paulsmansfield

I commute in heavy traffic everyday, I would never let that dictate what car I drive, I don't get that if you commute you need to have an automatic, to me that is a MASSIVE compromise and never worth the sacrifice over a manual.

myzhi

Love MT, but couldn't stand it in NYC. 4 hrs each day mostly in 1st gear was too painful on legs. Once things change, I'll get another MT and give AT to Mrs.

RBlover69

iTrader: (2)

i dunno, why people complain aobut manuals in traffic, ..in nyc most of the time im on a decline. and nutral and the break are my best friends almost feels like a auto.

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

Wow another Dr. Phil wannabe.....You 5at guys are just toooo easy All your whinny little comebacks with sprinkles of psycho-babble wont change the obvious truth....Tell yourselves anything you want to but the bottom line is you go to any autocross, cuircuit track etc and you will see 95% of the cars there are Manual transmissions....Hmmmm wonder why those serious and distinguished ladies/gentleman choose the manual version? Whats the transmission of choise in the winning car????......I guess the 5at Mafia will have to start a campaign against these foolish MT drivers since they dont know that AT is just as good or better on a track I wonder why Helmut Feyal[?] of Renntech offers a manual conversion an his souped up Benz's for the "serious driver"?...I can go on and on but you guys have your heads in the sand...

BTW beating me in your 5at and me in my manual doesnt change anything...It just proves you are better at brainless driving than I am at actually "driving" my car....

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

You are a funny guy.....I can sell you some swamp land in Florida if you want...Dont worry that it looks just like swamp land the brochure said its prime real estate ready for building....

You hit the nail on the head when you said MARKETING.....The fact that this technology came from F1 and is an evolotion of the MANUAL shifter doesnt mean anything to you???It uses the same parts as a manual gearbox and has nothing in common with an AT gearbox but you see it as a AT because its marketed that way...lol......

buho62

I agree, sell him the swamp land but not in florida, sell him the luisiana one(the brochure says is "florida").

I guess SMG is the new way of "marketing" an AT!! .....I mean W O W!!!!! That guy must be one of BMW's senior engineers that know every thing about transmissions!

Next time I go to a BMW dealer, I'm gonna ask for one of the cars with AT that have SMG. (for sure I'll get slapped)

Aggro_Al

Show me an official BMW marketing or techinical literature that calls the SMG a manual transmission.

I did my part and attempted to present the evidence, where is yours?

How about using the link I posted and show us what parts of the manual that BMW got wrong. I'm sure BMW would appreciate your input and corrections regarding the technical and marketing aspects of the SMG. Somebody has to put BMW in their place! How dare they lie and mislead us??!! I sense a large class action suit coming BMWs way and the news is going to be broken first right here on My350Z.com

I have nothing against manual transmissions and I'm glad you enjoy yours. But, if you are going to be stringient on the facts at least let us point out what the facts are. You claimed that the SMG is a manual transmission which is not true. BMW, the company that developed the SMG, doesn't call it a manual transmission. Look at my previous quote that is straight from BMW, not me.

Aggro_Al

Go back and read the link I posted. It's from BMW. It's not from me and I never claimed to be affiliated with BMW in any way. If you forgot or don't know, BMW invented and developed the SMG transmission. BMW calls the SMG an automatic transmission and so will I. If BMW changes their minds and calls it a standard manual transmission then I will call it a standard manual transmission also.

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

You just gotta love blind acceptance.....You got it buddy its an automatic ...You ever heard of the phrase: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a freakin duck???You keep missing the marketing aspect eventhough you state it in your posts....How many front drive cars are marketed as sports cars ie the new Eclipse, Couger etc...Does that then mean they are really sportscars???No...The public just has to believe that and usually do....Different markets have different marketing stratagies....You should get a clue from your own post about how BMW markets the SMG as an automatic in certain parts of the world and an MT[sequential MANUAL transmission] in other parts.....Why is it that every other manufacturer that has a similar tranny refers to it as an evolution of MT tranny???

Read this entire article..And if you still insist in buying BMW marketing then myself and Buho62 will have that Land in Louisiana er I mean Florida drawn up for you to purchase : http://www.motortrend.com/features/112_0208_trans03/

Swiffer

iTrader: (8)

I'll prove both of you wrong:
http://www.toodarkpark.org/misc/cars/m3/smg/
http://www.bmwworld.com/models/config/m3_smg.htm

Aggro_Al

Thanks camaro194,

Finally, someone who actually backs up something they say.

Camaro194 I agree with you and the links you posted. Yes, the SMG uses the same exact gearbox as the manual version but it automates the whole process. One link describes the SMG as not a regular manual or a regular automatic but a mix of the two. The other link says the SMG provides the convience of an automatic transmission with lightning fast gear shifts. I took a direct quote from BMW and posted it earlier. BMW calls the SMG an "all-automatic manual gearbox".

---------------

SnakeBitten,

You now have three links you can dissect. One direct from BMW (my previous post) and two from BMW experts (posted by camaro194). Instead of telling us that the information is "marketing snake oil" or "technological hype" how about using these links and point out specific things that are wrong and give us the correct information. I still haven't seen them call the SMG a manual transmission but, as you mentioned before, it's all hype. You may be right but we'll need your help in understanding where the information is true and what is hype. Please help us know which information we should disregard and why.

BTW the link you posted from Motor Trend doesn't call the SMG a manual transmission. They called it an "electrohydraulically managed six-speed manual". In other words, it's a six-speed gearbox that is automated by electronic controls like the ones described in the links posted by camaro194 and myself earlier. If you bothered to read further, the article goes on to describe the automatic functions of the SMG.

Racer Z

The Brits think that all Americans want a giant sofa as a car and be able to talk on the cell, shove a Big Mac down their throats, or jerk off while still driving...hence the reason (in their opinion) WHY automatics are so prevalent in the US today.

However, with winter fast approaching, I'm glad my 6 speed manual Z will be hibernating, while my automatic Grand Prix gets me through the snow, ice, and slush...Winter driving is enough work as it is....lol

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

Can you really be this thick????What do you think this is saying: "electrohydraulically managed six-speed manual". You can argue semantics all you want to try to prove your point but its useless....Both those sites are BMW sites...Heres even a paragraph from the second link your boy posted that proves what has been already said....Put on your spectacles now: "Under the console there's a six-speed manual gearbox, but rather than the conventional H pattern, the SMG gearstick moves backwards for shifting up and forwards for shifting down. It's like a video game joystick!"

Ill give you one more link to read...It has info on most of the evolved manual tranmissions out there including the SMG from BMW...Notice they are all 6 speed manual transmissions at the core and not automatic transmissions...Please stop trying to win an argument and actually read and understand this link... http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...ear_manual.htm

If you can read all that and still hold your view then

Aggro_Al

I never said that the SMG didn't use the same gearbox as the the regular standard transmission. The current version of the SMG does use the Getrag six-speed gearbox. So, the quote you highlighted is correct but you took it out of context if you read further on it tells how it has automated electronic controls.

The link you posted is sort of dated because some of those transmissions are no longer in production and what what they called clutchless manuals and described as electronically controlled now have automatic functions. Judging by the references they use those transmission are several years old. They even updated their information slightly further down by calling the new versions automated manual gearboxes which is a better description of what they are. In the SMG section they called it a semi-automatic not a standard manual transmission.

Toyota's SMT I guess can sort of be called a clutchless manual because it has no automatic mode.

BTW SnakeBitten thanks for toning down the name calling. It lends more credence to your position and allows us to discuss with you. Keep it up.

Swiffer

iTrader: (8)

I would consider the SMG to be more of an automatic transmission than a manual. Sure, the SMG doesnt have a torque convertor, which differentiates it from a normal automatic. But the main difference is: no clutch. That, to me, is the biggest difference. Therefore, I would classify it under being more of an automatic transmission.

The SMG is a step-up from the normal tiptronic shifting mode. It has a mode where you can select your gears by a paddle (not by a shifter and clutch), and it allows a fully automatic mode as well.

Darthvol

I don't think you read my earlier post: I've owned, and tracked, MTs in the past and have put probably about twice the amount of miles on MTs over the years than I have ATs. And you also didn't address the flip side of my proposition--how about if I drive to a race with you in my AT, get out of my brainless car, borrow someone's 6MT, hop into it cold and smoke your heinie in your own MT--what say you then? And as for brainless--how about repeatedly pumping the left leg literally hundreds of times over the course of an hour while creeping along at less than 5 mph? OOOOOOO, SPORTY!!

You still don't address the argument, either, about assuming that if you don't currently drive an MT, you're not any good at it. It's just absurd to make those kinds of assumptions about a DRIVER of ANY car. I could care less whether YOU think an AT is a TRUE sports car or not--I object to insulting the skills of drivers of any car to drive a manual sports car just because they aren't driving one at the time.

Yes, you can throw out the "Dr. Phil" stuff if you wanna, but there's a reason folks like you seem to get so upset and resort to insults and name calling. I'm not diagnosing anything, but if someone enjoys those type of things, it's pretty clear to everyone with a little, old-fashioned common sense that the reason they do it is to make themselves feel better. Enjoy!

One last thing, dude: "whinny" is what a horse does; the insult you were searching for was "whiny".

Darthvol

I work 60 hrs most weeks, and if I can't get some of it done in the car, it would be about 70. That's just the way it is for a lot of folks these days. And having had manuals about all my life, it gets a little tiring flexing your left quad constantly in traffic situations where you can't do anything remotely sporty with the car. If my personal situation was different, I might very well still have an MT. To each his/her own.

desiZ

iTrader: (2)

thank u ! i was in the same dilemma as u considering my daily 40 mile commute,after reading ur post am happy i have a 6mt

SnakeBitten

iTrader: (8)

You can continue to argue on semantics all you want. You are on your own now..Buhbye buttercup

BTW I didnt tone down the name calling cupcake...I keep forgetting how tender the 5at Mafia is. You guys need to take the butt plugs out before you post. Maybe then you would get so aggitated when someone ribs ya a little.....Later boyssssssss .

Swiffer

iTrader: (8)