Aggro_Al

JDUB34,

Just like I said I would, I formally apoligize for calling you a fanboy because you were able to state your opinion without attacking anyone. Thanks for your constructive opinion to the topic. Now lets go get a beer!

Al

JDUB34

sounds good to me

wahoo5

If you really think the AT in your Z is the same as the SMG in an M3, I suggest you go find a dealer that will let you drive the M3. Maybe then you will realize that you have an AT (not that there is anything wrong with that) and the Bimmer has a manual transmission and a real clutch (not a set of valves inside the transmission) that is operated by electro-hydraulic means. It is clear that you won't be convinced until you have seen the difference in person. The SMG does have an automatic mode, but that does not make it an AT.

JonsilvZ

I actually test drove the SMG M3. I used the most aggressive mode when shifting. It definitely feels more like an auto shifting than a clutch manual. When going through the gears. They say it shifts much quicker than a torq converter auto. But I couldnt tell the difference. It also has a mode for auto.

Aggro_Al

wahoo5,

I have driven the SMG and looked at it very closely. The SMG is a very good and capable transmission but the Nissan 5AT has more advanced software and more advanced automatic shifting capabilities while still retaining the manual mode shifting capabilities similar to the SMG. The SMG has slightly faster shifting when Drivelogic is set at it's fastest setting, 80ms shift vs 200ms shift. Just for reference an eyeblink is about 300ms and a professional NASCAR driver can shift in about 0.8 seconds.

I might not be able to convince you that SMG is an automatic but, BMW might be able to. Click on the link in my previous post regarding the SMG. That is literature straight from BMW Corporate Office sent directly to their coporate marketing managers. It has the basic specs, diagrams, descriptions and even history of the SMG transmission. In the document, BMW calls the SMG an automatic transmission. So I feel confident I can also call it an automatic transmission. Maybe you can send an email to BMW and have them un-automate the SMG to a standard manual. The SMG does use the same gearbox as the manual. If they did that it wouldn't be any different than the current manual they use now.

Here's is the definition of an automatic transmission straight from the dictionary.

Please note that the definition doesn't make a distinction between one that uses friction plates (SMG) or one that uses a torque converter (Nissan 5AT). An automatic transmission is simply a transmission that allows automatic selection and engagement which the SMG does. It's possible that you are using a different definition of automatic transmission than what is normally accepted but I'm going to have to ask you what your definition is and how it applies to an automobile.

You mentioned that SMG doesn't use a valve body. Look at the schematics and description of the SMG in the manual I posted and it does use a valve body. Also, you mentioned that the Nissan 5AT doesn't use real clutches, if you click on the link for the automatic transmission primer, you will see that the automatic transmission does use real clutches. If it doesn't have real clutches, please tell us what that mechanical device is in the auto transmission that allows it to change gears and how it works. Again, all multi-gear transmissions use a clutch. Even my two-speed chainsaw has a clutch. The clutch is the device that allows two or more different shafts to rotate at different speeds or at the same speed. You also mentioned that the automatic transmission doesn't use electro-hydraulic controls. Standard automatic transmissions started using them in the 60's, they became widespread in the 70's and by the 80's every automatic transmission was an ECT. The first mainstream F1 type shifter on the market was the BMW SMG1 in the late 90's, much later than the ECT torque converter transmissions. The electronic controls they use in the Tiptronic type transmissions are the same type of electronic controls they use in the F1 type transmissions.

I realize that the F1 and the Tiptronic transmissions are slightly different. One uses friction plates to transfer power and the other uses a torque converter but, the are both sequential automatic transmissions. They both use sequential shifting, they are both electro-hydraulically controlled, they both use the same type of electronics to control shifting, they both use similar software, they both have a manual/auto mode and they both operate basically the same way. If you want to discuss the merits of using friction plates versus a torque converter to transfer power that is a whole seperate thread.

Please click on the links in my previous post. They really are informative. If I'm incorrect, please let me know where I was wrong and we will have both learned something.

capnfrantic

Mainly old men is what you're saying right? That's all I see driving them...

amallari

Go with the manual it not a pain in traffic, I leave a distance and put in 2nd gear. You get used to it. Auto is for people who are lazy, never taught how to drive manual, have knee problems or back problems. Good luck in your decision!

Livn-4-Tdy

For people who are LAZY? It's amazing how this thread has gotten so judgemental. Can't someone just make a comment of what they prefer instead of knocking down other people's preference???

Devrbd

LAZY?

I test drove 5 different Z's, 4 were manual and I chose the auto instead. Just my preference. I'm far from being lazy, have no aches and have driven manuals all my life. From plain cars, sports cars, trucks, tractors, cycles, etc. Standard, on the column, push button, left-handed, etc.

Spend your money on what makes you happy.

Destiny350Z

I have a AT because I can't drive a MT, I can't do it to save my life!! I just don't have the foot cordination!! My mom tried to teach me... I never made it out of the driveway and in the end mom my said: "Just get out the d@mn car!!" But if you have the skills and the traffic isn't too bad go for it!!!! Anyone wanna teach me how to drive a MT?

Alonjar

I plan to get the AT. It gives you the convenience of an automatic, but lets you control what gear you are in like a manual. That way if I feel like having some fun, I will switch to manual mode, and when I'm in traffic or feel like drinking a soda, I'll leave it in auto mode.

It sounds like a fair trade off to me. The only downside in my mind is that its a little bit slower, but whats a tenth or two in real life driving.. the weather would probably make a larger difference. Heck I'll probly just throw a few bolt ons to make up the difference anyhow.

Get what *you* would find most comfortable, don't let peer pressure force you into getting something you really don't want. I fully expect to get some rude or disrespective comments when I get my car with an automatic transmission, and thats unfortunate. *shrug* but I have no interest in being around people who are like that anyhow, so they can just kiss my ***

Aggro_Al

Yes and no. Real car enthusiasts can give their comments without putting down other people. To be a true 6MT Fanboy, you have to boost your ego by putting others down that don't share your mostly incorrect view. It doesn't even matter if you drive an AT or a MT, your scum if you don't subscribe to their opinion.

capnfrantic

Go Aggro! It does get old fast... They actually believe that they are the only ones that know what the he!! is going on! Whatever...

Sensation350Z

Depends. If you are a relatively new driver, i`d say get an auto, that way when you`re ready you can start using the manumatic mode. But until you`re ready, the automatic mode makes it much easier to gain driving experience and getting MT [imo] is just one more thing to worry about.

Take an AT Z, add a few mods like CAI and a dual exhaust maybe, or hey maybe even a twin turbo or supercharger, then challenge one of these MT lovers to a race, that`ll shut them up relatively fast.

JDUB34

your assuming most ppl here prefer MT because its faster... i think your wrong about that... most ppl prefer MT because of the driving experience... i think most of us feel a certain amount of satisfaction and connection to the car when we operate it completely manually(using clutch pedal) and we dont feel that same feeling can be experienced in the same way in an auto (ive driven both auto and MT).

i actually think a AT has the advantage in a race because anyone can just press down on the pedal... that doesnt take any skill... stick my mom in an auto and she could beat most MT drivers... im not trying to say i prefer manual because its faster or anything... if i wanted to consistently beat someone in a race and thats all i cared about, then i wouldve gone with an AT..

i prefer MT because, IMHO, the exhilarating feeling of manually shifting thru the gears (with the use of the clutch pedal) cant be achieved in an AT. driving the Z is a great experience in any transmission but i just prefer the MT when it comes to driving a sports car.. theres just something raw about it and i feel like true sports cars were meant to be driven that way...

Dream

I told a friend of mine I was thinking about getting the 5AT. He immediately told me I was a wuss for thinking about getting an auto sports car. I asked him to tell me, leaving aside the "Sports cars must be manual" and "It's too easy to drive a 5AT" arguments, what was wrong with getting an automatic sports car? He couldn't come up with an answer. I proceeded to tell him the little I know about the manumatic mode, followed by an acknowledgement of the performance hit you take with the 5AT manumatic. He shut the hell up after that.

I think that at least some of the rabid 6MT fanboys out there are like my friend. They're just mindlessly repeating stuff they've heard. The only objective reasons I can see for buying the 6MT are:

1. 6 gears instead of 5. I'm not sure how much of a difference this makes, as I own a 4AT Civic and have never driven a MT car.

2. The small performance edge MT cars have over ATs due to the underlying architecture. This may or may not be vital, depending on your use of the car. For further discussion of this, see Al's posts.

All other reasons I can think of are completely subjective, rendering argument pointless. These include "It feels better to have an MT", "MT requires more driving skill", "Sports cars must be manual", "Women/Old people drive ATs" and their variants.

JDUB34

thats definitely a fact... how much more skill it takes is debatable... but MT does require a certain amount of more skill to operate than an AT.

Faluzure

I TOTALLY agree with your statements here. It's just that feeling you get being able to control your car. I can see how you get that "connected" feeling to your car. Kinda like the statement that sex is a lot better when you're in love. Not to say AT drivers can't feel connected either, but it's just... different. Being able to dictate how your car will drive.

As for the MT vs AT debate, I think it used to be the case where MT cars would pull slightly faster than their AT counterparts. However I think that AT cars have come a long way over the past decade and the differences are negligible now. The auto Z is just as impressive as an MT Z in the hands of the best driver.

Nevertheless, an MT takes a lot more work and I respect those drivers who actually took their time to try to drive an MT proficiently. That is why I said in my past statement that I find females who drive MT cars to have much more appeal. Typically, girls don't drive MTs but the ones who do earn much more respect.

Regardless... I don't really care if another person drives an auto or an MT. If you have a Z, you have a Z. Just meeting someone else who has a Z is gratifying enough. After all, we Z owners gotta stick together right? I mean why else are many of us driving hundreds of miles from across the country just to go to ZDayZ. We're a big family & we have that bond.

Aggro_Al

JDUB34 is right. If you like or need the experience of manually shifting then the MT is definitely for you. MT or AT is subjective to the driver. Just go out and test drive both and choose which you like better.

Dream, just so you know, the 6MT Z has 6 gears because the more gears you have the easier it is to keep the engine in its optimum performance range. The 5AT Z doesn't need as many gears because 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears have variable torque which makes the extra gear unnecessary. The 5AT has better torque management and can adjust for torque.

Here's the link.

Torque Multiplication and Coupling

Sensation350Z

the mistake I probably made was I was speaking in generalities. any and every time I hear of a 350Z losing a race everyone says it must have been an auto.