Nope. One blip, then clutch out. No hesitation.

 

i *always* rev match my downshift.
at best im having more fun
at worst im saving the tranny (read- clutch and syncros) wear and tear.

i didnt do it that much before my G, but now its like shifting. its 2nd nature.

 

Everyone is talking about double-clutching and heel-toe...which may be useful and fun things to know on the race track, but as far as I can gather based on my own driving experience you need not use those methods on the street. For me one of the most gratifying parts of my Z experience is downshifting. You start to get a feel for how much faster the engine turns at the next lower gear, then when you downshift you try to hit that speed with your throttle blip.

Maybe I am a pansy for allowing these modern new-fangled synchros to do their job, but on every downshift I:

- clutch in
- change gears / blip throttle simultaneously
- clutch out

Do it fast enough and hit the right engine speed and you won't feel a thing, which is ironically a fantastic feeling! If I am going fast and need to slow down pretty quickly I usually shift down to the next gear, and then to the next gear if time allows, then I use the brakes after the engine has already slowed the car a bit. Often times this happens when I am approching a traffic light or something, and if the light then turns green I take note of how fast I am going and shift into the appropriate gear to get going again.

I would contend that if you don't plan on taking your car to the track, you will never need to know how to heel-toe downshift. It would be a fun thing to know though!

EDIT: And don't be slipping the clutch on downshifts to slow down quickly...that's what brakes are for! They are both normally-wearing items, but one costs a LOT more than the other to have replaced!

 

Just because they can be switched doesn't mean they should.

Switching #2 and #3 is improper technique, and I stand by that 100%.

 

Why would it be more "proper" ? I'm curious.

 

what is this blip everyone keeps mentioning and isnt it bad to press the throttle with the clutch in ????

 

they should mandate that you take a course in driving stick before you buy a manual car

 

+1

 

+1 and heel toe when braking simultaneously.

 

I'm curious too. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it make more sense to have the car in the proper gear before you blip the throttle? My point is that that split second for the shift after blipping the throttle means you have to rev slightly higher than if you shifted and then blipped meaning you have to rev higher the way you're saying it should be done. For instance if I were to shift to 2nd while going 60 (basically redline in 2nd) if I blipped the throttle all the way and then shifted wouldn't the rpms have dropped past the point I need them at since I can't rev past redline?

 

Yep.

 

I would think that if you are in the RPM range where blipping the throttle to downshift will put you at (or above) redline in the next gear down, then you shouldn't be downshifting. As an example, for this to happen you would probably need to be around 6000 RPM (guesstimate...) in 3rd gear, meaning that a downshift to 2nd will put you at redline-ish....and in that case why downshift? You can just let off the gas and at that high of an engine speed the engine braking will be pretty significant in the initial 3rd gear. Then if you want, wait until the revs drop down by themselves in 3rd, then downshift to 2nd when you have room on the tachometer.

Or did I misunderstand what you meant?

 

If you were downshifting at 6K in 3rd, wouldn't that be more of an emergency maneuver?

 

Yeah I was thinking that too. However in an emergency where you need to stop or slow down immediately, I would think (or hope at least) that everyone's first move would be to hit the brake pedal and leave the car in gear....then, even after a half a second, the braking would have pulled the engine speed down considerably, allowing a downshift without bouncing off the rev limiter. Another thought is that if you are downshifting in an emergency, i.e. to quickly stop the car, you would probably want to just let the clutch out without rev-matching. Sure it eats up the clutch, but it slows the car down a lot faster.

 

You didn't misunderstand me but you kind of missed the point. I wasn't saying this is the best way to downshift, but it was an example to roast because of how he said you should downshift. I'll try to put it a totally different way. Every time that I've seen any instruction for heel and toeing or double clutching they have always advised to remove the car from the gear it is currently running in and then rev-matching. Regardless of whether you're putting it in neutral (double clutch) or in the desired gear (heel and toe) you do that before rev-matching. So I was just asking why it is the correct way to rev-match when downshifting without the braking you should rev-match first and then shift. I just am curious why this is the proper way to do this move.
By the way, I do what I said occasionally. When I'm coming up to an exit ramp on the highway I'll downshift and rev-match before the exit and then brake seperately afterwards since I can get into second at 60 or so. I do heel and toe all the time too but I do that every now and again to do something slightly different.

 

Wow, this whole discussion is dragging on and on!

Let’s not forget the reason why we want to rev-match: Downshifting with out upsetting the car’s balance. Period. Whatever the exact sequence, if you manage to do it smoothly and quickly, then you have a correct technique. Blip whenever you must to have the right rpm when you release the clutch.

One “level” up we have heel and toe. Why would we want to do that? Simply to save time and overlap the braking and downshifting operations. It saves time and allow you to be free to work the steering alone when you get to your turn in point.

At this stage, transmission wear should not be an issue for the whole life of the vehicle.

One other “level” up will be heel and toe combined with trail braking into a turn (ie, entering a turn while dragging the brakes to keep the front end loaded). This technique is the fun part of driving fast, where you get more grip than you should, out of your tires. Only now does balance become really important. Jerk the car while braking and downshifting on corner entry, and you’ll understeer or spin. Only now is your previous street training doing smooth downshift comes together and you can gain the “full benefit” of it.

So, it is my opinion that heel and toeing on the street is pretty much useless, yet becomes invaluable down the road when we decide to take to the track.

The only time that blip timing is important is when double clutching. And that moment should be pretty obvious to anybody attempting it.

Aaah, and again. The engine does not help slow the car down faster. Never.

 

so....how many of ya downshift from 3 to 2 perfectly everytime? do ya use the same rev-match technique???

 

I do it pretty good most of the time...

 

I'm getting much better...I do double clutch though, and I really cant find arguments against that to make me stop.

 

Downshifting @ 6K from any gear is not an emergency maneuver, it's automobile suicide. You'll send your motor close to the 10,000 rpm range. While you're in gear, you should not downshift (and I mean heel-toe/3-pedal) until your engine speed reaches 5K rpm.