Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

Just to refresh Tk and C's memory banks... And by the way, it's my advice to the guy and I'm sticking to it.

I bought a base for $26,400, stuck $1400 into the motor and $3500 for wheels/tires 245/295, which make up for no VLSD. Don't get mad at me because I spent my money and have the same HP and more TQ than the 300hp motor.... jeez. And thank you for the theoretical analysis professor on what the 300hp motor could potential do.

If I want a better motor, I'll by the parts with my spare change
Pauter Billet Rods (Set of 6) VQ35DE__$1200
ARIAS VQ35DE Turbo/Nitrous Piston Set__$800

Zquicksilver

cnynracer1

I don't think anyone is going to get through to you on what's going on here. Yes, you win Zquicksilver, you win.

I should have gone with the base motor, then spent the extra $4,400 on Forced Induction so I could surpass the 300hp mark. Then I could "smoke" these stupid Rev Up motors at any contest of speed. Stupid me. I shouldn't care about things like ultimate potential, valve-train geometry, or newer technology built into the Rev Up drivetrains. Next time I'll "think" before I write to you.

Camel

Not everyone wants to mod a car. I wouldn't have bought a base if it were 1/2 the price of my 35th. *shrug* Zquicksilver, if you really want to compare apples to apples in your $10,000 cost argument, you have to add all the additional parts the 35th has on top of your "calculations" for building your superior automobile: big brake kit, aero parts, leather, VDC... I'm guessing you'll say you don't want that stuff. Well, in order for your scenario to have any validity in a real world sense, it's still a factor to build a car thats the same or better.

woj666

Just for the fun of it, I'll try to compare.
Base $26,800 vs 35th $36,200

I'm guessing at the cost of all this stuff, as I really have no idea.

Base $26,800
+ leather $1000
+ wheels $3000 (assuming 35th's wheels will be rare)
+ vlsd $1000
+ brembos $2000
+ engine upgrades $1000
+ aero parts $500
+ TCS and VDC $1000 ??
+ lots of labour and waiting while all this crap gets added to your car ??
+ reduced depreciation for 35th and rarity - maybe a couple thousand
+ knowing you have the top of the line priceless

35th looks like an ok deal to me.

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

Thank you, but I can't take credit, I have to give that to the AD agency within Nissan

And once again, I don't think you understand that I do get it, but just wouldn't pay for it. I'm all for advancing technology and improving things. I'm an Industrial Designer and that's my job. They tweaked it, but just not enough IMO to justify the cost. Give them time I quess...

And my view on FI... I would take the risk with my measly stock VQ motor, dated technology and parts, and strap a SC or ST to it. All while running a dependable 350-375whp and 350-400lbs.tq. Many Z owners are doing just fine out there with this setup. Just breeze through the FI section.

Ok, I'm done... I already feel bad for posting what I have.

Zquicksilver

Andy@Performance

iTrader: (92)

Have you got your car dynoed?

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

Camel,

I understand your point of view, the 35th is a great car out of the box. I just chose to build my own box. I like all the Zs, but just wanted mine to be different. I'm a designer and car enthusiast, so its only natural that I took this approach. I even argued a little with the sales men when I bought my Z, because I didn't want all the extras or Nissan's best. Now when I bring my Z in for oil changes heads turn and questions are asked. Nice Z, nice freakin wheels, nice overall sound, damn that seems to pull harder than our fastest stock Z. I love when I hear these kinds of things from the dealers who originally sold me my Base Z.

Zquicksilver

TK2005

You're a freakin idiot savante over here. You have mastered the art of arguing. You just constantly ignore what we're saying post after post and just repeat yourself. It's like arguing with a 5 year old. I won't give you the satisfaction. I'll just join your argument where cost is the only determining factor of the argument. I can buy a 92 Civic for $1500 and a GSR changeover for $3500. We can build the motor and strap a turbo kit to it for under $8K. For only $13K (half the price of your car) I can smoke you and still have change left over to buy some pretty wheels. Just reread the thread and ignore this post.

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

Yes I dynoed my car at GRD. These things can very greatly... FWIW. No ECU changes and stock exhaust.

248whp @ 6500
244lb.ft. @ 4000rpm

Factor in 17% loss and you get 299hp and 294tq

Zquicksilver

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

Hey TK you need to take a TO and put your reading glasses on...I am responding to your post and others.

I'm so sorry I spend my money the way I do. I'm so sorry we disagree Do you live on this planet or somewhere else...? Money is the determining factor of everything, you should know that by now. Even a five year old knows that... mmwhhahaha!

Zquicksilver

TK2005

OMG, how is that possible? You absolutely refuse to join the rest of us in our discussion, don't you? Oh well, some people can't be helped. Help me, help you. Help me, help you.

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

TK, are you ok...? I think you may be a little mentally unstable. I've read thru this entire thread a while back, gave my opinion and made my responses to others. As if I'm the only one in this thread that thinks this way, pls check first page of thread for others opionions.

Have I driven in a 300hp and 287hp Z back to back, no, but my dealer has and gave me his opinion on my Z. Mine was a little faster, obviously. Maybe there's something wrong with my computer and I'm seeing a different 3 pages of thread than you are. MMmmmmm... That's what I thought, I don't think so!

At this point I have better things to do... I really don't care for your useless wealth of knowledge on cars or economics, so please go help someone else.

Zquicksilver

TK2005

No, I am not ok. Something must be wrong with me to have continued this conversation with you. I am really going to go seek help for this.

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

eat my dust,

I appologize for the thread diversion... you can thank Leroy Jekins for helping it along in his post #22. I can't say I helped either, because of my response to him and Cnyn in post #25, but I did try to help you with my opinion, which was build your own performer and save some cash.

If you want a performer out of the box go buy the 35th ann..

TK... don't seek help, it won't do you any good and it's $$$. Go have a good STEAK or something Just my advice, which I know you won't take anyway...ha,ha,ha,ha!
It was good arguing with you, sorry you got so upset!

Zquicksilver

spacemn_spiff

iTrader: (3)

If you have noticed, Acura/Honda engine Vtech 3.5 V6 in the new RL is tuned to the same spec, 300Hp and 260 lbft torque. But the compression ratio is higher is the RL at 11.0 compared to Z at 10.3. So something tells me this tuning on the Z is good if you believe that Honda tries to tune their smaller engines very well, I mean for max output.

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Nice !

Your engine PEAKS almost as high as mine, but still stalls at 6200rpm...

Ho and behold ! I have a warranty !

Granted, a base Z can be built to surpass a Track or a 35th in some aspect. But not all.

There is no way (no legal way) to beat the price of a 35th while building a Base.

As for your engine, area below the torque curve and drivability is what matters. I have driven a Euro spec Z (full 2003-4 Track trim + leather) at Monza and now drive my 2005 Track on race tracks. The new engine is WAY better for fast driving. It has more torque above 4500 rpm, better response and the 800 extra rpm are very handy...

Zquicksilver

iTrader: (5)

Kolia,

I don't know, I thought all Zs were the same? My Z stalls right at 6600, not 6200. I've driven it at 6500 more than once and held it there out of curiousity, it doesn't cut out.

Yes, I have voided my warranty I'm sure, but the chance of something going wrong with the mods I've installed is slim to none, imo.

And your right, a Base can be built to surpass a Track or 35th, but not by much if any at all, if the equivalent it spent in $$. Plus it won't be 100% legal as far as the cats go.

And your right, if you tried to source all the stuff for the 35th you couldn't do it, plus it wouldn't be badged a 35th obviously. +1 to all the die-hard Z/35th owners who love the plush, meshed with performance.

As for my engine, I'm sure the new one is better, like I said... it should be. Am I happy where I stand spending $1400 on my motor, yes. My Z is a daily driver and ocassional street racer, so I like TQ a little more than top end HP. It does what I ask. If I did what you did, I may have started off with a 05 Track.

Now here's the real question, since I've never personally driven a 05 Track. Based on Andy's dyno overlapping mine (accurately drawn out, I think) do you really use that extra 500rpm to your advantage? I know there will be differences in the type of dyno and differences in mods. It seems as if his TQ drops off at 200lb.ft. @ 6500 and beyond, right where mine seems to cut off too. His HP seems to have a slight edge on me @ 6000-7000. Is this enough to make a true difference, I don't know? I really don't think so. I think it takes a true 100whp and a ton of TQ in the right spot to really start making a difference in performance times. But that's just my opinion





My whole point to responding again... my original advice to the guy was spend roughly $1.5k on a 287hp motor and get close to the same HP output of the 300hp motor while surpassing it in TQ. And I even gave the Track 05 a little breathing room with it's mods.

Zquicksilver
ps have a good weekend

Nano

iTrader: (1)

Main reason why the 287 engine starts to run out of steam above 6000 rpm is the upper plenum design flaw and how crazy rich it runs stock above 5500rpm. I have AAM spacer and a few basic bolts-on and the engine pulls like made until FUEL-CUT.

It pulls so hard up to redline that my instructor at last HPDE event asked me why I was short-shifting... when in reality, I was shifting at 6600rpm redline everytime!! (even hitting rev-limtier often, as engine keeps pulling). There is no hint of hesitation, no change in smoothness, nothing, engine could rev past 6600rpm without a hitch, I have easy another 200-300rpm of power producing RPM after redline.

at dragstrip I trap 105mph-106mph, where stock Z pull 100-101(mine included at the time it was stock). This is all with only BASIC bolt-ons... exhaust, intake, plenum spacer, pulley, hf-cats (2003 ecu from what I have seen, seems to take best to bolt-ons). From my trap speed, I should be above 300hp... my baseline on a dynapack was 239rhwp.

Yes! Those extra 400rpm are a HUGE difference on a track. It's the RPM you use and need most! It doesn't compare. I wish I had just extra 200rpm and I'd be happier...

As for what you feel, the 300hp engine, having same gearing and a lower and flatter torque curve should "feel" slower from standstill. In actual 1/4mile tests the difference is absolutely marginal. Some reviews give the 287hp Z faster... other reviews give the 300hp better 1/4 mile times. so the truth is it's REALLY too close to tell.

Personally MY best Z would be a BASE with the 300hp engine. I can't care less about all that heavyass fake luxo crap, only slows the car down. LSD, I put my own, brakes I put my own. 2006 base should come with 300hp engine... and with proper basic mods, should own the 2005 track for a fraction of the price.

Unfortunately I live in Canada... and in Canada we only get fully loaded luxo versions... leather, bose, side aribags, etc.. etc.. are all mandatory. There is no way to have a proper Z, 2005 track wasn't even imported.

EVL-350

not to say the same thing over again...but i have driven both back to back...you really fell the 300 in the top...my z is on the way it leaves cali on monday...i got a brand new 2006 track edition...only 4 2006 tracks in the country so i feel kind of special haha...but ill let you know if theres any difference

Andy@Performance

iTrader: (92)

I dont know how I was given more breathing room because of mods? We had identical mods and you even had headers and a plenum spacer over me. Well I have added some things to my car as well since that dyno. Ive added stainless steel headers with a Nismo cat back exhaust. Ill also be adding a Crawford upper plenum, where I think, is where this engine should show most improvement. Ive seen dynos on this board as well as from Doug at Crawford himself with 05 Tracks with the plenum alone making 260-262 whp. Damn, I need to get my car dynoed again and then again after I install the plenum. I will keep you guys updated but the bottom line to this thread, yes, you can buy a base and invest the money into it to beat the 300HP Rev Up motor BUT, invest that same amount of money into a Rev Up motor as I have and you will see a lot better gains over the 287HP motor. This is my second Z that I have owned and in my honest opinion, the Rev Up motor feels a lot more refined than the 287HP. This is just my opinion.