NOS coated on the inside or something. id like to see another dyno just to be sure though. isnt there another one coming soon?

JAMESZ

It wasn't a third party technically. The car was dyno'd by the manufacturer, but they used a 3rd parties car.