Blue Komodo

Your right on the Z06 weight, I was thinking of the Blue Devil version. It's the one that will be less than 2900lbs with 600bhp, but for much more money. I think Sport Compact Car stripped a Z to bare metal a while back and it weighed about 2900 to 3000lbs. The STI is about 50lbs lighter than a Z coupe. I've had a lot of seat time in the 35th, and find the STI FAR more rigid.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

yeah I really don't know what the enzo weighs then, cause half of the places say it weighs 3254 lbs and the other half say 2767 lbs

weird, something is screwy

Blue Komodo

I think the S2K cost's less than the Roadster. It would'nt be too bad.

spacemn_spiff

iTrader: (3)

But would like the same body style to sell for another 8-10 years?

arejohn

What "chassis" does your STI use. Is it unique? High performance? Race inspired? or is it a street chassis with tight shocks, high rate springs, hard bushing, stiff sway bars that bounce your girl to death. The stock suspension tune for the Z is tuned for daily sport driving in reasonable comfort.

The Jag S, Ford Mustang, Lincoln LS, Thunderbird all share same
"platform." I have driven all but the LS and I can tell you they don't drive anything alike. What you want most from a chassis is light weight and stiffness and I don't think you can't do much better in a street machine than the Z coupe. The quick steering is the result of reduced steering ratio- which I wish the Z had- and not the chassis.

If the STI and EVO are such great cars, why doesn’t anyone buy them?
What did they sell this year...3 maybe 4? Do you think Nissan could have sold 100K Zs without some real good utilization of parts. What Nissan saved on new mechanical parts paid for building one fine looking automobile.

Don't get me wrong, I think the EVO and the like are great drivers but they attract a very small purchasing audience and one that participant of I was not.

Just what does define a platform?

Does an automobile need to have a frame to have a chassis?

What was more important: Henry Ford building a car that people could afford or Henry Ford paying his employees enough to buy the cars they built?

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

The EVO and STI have really stiff suspensions. The shocks, springs, bushings, sway and strut bars etc are just really race inspired.

The chasis is more flexible than the Z's though. It has 4 seats and is generally a more boxy shape. The Z has 2 seats, and has a more oval shape which is better for strength - why bridges utilize circular shapes. They handle stress better.

I totally agree that if you drive an EVO or STI, it'll feel stiffer than the Z. But that doesn't mean the chasis is stiffer

Blue Komodo

That's a damn good point.

mhip

the eth.- 3197 per nissan web site

Blue Komodo

We don't have Eth. here.

Blue Komodo

I wonder if there is a scientific way to check this out. What you say about the shape has merit, but I believe the Subaru has more re-enforcement points. Most likely because the WRC car is loosely based on it.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

it really doesn't matter

everyone can talk about it, but it's not going to change how the cars drive

they are what they are

the STI will easily out handle the Z - it's designed for hardcore performance. The Z is made for good performance, but with a more softer ride. This can be fixed with some stronger/stiffer suspension parts

either way, the Z or STI can pull of 1 G anyway with suspension mods

Blue Komodo

Stock for stock the Z suspension is actually stiffer than the Subaru's. From a weight and stiffness perspective the Z is good, but should be better. It isn't better due to the platform sharing concept that Nissan Copied from VW to save money. I would be willing to pay a little more money for a Z with a lighter, stronger chassis. There is only one ratio point difference between the Z and STI steering. When I say handling, I mean feed back from the tires through steering coloumn to communicate the road surface and what the tires are doing in addition to the steering. In this regarde the Z is numb and vague. The Suby was much better at this. Yes it appeals to a smaller more performance focoused demographic, and is more narrowly focoused. But that's also why it performs better. The Z gets it's sales numbers based on how it looks more so than how it drives. It was always meant to be a cash cow, it was platform shared to maximize profit, not performance.
And I believe trucks are built on frames. Cars are built on chassis, mostly uni-bodies.

spacemn_spiff

iTrader: (3)

I agree with the application of circular structure, but not the bridges part. If you meant circular shapes used in older stone bridges was used because stones could be loaded purely in compression (no tensile loading at all), this was before the time of concrete. This is much different than the reason for using circular structure in steel bridges now.

Circular shape is a better shape for load path/transfer than a dog leg because the bend part of the dog leg can flex as said before because of stress concentration. EVO and STIs have dog legs and higher roofline.

Sorry, had to rant.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

well point being circular or arch shapes are stronger than square shapes

Amnbex

Do you know how much it would have cost Nissan (and us in turn) to develop a dedicated chassis for the Z? The MR Z chassis is pretty damn good and pretty damn flexible and can be purchased for less than $30k. All the other cars you're comparing it to cost more than $50k. At least compare within the pricerange.

spacemn_spiff

iTrader: (3)

Sentry65, the bridge in the first picture has nothing to do being arch shape, the shape is curved because of cables sag by their own weight just like power cables sag between towers. While the other pictures just explain what I tried to explain (compression loading is the key).

Thanks for the pictures.

Blue Komodo

Since when does an S2000 or an STI cost $50k? Try reading all the post's. Nissan compromised the chassis to make maximum profit, period. They now have several press releases stating that the Z will get it's own dedicated chassis (only because of the GTR) in the next model rendition. They know that 2008 will be the year of the sports car, with the return of the Supra etc., and this crap platformed shared cash cow chassis ain't 'gonna cut it.

03redlineZ

iTrader: (59)

I have Volk wheels and no spare tire and my Z weighed in at 3,060 pounds thats light for a Z!!! So maybe stock they are a little heavy but not compared to the mustang or old 300ZX there light. A supra weighs 400 pounds more than our car but yet that is a pretty well desired car!!

ANyway if your so concerned with weight than do something aboout it. My car is an enthusiest and like I said it weighs a hair over 3,000 pounds.........

Blue Komodo

If what you say is accurate, yes that would be a light Z. Maybe you can post the print out from the scale for verification. I'm skeptical only because as I said, a Z stripped to bare metal is 2900 to 3000lbs (I'll find this article). I think Fosberg's car stripped (fender liners and everything else possible) with the SR20 weighs something like 2700 to 2800lbs. Again, our base model is the Performance which weighs 3401lbs. The Supra is desired because it has a straight 6 with an iron block that can handle uber power. Not because it's twinkle toed. No one wants a stripped car for the street, at least I don't. If I did'nt have to store the Z half of the year, I'd bite the bullet and shell out for the new Z06. Or import an Elise. As stated before, the Z's weight problem is a result of the platform shared chassis. Which would be hard to do something about. The Z is very good car with a great motor, and a decent suspension. That's why I bought it. It just needs a better chassis, which is coming.

03redlineZ

iTrader: (59)

Next time i am at the track i will take a pic for you. Anyway the enthusiest Z says it weighs around 3200 pounds. I weighed the stock 17s and with tire they weigh 53 pounds the volk wheels with tires weighed 40 pounds. That is a 60 pound weight reduction. To put it at 3140ish pounds. THan no spare tire and tool and mats taken out that is around 60-70 pounds that brings it to 3,060 pounds give or take. You can believe me or not but the scale cant lie. I was shocked when i saw it myself.