slay2k

Okay guys, PLEASE hear me out!

This is the THIRD (!) time I've test-driven 3 different models of 3 different Zs...

Pushing the pedal down in any gear results in GRADUAL, "LINEAR acceleration". There's no sudden sense of URGENCY or the RUSH you get when you do the same thing in another sports car, unless of course you FLOOR IT and let the tach hit 4000+ RPMs, and even THEN it doesn't give a tremendous boost.

It seems like I'm the only one who notices this "tiny detail", but I'm wondering how the majority of you can be so happy with your Zs that you overlook this crucial aspect of the drive, or are simply ACCEPTING it...

How can the car have a 5.4/5.5 0-60 time and feel so inadequate unless you floor the pedal and let the tach hit high RPMs ?

For comparison, today I drove a USED 1999 M3 (6cyl, 240 hp) with 50000+ miles on it this afternoon.... THIS car absolutely blew me away. The pickup in ANY gear, at ANY RPM, was insanely faster and more responsive than that of the Z. And I can get this car for $31,000 or so... even cheaper than a brand new Z.

HOW CAN THIS BE ? How can the Z have a 0-60 time of 5.x and feel so DULL and SLOW during pickup ?

Some of you have said that this is due to drive-by-wire and linear acceleration. Well, if that is the case, then linear acceleration sucks. I'm not shelling out $33,000+ for a Sports car to feel the acceleration GRADUALLY increase when I ask for it. And I don't want to hear the car hitting 5,000 rpms when I want a nice boost... the M3 doesn't do that... the M3 gives me a boost even when I'm at 2,000 or 1,500 RPM!

Matter of fact, the M3 PUSHES ME BACK INTO THE SEAT. The Z350 simply DOESNT.

Now what's really sad is that I absolutely ADORE the way the 350z looks, especially in red. Not only that, but I actually have a deposit down on a Daytona Blue Performance model which comes in TOMORROW... I'm SERIOUSLY thinking of cancelling...

Someone please set me straight. What in god's name am I doing different from all of you ? How can I notice this and ignore it ? Are the rest of you blinded by the LEGACY, BEAUTY, and STYLE of the car that you don't need to feel this rush when you drive ?

I swear, my heart rate increased THREE-FOLD when I drove the M3, without even pushing it to the limits... I never even hit 5,000 RPM !! This never happened with the Z.. =(( I really wish it did, since it's a beautiful and nice car.

Now I'm leaning towards a 2000 M-Roadster. Please, HELP ME!

-slay

Lee3Z

I also have 1993 Mazda RX-7TT and the accelation when the turbo's kick in throws you back in the seat. It gives a sensation of speed and power and yet my 350Z does not have this notable acceleration but it still gets within .2 of a second of the results of the RX-7. In other words it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there. The Z has loads of power but you just don't feel it like other cars. Buy the car you will love it!

Intrepid

There are already numerous threads discussing this same topic.
Here is one:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=14121

If you don't like the way the Z feels, then don't buy it. The 0-60 and 1/4 mile times speak for themselves.

perucho

p.s.--> why even reply to this idiot with words?

jeffw

The reason why so many cars have nonlinear throttle response and non-linear torque curves is because it changes the perception of the driving experience. It can be more exciting because it's more difficult to control. Also, its easy to notice that acceleration kicks in if the torque builds quickly or jumps suddenly (VTEC).

The Z on the other hand is built to go fast, period. That might be to the detriment of the "fun factor" for some (but not me). Also, keep in mind that the torque peak is at 4800rpm. You need to visit this range of rpm and higher (up to about 6000) to have the most fun. True sports cars will always require relatively high revving for good acceleration.

--
Jeff

kgb

No offense, but if you don't feel the 350z's acceleration is exciting enough for you, I would suggest you look else where. Unless you're looking for the words that will convince you that the Z's acceleration really is exciting. Its worked for others.

Daynar

The linear accelleration of the 350Z was one of the main reasons I bought it. I used to have a Subaru Impreza WRX and that car has a huge turbo kick that really throws you back into the seat. The problem is that you always have a lag waiting for the turbo to kick in and and then when it does kick in the sudden rush forward is difficult to control in traffic. This makes it exciting in a very bad kind of way. It may be good for rally racing with no other cars around, but it didn't make for a good daily driver.

With the 350Z I can control the acceleration with perfect precision. I can move around slower traffic at will with minimal clearance. The throttle response is actually faster because there's not turbo lag.

If you're really into that turbo rush then the 350Z doesn't feel as dramatic, but for real world driving it works a lot better.

rai

FYI the 240 HP M3 is no faster than the Z. Sounds like :

A) you are BS's-ing to get a response (ha ha very funny)

B) will be driving a M3 or some such car with 90% throttle within the first 30% of pedal travel.

Z33

My Z does exactly what it's told. All those Other(tm) sports cars and sports sedans with non-linear throttle response are just OVERreacting to driver input.

Z is honest, but with the relative lack of fireworks it's a little surprising to see the traffic fade so quickly into the distance in the rearview.

gammbino350z

I love the way the z accelerates. Isn't it nice to know that you can beat alot of sportscars out there and not even feel like your trying!

ares

iTrader: (2)

well while your out getting a car that "feels" fast, maybe you should grab some accesories that will make you "look" fast.

in the meantime, we'll all be driving cars that ARE fast, whether your test drive felt like it or not. tho the idea of ranking a cars performance on a brand new car is crazy in and of itself.

but hey, if you dont like it, dont buy it. let us know how fast your car felt when we're passing you by.

ZON

iTrader: (2)

Ya, please please do not take delivery of your Z tomorrow. Let someone who will really appreciate it take it. You just sound like a hater to me anyway. The car is quick and fast. You ask how can it do 5x 0-60. Because it has 287 HP & 274 ft lb of torque and a sweet gear box, that's how.

TJZ

Ditto. If you don't like it, shut up and stop complaining.

john0213

I doubt if he did even drive one before~

drake3

Looks and speed. Looks and speed.
Let me see... you want looks and speed. And you want torqey acceleration.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am guessing you are between 16 years old going on 16 and a half?

The 350Z is for people who appreciate an entire sports car for what it is. Balance, handling, feeling and feedback. You didn't mention any of these before so I am assuming you don't care about them. And really, it is probably because you don't get it because you have not had the chance to experience them. (A short test drive in an M3 does not count.)

BMWs are excellent cars. But you are going to miss out on many of the engineering features of a Bimmer if you are comparing them for just looks and speed.

Good luck with your decision.

drake3

Oh ALSO,

before you go buy your 2000 BMW - make sure you get what you WANT, because in 2000 BMW started using drive by wire throttles which is what gives the Nissan your "Weak linear acceleration".

ares

iTrader: (2)

I think he still hasnt mastered the idea of drive by wire, for full throttle you have to floor the gas, regaurdless of your revs.

I often find myself getting into a lull, just going along, not feeling much power, getting passed by compact pickups at stop lights. then I remember Im driving a Z. if I want to go, I have to step on the gas. I wonder if you guys do this too... anyways, when I remember to put my foot down, even to 3000RPMs I cant shift fast enough.

slay2k

How shall I say this..

Don't get your panties in a knot. I'm not trying to insult people here, I'm trying to get honest opinions.

With that out of the way, I'll answer some comments on an individual basis.

gambino, Z33, Daynar, Lee3Z, jeffw - thanks for making the only normal informative replies to my post.

drake - You've left me little to say. In case you can't read, the car was a '99 M3. On top of that, BMW didn't make M3's in the year 2000, so if you're going to talk about German engineering, handling, and feedback, at least try not to sound like an idiot.

Furthermore, looks and speed? Ahh yes, you're right, those shouldn't be important. I suppose you bought (or will buy) your Z for it's practical day-to-day use. The reason I didn't mention handling and other details is because they're irrelevant to my discussion as they are COMPARABLE between the two cars. Besides, if you want handling and feedback, go buy an Integra Type-R. For the amount of money I'm spending, I want looks and speed.

Finally, my "Short Drive in an M3" took about 45 minutes. And with regard to my age.. you've made enough of an *** of yourself by making that remark, so I'll just stop here.

john & tjz - If you're going to make one-line remarks, then I recommend you take your own advice.

throbbing_zon - Don't waste everyone's time with ubiquitous car HP information that everyone already knows. If you've got nothing to say, then don't bother. And if I sound like a "hater" to you, then you sound like a "moron" to me.

ares - you've made 2 posts. One of them was perfectly legitimate where you mentioned flooring the pedal will apply full throttle. Perhaps that's the reason I didn't enjoy test-driving the Z as much as I thought I would... I'm not doubting it's power, I'm doubting it's fun-factor.

As to the other post you made, about how you're going to be getting a car that IS fast ... the difference between the '99 M3 and the 350Z is about 1/10th of a second in 0-60, or 5.6. So I somehow doubt you will be passing me by if I get the M3.

rai - yeah that's it, I'm bs'ing because I've got nothing to do with myself. You got me.

And where exactly do you get your stats as per your statement that the M3 applies 90% throttle when you apply 30% of the gas pedal? Sounds like BS to me.

perucho - you impressed me with your maturity here.

Thanks for the input, or the lack of it for some of you.

-slay

ares

iTrader: (2)

Im a bit confused on why the bmw would "feel" faster, I assumed you were reffering to a turbo charged or Vtec car. BMWs have broad curves. so there is really no reason for them to "feel" faster as far as power surges go. maybe their throttle was more touchy without drive by wire, I donno. perhaps the sound louder and that can also give a person a feeling of speed.

last but not least, suspension. Im sure youve ridden in one of those simulator rides, of a rolor coaster or whatever. they simulate acceleration by tilting you back. you cant tell the difference. however in a car, if the car sets back on its rear end during acceleration you feel more pressure in the seat, vs a car which stays level with stiff suspension. Im not commenting on the BMW's suspension since Im not that familiar with it. I would imagine it would be pretty stiff, but I have a feeling its a bit softer than the Z, just because they require a smoother ride than nissan gave the Z.

D'oh

For any car to have full HP you will need to have full throttle. Due to the non linear nature of airflow through a standard throttle, most mechanical setups will achieve full or near full throttle when the pedal has only achieved partial travel. This has the effect of making a car FEEL faster than it is, because even at half pedal travel you feel almost all engine power. Therefore your mind thinks that you have way more power at your disposal than you really do. If you continue to roll onto the throttle you will NOT get double the power.

The Z however, is much more linear in its throttle response. This will make the car FEEL less fast, because to get full power you truly have to floor the accelerator. Then you think back to that M3 and say, "Wow, even at partial throttle it feels faster than the Z." During many driving situations, the less linear throttle response is more rewarding, because you often think your car is faster than it really is, and you don't really have a need for more linear response like in the Z. Some of us on the other hand, are used to the linear throttle of the Z, and have come to truely enjoy its full range and its easier modulation of the available power. We all understand that the power is there, it's just that you really need to press the pedal to the floor to get it.

Furthermore, the Z's engine has a fairly flat torque curve. I think from looking at some dyno's that 90% of the torque was available from 2500 to 6000 RPM or something like that. Maybe it was more like a 3000 RPM range, but the point is that the flat torque curve means that you won't feel the "surge" of the torque peak. Instead you are accelerating at a similar rate throughout the RPM range. While this also makes the Z FEEL slower than some other cars, it really helps the driver maintain control in extreme situations and makes the engine more flexible for most driving.

I remember reading an interview with one of the Z's engineers, and he was saying that they wanted to create a car that would allow the driver to lap fast and hard, but without getting tired (or at least without expending wasted energy trying to stay mentally and physically focused on a "twitchy" vehicle). It was that mentality that led them to make the Z as a FAST car that actually felt slower than it was. It allows the driver to be much more calm and relaxed during aggressive driving.

Anyhow, in the end it comes down to personal choice. The Z may not FEEL as fast as it really is, and other cars may FEEL faster than they really are, and as a driver you need to find the one that matches the type of driving you do most often. People stuck in traffic on straight roads, or those who don't have an opportunity to race may want a car that FEELS faster than it really is, so they can get the adrenaline rush without creating as much risk. People who race or drive aggressively frequently, may want a car that FEELS slower than it really is so they can maintain better control. Either way, choose the one that is best for you.

And also, don't be surprised to be flamed when you post a thread with a title as trollish as yours (I know it was just to get responses, but still...).

-D'oh!