What commission do salesmen get on the Z???
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 503
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Car salespeople, IMO, get a bad rap because there really are so many poor car salespeople out there...
...but a few good ones as well.
Nothing irks me more than being snubbed at a dealer (Brasso Nissan, Calgary
)... or dealing with a rep who knows less about the car than me (although most Canadian dealers now have a designated Z rep who knows his/her stuff).
Sales is a game of supply and demand... but it still ticks me off when a dealer will fall all over me to push a Maxima at $1000 profit but snub me on a $3000+ profit Z because there's a waiting list (nevermind the fact that I'm brand loyal, and may buy a Z, a Sentra for my girl or maybe a Murano... and I get a new car every 3 years typically).
Car dealers tend to only care about the deal in hand and do little if anything to foster a relationship with their buyers.
Sorry for the venting... but this seems to be the "venting thread".
...but a few good ones as well.
Nothing irks me more than being snubbed at a dealer (Brasso Nissan, Calgary
)... or dealing with a rep who knows less about the car than me (although most Canadian dealers now have a designated Z rep who knows his/her stuff).Sales is a game of supply and demand... but it still ticks me off when a dealer will fall all over me to push a Maxima at $1000 profit but snub me on a $3000+ profit Z because there's a waiting list (nevermind the fact that I'm brand loyal, and may buy a Z, a Sentra for my girl or maybe a Murano... and I get a new car every 3 years typically).
Car dealers tend to only care about the deal in hand and do little if anything to foster a relationship with their buyers.
Sorry for the venting... but this seems to be the "venting thread".
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 28
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From: Madison Wi.
Pay rates
Commision varies a lot....$50 - 1000?? Depends on the car, the deal etc. ON AVERAGE, a commission is 200-300 bucks.
I can tell you this though... a car salesman puts in way more time and effort than your average UNION worker. Unions rellay tick me off....why do you think the car prices are so high??? Nissan is currently Non-unionized...thank GOD...that is why Nissan can offer such great deals on 350Z's.
MikeDNY: A few things to consider:
1. I would not locate a car without a signed order or deposit either...If I brought in a Morphodite car that nobody wants, I sure don't want to get stuck with it. In the same respect, no car found, no obligation or cost to consumer..of course.
2. Rates do expire at the end of marketing cycles, sometimes they are extended, sometimes they are raised, or lowered. These fluctuations are solely at the MFG's finance companies discretion.
3. On Nissan leases, I can only waive security deposits if A. you are a current Nissan lessee, or B. if I RAISE the money factor .00015. An example.. I just leased a Altima to a 300M owner, going over the numbers I brought up Security deposit and the customer was very adverse, stating " he does not pay sec. dep." sooooo.... I raised the money factor, waived the security and he was happy as a clam.
4. You have to understand, a dealer trade at the end of the month is a real PITA, most dealers wont even return calls to other dealers.
I point these out not to discount your experience, obviously the presentation of lease information, and circumstances were experienced by you. But as I read the story.....it does not sound to far from a normal end of month, incentive changing period.
Please understand.... the finance companies do not let us know what the rates are going to be following the month end sales close. Sometimes they get better, sometimes they get worse. Usually a lease will get more expensive as the year rolls on since the residual changes periodically.
I can tell you this though... a car salesman puts in way more time and effort than your average UNION worker. Unions rellay tick me off....why do you think the car prices are so high??? Nissan is currently Non-unionized...thank GOD...that is why Nissan can offer such great deals on 350Z's.
MikeDNY: A few things to consider:
1. I would not locate a car without a signed order or deposit either...If I brought in a Morphodite car that nobody wants, I sure don't want to get stuck with it. In the same respect, no car found, no obligation or cost to consumer..of course.
2. Rates do expire at the end of marketing cycles, sometimes they are extended, sometimes they are raised, or lowered. These fluctuations are solely at the MFG's finance companies discretion.
3. On Nissan leases, I can only waive security deposits if A. you are a current Nissan lessee, or B. if I RAISE the money factor .00015. An example.. I just leased a Altima to a 300M owner, going over the numbers I brought up Security deposit and the customer was very adverse, stating " he does not pay sec. dep." sooooo.... I raised the money factor, waived the security and he was happy as a clam.
4. You have to understand, a dealer trade at the end of the month is a real PITA, most dealers wont even return calls to other dealers.
I point these out not to discount your experience, obviously the presentation of lease information, and circumstances were experienced by you. But as I read the story.....it does not sound to far from a normal end of month, incentive changing period.
Please understand.... the finance companies do not let us know what the rates are going to be following the month end sales close. Sometimes they get better, sometimes they get worse. Usually a lease will get more expensive as the year rolls on since the residual changes periodically.
Z Flier
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: VA - USA
The reason people don't like car sales people:
1) The 'true' price isn't set, so negotiation plays a key part.
2) Pressure tatics to close the deal
3) Pressure tatics to make people buy various options
4) Deception about what is and what is not possible.. especially when it comes to dealer installed options and requirements (add dealer variation to that.. and you see how it gets bad)
5) Inconsistancy between dealer responses... basically they seem to like giving an answer, rather then making sure its 100% correct (case in point.. how many people got 1 answer from their sales guy on delivery date.. and when you talked to a manager or fleet guy you got a second answer?)
Why is dealing with a car sales person more annoying then other sales opportunities?
1) Most people when car shopping, already know they want to buy a car.. possibly not which one.. but they know they are buying... so pressure tatics to close are completely DEALER-oriented goals.. not consumer. Compare that to window shopping TVs, etc.. they MIGHT want to buy a TV.. but a car is not a impulse buy for most people.
2) Lack of knowing what is truth vs slick-talk. The internet has helped with this greatly with sites like edmunds, etc. With cars there is so many variables, vs a boxed product.
3) The unknown about whos interest the sales person is campaigning for.
4) Pure commission sales people have alot more at risk
On my Z purchase, and with my friend's, we both felt it was the easiest car we've ever bought. Why? We researched, we knew EXACTLY what we wanted, there was no price negotiation, there was no closing tatics (sales people were inable to do anything to push up or back.. and there were other buys who would take your slot anyways), and the typical dealer speal about installed options was minimal.
The only fight I had with mine was a stupid sales rep who insisted that I buy the locking wheel lugs and flat out lied 'well they come on the truck that way', and inferred it wasn't optional. Which is a lie (BTW.. they wanted $300 for them as well). After arguing with him for a few minutes on the topic.. finally my rep came back, took over, and it was a yes/no question, and we moved on.
When I took my friend to pickup his Z, I sat around and talked with the other sales reps while he did his paperwork.
I listened for 30+min while this guy tried to sell his paint protection and bras.. and tried to convince me clear bras stink.. 'we were going to carry them, but then we found the glue wouldn't stick.. so we wouldn't carry them'.. and so what in their mind is better? cloth bras.. which they sell of course. And lets not forget the lecture on paint proctection..
All of which when you are sitting in front of someone who knows more about the topic then they do, you see how bad and misleading their pitch is.
Its these things that make dealing with commission sales reps painful.
And I know sales people.. I've worked for years as the technical half for our sales teams. My sales teams carry quotas in the millions, while selling protects with sales cycles on average of 3-6months.. with ASPs on the average of 15k. So these aren't your door to door sales guys.
Sales people aren't evil.. pressure tatics and lying are what is evil.
If more people acted to 'facilitate' the sale, rather then close it with maximum profit margin, then consumers would be happier.
1) The 'true' price isn't set, so negotiation plays a key part.
2) Pressure tatics to close the deal
3) Pressure tatics to make people buy various options
4) Deception about what is and what is not possible.. especially when it comes to dealer installed options and requirements (add dealer variation to that.. and you see how it gets bad)
5) Inconsistancy between dealer responses... basically they seem to like giving an answer, rather then making sure its 100% correct (case in point.. how many people got 1 answer from their sales guy on delivery date.. and when you talked to a manager or fleet guy you got a second answer?)
Why is dealing with a car sales person more annoying then other sales opportunities?
1) Most people when car shopping, already know they want to buy a car.. possibly not which one.. but they know they are buying... so pressure tatics to close are completely DEALER-oriented goals.. not consumer. Compare that to window shopping TVs, etc.. they MIGHT want to buy a TV.. but a car is not a impulse buy for most people.
2) Lack of knowing what is truth vs slick-talk. The internet has helped with this greatly with sites like edmunds, etc. With cars there is so many variables, vs a boxed product.
3) The unknown about whos interest the sales person is campaigning for.
4) Pure commission sales people have alot more at risk
On my Z purchase, and with my friend's, we both felt it was the easiest car we've ever bought. Why? We researched, we knew EXACTLY what we wanted, there was no price negotiation, there was no closing tatics (sales people were inable to do anything to push up or back.. and there were other buys who would take your slot anyways), and the typical dealer speal about installed options was minimal.
The only fight I had with mine was a stupid sales rep who insisted that I buy the locking wheel lugs and flat out lied 'well they come on the truck that way', and inferred it wasn't optional. Which is a lie (BTW.. they wanted $300 for them as well). After arguing with him for a few minutes on the topic.. finally my rep came back, took over, and it was a yes/no question, and we moved on.
When I took my friend to pickup his Z, I sat around and talked with the other sales reps while he did his paperwork.
I listened for 30+min while this guy tried to sell his paint protection and bras.. and tried to convince me clear bras stink.. 'we were going to carry them, but then we found the glue wouldn't stick.. so we wouldn't carry them'.. and so what in their mind is better? cloth bras.. which they sell of course. And lets not forget the lecture on paint proctection..
All of which when you are sitting in front of someone who knows more about the topic then they do, you see how bad and misleading their pitch is.
Its these things that make dealing with commission sales reps painful.
And I know sales people.. I've worked for years as the technical half for our sales teams. My sales teams carry quotas in the millions, while selling protects with sales cycles on average of 3-6months.. with ASPs on the average of 15k. So these aren't your door to door sales guys.
Sales people aren't evil.. pressure tatics and lying are what is evil.
If more people acted to 'facilitate' the sale, rather then close it with maximum profit margin, then consumers would be happier.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Re: Pay rates
Originally posted by KayserNissan
Commision varies a lot....$50 - 1000?? Depends on the car, the deal etc. ON AVERAGE, a commission is 200-300 bucks.
I can tell you this though... a car salesman puts in way more time and effort than your average UNION worker. Unions rellay tick me off....why do you think the car prices are so high??? Nissan is currently Non-unionized...thank GOD...that is why Nissan can offer such great deals on 350Z's.
MikeDNY: A few things to consider:
1. I would not locate a car without a signed order or deposit either...If I brought in a Morphodite car that nobody wants, I sure don't want to get stuck with it. In the same respect, no car found, no obligation or cost to consumer..of course.
2. Rates do expire at the end of marketing cycles, sometimes they are extended, sometimes they are raised, or lowered. These fluctuations are solely at the MFG's finance companies discretion.
3. On Nissan leases, I can only waive security deposits if A. you are a current Nissan lessee, or B. if I RAISE the money factor .00015. An example.. I just leased a Altima to a 300M owner, going over the numbers I brought up Security deposit and the customer was very adverse, stating " he does not pay sec. dep." sooooo.... I raised the money factor, waived the security and he was happy as a clam.
4. You have to understand, a dealer trade at the end of the month is a real PITA, most dealers wont even return calls to other dealers.
I point these out not to discount your experience, obviously the presentation of lease information, and circumstances were experienced by you. But as I read the story.....it does not sound to far from a normal end of month, incentive changing period.
Please understand.... the finance companies do not let us know what the rates are going to be following the month end sales close. Sometimes they get better, sometimes they get worse. Usually a lease will get more expensive as the year rolls on since the residual changes periodically.
Commision varies a lot....$50 - 1000?? Depends on the car, the deal etc. ON AVERAGE, a commission is 200-300 bucks.
I can tell you this though... a car salesman puts in way more time and effort than your average UNION worker. Unions rellay tick me off....why do you think the car prices are so high??? Nissan is currently Non-unionized...thank GOD...that is why Nissan can offer such great deals on 350Z's.
MikeDNY: A few things to consider:
1. I would not locate a car without a signed order or deposit either...If I brought in a Morphodite car that nobody wants, I sure don't want to get stuck with it. In the same respect, no car found, no obligation or cost to consumer..of course.
2. Rates do expire at the end of marketing cycles, sometimes they are extended, sometimes they are raised, or lowered. These fluctuations are solely at the MFG's finance companies discretion.
3. On Nissan leases, I can only waive security deposits if A. you are a current Nissan lessee, or B. if I RAISE the money factor .00015. An example.. I just leased a Altima to a 300M owner, going over the numbers I brought up Security deposit and the customer was very adverse, stating " he does not pay sec. dep." sooooo.... I raised the money factor, waived the security and he was happy as a clam.
4. You have to understand, a dealer trade at the end of the month is a real PITA, most dealers wont even return calls to other dealers.
I point these out not to discount your experience, obviously the presentation of lease information, and circumstances were experienced by you. But as I read the story.....it does not sound to far from a normal end of month, incentive changing period.
Please understand.... the finance companies do not let us know what the rates are going to be following the month end sales close. Sometimes they get better, sometimes they get worse. Usually a lease will get more expensive as the year rolls on since the residual changes periodically.
1. With regard to dealer trading, they initially requested the deposit before they would even LOOK for a vehicle equipped the way I wanted. Of course we would have to have deal in place before they OBTAINED it.
2. BMW F.S. allows you to lock in rates for 60 days with just a credit app. The dealer did not inform me of this (he implied that you must order to lock in rates). Basically, I can go in anytime in the next two months and lease at dec. rates. I had to find this out after the fact on a Bimmer board.
3. We were already dealing above the buy rate (BMW dealers esp. like to make money on financing--I will never go along w/ this because over complicates the deal. Basically, they were trying to show a market value cap cost reduction, but make it up on financing).
4. Thats what they claimed occured in this case. Whether that is the case or not I don't know. However, they certainly wanted to steer me to the vehicle on the lot (41k car w/o leather and with nav.---not exactly a car people are gonna line up for!)
I understand that negotiation is all part of game and neither the buyer nor the dealer can show all his cards. But many car dealers take it much too far. Deception and outright lying is common place and basically S.O.P. at many dealerships. We could saturate this forum w/ nothing but bad dealership experiences about bait and switch, b.s. fees, lies, inconsistent terms, etc.
All I wanted when I went to the BMW dealer was a test drive, the lease terms advertised in the paper, an avg. market-based discount, and a car with options similar to those I want. Could have been in and out in less than an hour.
New Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,731
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From: Midwest
Civic SI
Actually the Civic Si is one of the few cars that is still worth more then when new. I paid 16,800 for a brand new 2000 Electron Blue SI and sold it for $1,000 profit a year later. People are still willing to pay that amount because the new ones are ugly and don't scream (lower RPM) like the 99-00. If Honda came out with a civic type R in the U.S. I would think about buying one of those instead of the 350Z. OK maybe not but they would be a rocket.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 323
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From: herndon, VA
all i got to say is there are some terrible people in the buisness. However, sometimes you do run into honest salesmen. No doubt, just like anything else there are goods and bads.
as for how much they make? it's really something we should not ask. i don't think it's appropriate. However, on some dealers you make 250$ plus 100$ for CSI survey. So my friend tells me it's between 350$ to 500$, but not more. Keep in mind 500$ is not a lot of money. They have to do this day in and day out. you should give them a break sometimes. All you should do is get a deal you are happy with and keep the rest shut up.
It's not like ok man, i want to pay this much for the car, but damn u r making 1k off, how but giving me the kickbacks etc?
it's unethical. Same in Realestate - u r not suppose to turn around give ur customer money back etc.
who cares? if u really do then get a job and see how much of a hard work it is.
but i swear some of the dealers are as$holes and they need a good beating. Not all....
LIL Raja
as for how much they make? it's really something we should not ask. i don't think it's appropriate. However, on some dealers you make 250$ plus 100$ for CSI survey. So my friend tells me it's between 350$ to 500$, but not more. Keep in mind 500$ is not a lot of money. They have to do this day in and day out. you should give them a break sometimes. All you should do is get a deal you are happy with and keep the rest shut up.
It's not like ok man, i want to pay this much for the car, but damn u r making 1k off, how but giving me the kickbacks etc?
it's unethical. Same in Realestate - u r not suppose to turn around give ur customer money back etc.
who cares? if u really do then get a job and see how much of a hard work it is.
but i swear some of the dealers are as$holes and they need a good beating. Not all....
LIL Raja
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Originally posted by LIL RAJA
as for how much they make? it's really something we should not ask. i don't think it's appropriate. However, on some dealers you make 250$ plus 100$ for CSI survey. So my friend tells me it's between 350$ to 500$, but not more. Keep in mind 500$ is not a lot of money. They have to do this day in and day out. you should give them a break sometimes. All you should do is get a deal you are happy with and keep the rest shut up.
It's not like ok man, i want to pay this much for the car, but damn u r making 1k off, how but giving me the kickbacks etc?
it's unethical. Same in Realestate - u r not suppose to turn around give ur customer money back etc.
LIL Raja
as for how much they make? it's really something we should not ask. i don't think it's appropriate. However, on some dealers you make 250$ plus 100$ for CSI survey. So my friend tells me it's between 350$ to 500$, but not more. Keep in mind 500$ is not a lot of money. They have to do this day in and day out. you should give them a break sometimes. All you should do is get a deal you are happy with and keep the rest shut up.
It's not like ok man, i want to pay this much for the car, but damn u r making 1k off, how but giving me the kickbacks etc?
it's unethical. Same in Realestate - u r not suppose to turn around give ur customer money back etc.
LIL Raja
But maybe next time I go in to get a car and get asked for a credit app. I should say it's none of your damn business what my credit is and how much I make.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,332
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From: Miami, FL
MikeyDNY: Great point!
I work for a brokerage. If any of the brokers I work with tried to pull the **** that some of the car dealers do they would spend their next 5 yrs in jail or end up paying a huge fine.
Hell there is so many rules I think 3 times before I say something.
Personally I have no compassion for car salesman. I would put in some stronger words here but I decided against it. Its their own choice. Sorry but how can you lie about every single thing to your customer?
I have an idea why doesn't the government license and oversee the operations. God wouldn't that be great. A car salesman without the BS factor. Maybe in the future.
PS if any of you have a trading account look at your confirm you will see all the commision from A-Z.
I work for a brokerage. If any of the brokers I work with tried to pull the **** that some of the car dealers do they would spend their next 5 yrs in jail or end up paying a huge fine.
Hell there is so many rules I think 3 times before I say something.
Personally I have no compassion for car salesman. I would put in some stronger words here but I decided against it. Its their own choice. Sorry but how can you lie about every single thing to your customer?
I have an idea why doesn't the government license and oversee the operations. God wouldn't that be great. A car salesman without the BS factor. Maybe in the future.
PS if any of you have a trading account look at your confirm you will see all the commision from A-Z.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 323
Likes: 0
From: herndon, VA
Originally posted by MikeyDNY
In real estate, you know the exact commission of the agent. It is not a big deal to know what commission a salesman makes on a car, and no one is asking for "kickbacks."
But maybe next time I go in to get a car and get asked for a credit app. I should say it's none of your damn business what my credit is and how much I make.
In real estate, you know the exact commission of the agent. It is not a big deal to know what commission a salesman makes on a car, and no one is asking for "kickbacks."
But maybe next time I go in to get a car and get asked for a credit app. I should say it's none of your damn business what my credit is and how much I make.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Ohio
Originally posted by TriX
MikeyDNY: Great point!
MikeyDNY: Great point!
It's so easy to get turned around on a car deal and spend 4-5k more than you had planned. The sales price is only the tip of the iceberg--interest rates, add-ons, fees, being pushed into a higher priced model, etc.
Also, people shouldn't let salesmen "shame you" into paying more than should by telling you if negotiate, you can't afford the car, go look at a yugo, etc. We saw that in this thread. BrianZ had it right: if a grand here and there is nothing, ask the salesman to come up with out of his own pocket.
Even the guy who posted on here awhile ago that he bought an M3 convert. instead of the 350z stated that he went w/ a 2k2 model to save 4k (on a 60k+ car).
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2
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From: pa
If you walk in to the dealership well informed most dealers will back off.. I walk in with my financial calculator to compute payment, KBB figures and rates from several other financial sources and then go from there.. If they see that you have some sort of brain power (ofter more than the salesmen across the table from you) then they will back off and be realistic.. I bought a jeep liberty about a year ago and the guy came over, showed me the numbers (which were indentical to mine) and said "you fill what you think we should make on this sale" and I will see what I can do.. I put $250 for the profit and they came back at $275. I then gave them a Realor coupon for $500 off any DC auto and they honored it.. They still make money on volume and the kickback the company gives each dealer for selling cars quickly.. The quicker they move them, the more money they make..
Ive got a friend who runs a nissan dealership and he pulls in over $100K a year (no sales).. He took a pay cut for this position since he was pulling in mid $100's when he was a salesman! You just have to be smart and appear honest and you can make a ton of money in car sales it seems.. The problem is there are so many stupid salespeople (men and women) in that business that the consumer assumes they all are..
Ive got a friend who runs a nissan dealership and he pulls in over $100K a year (no sales).. He took a pay cut for this position since he was pulling in mid $100's when he was a salesman! You just have to be smart and appear honest and you can make a ton of money in car sales it seems.. The problem is there are so many stupid salespeople (men and women) in that business that the consumer assumes they all are..