UPDATE on alignment/scalloping issues.
11-25-2002, 12:49 PM
#41
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Let me get this straight: Since this is a sports car, it is perfectly
acceptible for the tires to wear unevenly. And if they do, it's
probably just because you are driving too much like an ordinary
person, and not like speed racer.
No offense, but you guys are making excuses for what appears
to be a serious defect. This is a car designed for driving on public
roads, not for racing on a track.
By the way, I drive like a freakin' maniac in my MR2, but the tires
are wearing relatively evenly. I just had to replace them at 26K.
I humbly suggest that the discussion about various mods that
could correct this defect be directed to the technical section so
that we can focus this thread on exchanging more ideas on what
is causing the problem and how we can hold Nissan accountable.
I am not buying this car so that I can tinker with it in my garage,
and I am not willing to buy new tires every 5000 miles.
acceptible for the tires to wear unevenly. And if they do, it's
probably just because you are driving too much like an ordinary
person, and not like speed racer.
No offense, but you guys are making excuses for what appears
to be a serious defect. This is a car designed for driving on public
roads, not for racing on a track.
By the way, I drive like a freakin' maniac in my MR2, but the tires
are wearing relatively evenly. I just had to replace them at 26K.
I humbly suggest that the discussion about various mods that
could correct this defect be directed to the technical section so
that we can focus this thread on exchanging more ideas on what
is causing the problem and how we can hold Nissan accountable.
I am not buying this car so that I can tinker with it in my garage,
and I am not willing to buy new tires every 5000 miles.
11-25-2002, 01:04 PM
#42
Ditto that.
From what I've gathered so far, it's looking more like a tire issue than anything. I know Skidazzle has S-03s with >4000mi. and no abnormal wear; others have had their alignment checked to find out there is nothing wrong with it. Lets put the pieces together and get this figured out. If this is serious enough to make people reconsider getting the car, then it should be the duty of those of you out there who do have their cars with enough miles to show this problem and get something done about it. I'd really like to hear more from people who have other tires to see if they are experiencing any of these problems.
From what I've gathered so far, it's looking more like a tire issue than anything. I know Skidazzle has S-03s with >4000mi. and no abnormal wear; others have had their alignment checked to find out there is nothing wrong with it. Lets put the pieces together and get this figured out. If this is serious enough to make people reconsider getting the car, then it should be the duty of those of you out there who do have their cars with enough miles to show this problem and get something done about it. I'd really like to hear more from people who have other tires to see if they are experiencing any of these problems.
11-25-2002, 02:14 PM
#44
Do not get hysterical out there!
Originally posted by Want-a-Z
I am not willing to buy new tires every 5000 miles.
I am not willing to buy new tires every 5000 miles.
11-25-2002, 02:41 PM
#45
Re: Do not get hysterical out there!
Originally posted by ChinaClipper
Please re-read posts above. I have noticed increased wear on the inside tread at 4800 miles, but I am NOT going to have to REPLACE the OEM tires at 5000 miles, nor replace a set of tires due to wear every 5000 miles! I said that only time will tell: time to put more miles on these tires and observe the wear pattern and note the mileage. If pressed at this time with 4800 miles on the odometer, I would say that without adjustment or other changes to the car, my tires will go to 15000 miles before the indicator bars show, but lets wait and see, okay?
Please re-read posts above. I have noticed increased wear on the inside tread at 4800 miles, but I am NOT going to have to REPLACE the OEM tires at 5000 miles, nor replace a set of tires due to wear every 5000 miles! I said that only time will tell: time to put more miles on these tires and observe the wear pattern and note the mileage. If pressed at this time with 4800 miles on the odometer, I would say that without adjustment or other changes to the car, my tires will go to 15000 miles before the indicator bars show, but lets wait and see, okay?
For those of us who are waiting on their cars to be delivered: I know we are all obsessed with the prospect of getting this awesome car, lose productivity at work just thinking about it and spend way too much time browsing this site to get our fix. With the lull between the pre-order frenzy and the onset of all the aftermarket goodies, things have gotten a little slow, and it's easy to blow something that may not turn out to be a devastating defect way out of proportion and get sucked up in it. We see and read about way more nitpicky little things and potential faults on this site than all the good stuff about the car. I suspect the reason for this is that the vast majority of folks who are 100% happy with their cars are too busy driving them and having fun instead of writing about it to keep us satisfied. If you like the car, which I know you do, or you wouldn't have ordered it in the first place, BUY IT. Deal with any individual issues you may come accross and don't get sucked into problem threads like this (I'm telling myself this more than anyone). All new cars are bound to have a few glitches, and if they are legitamate, nissan will figure it out and fix them. They didn't spend all the time they did preparing for the return of the Z just to let us down.
11-25-2002, 03:43 PM
#46
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I do have increased wear on the inside, to the point now where the car has a slight shimmy. I have 5600 miles on the car, and while I could probably get another 5000 miles out of the fronts without hitting the wear bars, the thought of doing it with the front end shaking is not very appealing. It is also getting much worse very quickly. The tires are now loud enough to make the Bose turn up.
I'll say honestly, I don't believe it is the tires. It would take a very strange defect, I would think, to make them wear this way.
Either way, I will find out tomorrow. I hope Nissan and the dealer do their best to remedy this, because I am not prepared to accept this as MY problem.
p.s. I agree with Want-A-Z, could we leave aftermarket fixes elsewhere so that this thread can focus on helping those who don't want to go the aftermarket to correct manufacturer's mistakes.
I'll say honestly, I don't believe it is the tires. It would take a very strange defect, I would think, to make them wear this way.
Either way, I will find out tomorrow. I hope Nissan and the dealer do their best to remedy this, because I am not prepared to accept this as MY problem.
p.s. I agree with Want-A-Z, could we leave aftermarket fixes elsewhere so that this thread can focus on helping those who don't want to go the aftermarket to correct manufacturer's mistakes.
11-25-2002, 05:13 PM
#47
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Boomer Says
ChinaClipper,
As per Boomer's request I have copied his post in this thread.
Enjoy....
Boomer
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mr B
If you raise tire pressure, you'll have a little better tread wear over time, but you sacrifice a softer ride. The more air you put in a tire, the more "responsive" it's going to be on bumps. Also, as far as different tires go, you won't see too much change from one tire manufacturer to another when it comes to performance tires as far as ride comfort. The bumpy ride you guys are complaining about is because your car has a sporty suspension with 18" wheels and low profile tires. There's a price to pay for looking good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have an alternate view of your analysis. The lower the pressure in your tires, the more you ride on the sidewall with a stiff suspension. In an earlier post, I asked abut low vs. high tire pressure contributing to a "bouncier" ride. I was running 32psi cold and had a lot of bounce in my ride over certain surfaces. Others were saying, its just a stiff suspension, they are all like that. I didn't agree but thanked them for their comments. I increased the cold pressure of the tires to 34-5 and the bouncing was noticeably lessened, but not eliminated.
I am no expert on suspensions and tires, but I've owned a lot of sports(y) cars with very stiff springs and shocks that did not ride like this car on city or highway. Granted, I only have slightly over 1000 miles on my car, so I am not experiencing a lot of the problems others are yet.? I just got home from a 40 mile trip on I35 south of the OKC Metro area; the highway had just been resurfaced and I was experiencing a lot of bounce at 70-80mph on a new surface, so I varied my speed a lot, from 65-90, 80-100 70-100 and several other speed ranges. The worst bounce was from 60-80mph on the new surface with 35 psi in my tires, Bridgestone's max cold recommendation. I don't have any pull, drift or any bad behavior at all. I am confused and exasperated with the ride characteristics of this suspension and tire combination.
The last variable mentioned is a "short" wheelbase. This is not a short wheelbase car. A short wheelbase sports car is a 300ZX with 96"(close?) wheelbase or a 91 MR2T with a wheelbase of 94.5"?, memory fails. A long wheelbase is a 300ZX2+2 with 101", all Mustangs with 101", all F-Bodies with 101", etc.
The short wheelbase on the 350Z is 104.3", about 2"s less than my wife's 1999 Nissan Maxima SE! I do not believe the car's suspension is to blame, nor the wheelbase is too short. I believe the tire choice is the flaw in the equation and Nissan should ship them back to Bridgestone, like they did with the Bose's defective amp, and put on Michelins like China Clipper said were on the cars as designed.
I'll take Pilot Sport A/Ss like the Tire Rack lists as replacements for my Touring 5AT and I bet the bounce goes away.
Boomer--my advice, use it or lose it, I don't care.
As per Boomer's request I have copied his post in this thread.
Enjoy....
Boomer
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mr B
If you raise tire pressure, you'll have a little better tread wear over time, but you sacrifice a softer ride. The more air you put in a tire, the more "responsive" it's going to be on bumps. Also, as far as different tires go, you won't see too much change from one tire manufacturer to another when it comes to performance tires as far as ride comfort. The bumpy ride you guys are complaining about is because your car has a sporty suspension with 18" wheels and low profile tires. There's a price to pay for looking good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have an alternate view of your analysis. The lower the pressure in your tires, the more you ride on the sidewall with a stiff suspension. In an earlier post, I asked abut low vs. high tire pressure contributing to a "bouncier" ride. I was running 32psi cold and had a lot of bounce in my ride over certain surfaces. Others were saying, its just a stiff suspension, they are all like that. I didn't agree but thanked them for their comments. I increased the cold pressure of the tires to 34-5 and the bouncing was noticeably lessened, but not eliminated.
I am no expert on suspensions and tires, but I've owned a lot of sports(y) cars with very stiff springs and shocks that did not ride like this car on city or highway. Granted, I only have slightly over 1000 miles on my car, so I am not experiencing a lot of the problems others are yet.? I just got home from a 40 mile trip on I35 south of the OKC Metro area; the highway had just been resurfaced and I was experiencing a lot of bounce at 70-80mph on a new surface, so I varied my speed a lot, from 65-90, 80-100 70-100 and several other speed ranges. The worst bounce was from 60-80mph on the new surface with 35 psi in my tires, Bridgestone's max cold recommendation. I don't have any pull, drift or any bad behavior at all. I am confused and exasperated with the ride characteristics of this suspension and tire combination.
The last variable mentioned is a "short" wheelbase. This is not a short wheelbase car. A short wheelbase sports car is a 300ZX with 96"(close?) wheelbase or a 91 MR2T with a wheelbase of 94.5"?, memory fails. A long wheelbase is a 300ZX2+2 with 101", all Mustangs with 101", all F-Bodies with 101", etc.
The short wheelbase on the 350Z is 104.3", about 2"s less than my wife's 1999 Nissan Maxima SE! I do not believe the car's suspension is to blame, nor the wheelbase is too short. I believe the tire choice is the flaw in the equation and Nissan should ship them back to Bridgestone, like they did with the Bose's defective amp, and put on Michelins like China Clipper said were on the cars as designed.
I'll take Pilot Sport A/Ss like the Tire Rack lists as replacements for my Touring 5AT and I bet the bounce goes away.
Boomer--my advice, use it or lose it, I don't care.
Last edited by RainmanZ; 11-25-2002 at 05:21 PM.
11-27-2002, 12:02 AM
#48
Registered User
4700 miles and no scalloping/cuping yet.
The Z has significant negative camber on the rear wheels, but very little on the front (at least compared to the back).
People, what kind of driving do you do? My driving is mainly highway and twisty mountain roads, along with the occasional AutoX. Whenever I'm on the twisties, I'm usually cornering quite hard (trying to wear the outside of the rear tires). So far everything is very smooth and the road noise is only as loud as it was when I first bought the car.
Did any of you ever have any steering wheel or high speed shimmies before you noticed the tires going bad?
I doubt this problem is on all Z's, or I think I would have noticed by now, so I'm guessing that it might have something to do with the tire mounting or alignment since that would seem to be more variable than a design flaw, which would be inherent in all cars. Perhaps hard cornering helps even the tire wear, and that's why raceboy and myself don't see a problem yet. Who knows? At this point there is very little data to go on and pretty much everything is speculation.
Perhaps a poll is in order to see how many people actually have this problem. I counted about 5 from the messages in the thread, but does this problem really exist for everyone else?
Anyhow, good luck and for those of you who don't have the problem yet, try not to panic until there is actually something to panic about.
I'll post again after thankgiving and see if anything has changed on my car.
-D'oh!
The Z has significant negative camber on the rear wheels, but very little on the front (at least compared to the back).
People, what kind of driving do you do? My driving is mainly highway and twisty mountain roads, along with the occasional AutoX. Whenever I'm on the twisties, I'm usually cornering quite hard (trying to wear the outside of the rear tires
). So far everything is very smooth and the road noise is only as loud as it was when I first bought the car. Did any of you ever have any steering wheel or high speed shimmies before you noticed the tires going bad?
I doubt this problem is on all Z's, or I think I would have noticed by now, so I'm guessing that it might have something to do with the tire mounting or alignment since that would seem to be more variable than a design flaw, which would be inherent in all cars. Perhaps hard cornering helps even the tire wear, and that's why raceboy and myself don't see a problem yet. Who knows? At this point there is very little data to go on and pretty much everything is speculation.
Perhaps a poll is in order to see how many people actually have this problem. I counted about 5 from the messages in the thread, but does this problem really exist for everyone else?
Anyhow, good luck and for those of you who don't have the problem yet, try not to panic until there is actually something to panic about.
I'll post again after thankgiving and see if anything has changed on my car.
-D'oh!
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