I've been running lots of canyons lately and I've noticed that the tires screech pretty loud. At first, I didn't think much of it and am actually pushing a bit harder each time I go out.

However, the last time I did a run, I followed a buddy in his boxster. He wasn't that much faster than me, but his tires were quiet while mine were screeching like crazy. He was actually a bit worried about me as he said that when the tires scream and are that audible, then I'm on the verge of loosing traction and the car would just snap on me.

While I value the guy's opinion, I think the car feels pretty stable and could actually be a bit faster on most of those turns. Though the tires squeal, the back end doesn't come out at all.

I have 2005 base 350. No traction control or LSD, along with 17" potenza RE040s. I just read a bunch of complaints about these tires on tirerack, but I actually think they're decent. Though I think the grip on the tires is decent, the screeching may be due to just the tires.

Any thoughts

 

Another thing, does the limit of the Z come on rather gradual to where you could control it, or does it come on rather suddenly and all of a sudden just snap?

 

1 sure way to know your maxing your tires out when turning is when your front tires don't grip and your starting to go straight and not turning as much. Then you need to let off the gas pedal. Also, when cornering hard don't ever punch the gas pedal bcuz that back end will let lose and it's not too forgiving unless you know how to drift. When turning hard make sure your in a gear where it doesn't pull to hard and your still able to get on the pedal gradually in the turn perferably no more than 4k. Due to the fact your torque is almost at it's full peak and that's assuming your taking like highway on ramp or off ramp turns. Try doing some autocrosses it will help you with how the Z handles. Another way the back end breaks loose which I learn from auto X's was. When braking and turning to do a Zig Zag around cones, with down shifting. Don't pop the clutch when down gearing and turning. Your back end will break loose, gurantee. Don't go and totally your Z now by acting foolish.

 

squealing tires mean you have lost traction, that is where the squeal comes from, from the tires moving at a different speed than the road, causing squeal.

 

Do you have LSD? If not, that could cause one wheel to slip when you power the rear end.

 

You REALLY need to find an HPDE in your area to attend. What you are hearing is your tires working very hard... some tires do make more noise than others, some a LOT less noise. You very well may have more grip to use, problem is, once they start talking to you, its hard to tell when they're gonna give up and break loose. It won't necessarily snap on you, but that all depends on the circumstance... and a canyon road is most decidedly NOT where you want to find those limits. You really need to do it on a track somewhere with lots of run-off - preferably with someone in the passenger seat telling you what the noises and actions your car is making mean.

Everything depends on everything else... you may be able to gain some grip and lose some screeching with a simple tire pressure adjustment (down) in the fronts. Does the screeching happen as soon as you start pushing it hard through the turns, or does it take some time to start screeching? If so, you are probably simply over-heating the tires over a certain amount of time - conversely, if it starts immediately, they may be too cold... and you may not be doing it long enough for them to reach their optimum temperature... but like I said above... a track or an autocross event is where you need to test these things, not a canyon road where you risk death if you make a mistake or a misjudgement (or worse, if someone ELSE makes a mistake while you're in the wrong place at the wrong time.)

I'm not sure who's doing track events in your area, but there's bound to be someone.

Stacy King
HPDE Coordinator
Triangle Z Club / Tarheel Sports Car Club
North Carolina
www.timetrials.net

 

Did not experience this, but I thought lifting during a turn was bad.

I hear with being gradual on the gas, but lots of these turn are pretty tight 2nd gear stuff. At this point, I'm usually over 4K revs. I'm sometimes in 3rd, but I don't power out how I like. Oh and these are empty canyon roads, so I'm not endangering anyone, except myself....

If you properly rev-match, wouldn't popping the clutch be okay.

 

Thanks for the advice. I would really enjoy going to a track, and plan to do so in the near future. Just need to invest in a helmet, any recommendations that are not to pricey.

The tires normally squeal right when I start pushing them hard. I'm not that sure whether they are overheated or not hot enough though. From my house, I have about a 20 min drive to the canyons then some 20 min of long fast sweepers before the tight stuff. The tires squeal slightly in the sweepers, as I don't push it that hard, but squeal much louder in the tighter turns where I feel more comfortable, possibly because of the lower speed. In this instance the tires could very well be overheated, but in another instance, I parked for well over a hour before the tight stuff and the tires squealed just the same.

I do feel the squealing is in large part due to the type of tires, but in any case, next time I go to the canyons I'll tone it down a bit just to be on the safe side. I still want to have fun in the canyons, but no need in pushing it to where I might go over a cliff.

 

The first day I got my falkens on the rear wheel, I squealed. I don't ususally squeal when I have the TSC on, but I always have it off. So when I put it down, it squeals off. when I am turning, and just add medium throttle, it squeals. I love it

I know Squealing doesn't mean you are fast, but just saying that my new tires squealed right away, so it just depends if your tire is spinning so fast with not enough wieght over it to keep it down.

 

As street tires reach maximum grip, they will start to "whistle" at you (a very pure sound, almost like a flute). It is a very distinctive sound.

On the other hand, if your tires are screaming at you, there's a reason -- they are over the limit and you're sliding the tires.

 

Tire squeal is something that is engineered into tire design.

Listen to it, the pitch and sound level will change as the tire works. It's linked to the tire temperature in part and in the slip angle of the tire for an other. It increase it's pitch level with the increase in slip angle. When you go overboard, the tone goes down an octave and does not change until you regain grip.

Street tires squeal sooner so that "regular" people get the idea that they're overdoing it. They usually still have plenty of grip left. Use it !

 

If you properly rev-match, wouldn't popping the clutch be okay.[/QUOTE]

I'm not too sure with rev-matching but in autocrosses, you don't have time to rev-match. Your zig zagging left and right, gunning it on the straights, breaking harder before the turns in trying to run the best time on the track. Your feet and hands are seriously occupied. Sometimes I'm turning so much I accidentally cut my windshield wipers on because of the aggressiveness of the course...lol Try out an autocross it's fun, you won't regret it and find out for yourself.

 

A driving class with SCCA or NASA is highly recommended. Your friend in the Boxster isn't pushing his car as hard as you're pushing your Z. If you're tailing someone in the mountains, just let them pull away from you if you feel your tires break loose or the screech noise. You're putting unnecessary wear and tear on your tires which will cause them to wear prematurely. Then, later on you can upgrade your suspension/brakes/engine so you can hang with your friend on the same set of tires.

Depending on the type of road/track, a lighter car like the Mazda Miata or Lotus Elise could easily pull away from other sports cars with much more power simply because of the weight of the cars are so light. Something to keep in mind if you ever tail someone you don't know in the mountains/canyons.

 

this thread is an example of the best this forum has to offer. i'm very impressed with all your knowledgeable answers. thank you all.

 

Yeah, some very good info here.

On another note, I went through the same canyons today, and feel I didn't push as hard or that I was even willing to. After looking into it the last couple of days, I guess in the back of my mind I was scared of loosing control.

The funny thing is, I felt that I had overcome this fear in the last few weeks. It's probably for the best however as I guess I'll be taking it easy in the canyons....at least for now.

 

Holding back for a few runs and just working on your line instead of trying to go fast is a good learning technique. If you had someone time your run, you might realize that driving "easy" is not that much slower than an all out attack.

Do these slow runs from time to time, praticing your line precisely. Do it over and over again. Then, next time you go "all out", you will have learned the line and will naturally follow it. This frees some brain power to manage the tire slip...

 

Do you have VDC on or off ? Also how are you not keeping up with a boxter ?

 

On a road course a boxter will get ate up. If it is a quarter mile the boxter will win, but after the 1/4 the boxter will lose on top end speed.

 

I didn't know a Boxter could drive by it self...

 

You know what I meant dude......lol Porsche Boxster! I just follow someone else typing and didn't realize the spelling tell you said something.