Hey guys, this is the first time I've posted. As you can see I currently drive an Integra type R ( yes, a real one, not one with just stickers and a spoiler). It's nice but I've had some bad luck with the car (it's been vandalized, my mom backed into it) Also, I'm sick and tired of having an icon of the sport compact import world, simply b/c every riceboy in town wants a shot at the type R. People have so hyped this car up beyond it's capabilities as far as straightline performance goes. It is BY FAR the best front wheel drive performance car ever offered in North America. I'm looking for a car with at least as good handling with more power for the straights, and some class wouldnt hurt. At this point, I am heavily leaning toward a performance model 350Z or a 350Z convertable but I am also considaring an S2000, 99 M roadster, or leasing a Porsche Boxster.

Here's what I have to say: The 350Z is going to be a great car, no doubt about it. But seriously, the Porsche and BMW ragging has to stop. Why? The arguement that you make against them works for domestic guys with their Cobras too. The muscle car guys feel that the 350Z is too overpriced for not enough power. However, then we counter by talking about refinement, steering, handling, and reliability. The same goes for the Porsche guys. Not everything about a car can be translated from numbers.

Here's an example, the Ferrari 360 Modena loses to the Viper GTS in almost every performance catagory when looking at the numbers. So does that mean when someone buys a Ferrari, it's just for the name? Well, partially yes, BUT the Ferrari gives better feel and connects the driver to the road as well as any road car in the world. Also, the handling is much more predictable than a Viper would be. It's twice been Car magazine's performance car of the year and won Road and Track's best handling competition as well. If that's not enough the high revving V8 is supposed to be just music to the ears as well as pumping out 395 hp.

I feel that for all the crap that the Boxster S gets, it offers what it does with no regrets. A midengined car that is in the soul of the Porsche 356. It offers typical porsche steering and typical porsche braking, which means both are excellent. Is it underpowered for the price? Yes, but it doesnt mean the car is crap.

Look everyone likes to feel that their purchase was the right one esp. for $30,000+, but I just dont think adults should resort to putting down other cars aka middle school style.

 

I agree with you 100%. To it's credit, this forum does better than most others, but I don't think you are ever going to be able to get away from "bashing" entirely. People want to feel they have made the best choice, and to justify that choice will often... shall we say be "less than positive" when discussing the alternatives.

We are lucky; we live in at a time when there are a lot of alternatives. Only a few years back the sports car segment looked pretty anemic. Now there are lots of cars available. We just have to remember that when some one chooses something other than what we do, it doesn't mean they are wrong... just that they have yet to ascend to the same level of impeccable taste we have achieved.

 

Excellant post -- for a newbie. J/k. I agree completely with your post, although my personal opinion is that you pay quite a premium for the Porshe name on the Boxster. But I certainly agree with your general point, that there is no one best car and that the Z stands on its own -- we don't need to tear down other cars to build up the Z. Based on your thoughtful first post, I hope you decide to more fully join our community.

 

You make a very good point in a very well-written post. But when I posted that the Boxster rode like a go-cart (or MR2 Spyder) and sounded like a blender, it was from my impression driving one. But yeah, it is a bit harsh, and a bit childish based on my Z-obsession. Oh well, we are all like big kids awaiting our next toy!

 

I couldn't agree more with you. I hate hearing people slam other cars that should be well respected.

 

Good first post. I see your point. I was like most people putting down the Boxster B/C it was an entry level (poor man's) porsche. So I went out last night to have a look see. My long post can be viewed in the off topic section. For a frame of reference I have owened in the past a 1.9L Z3. The Z3 like the boxster , thunderbird, S2000, and the 350Z will be fun to be driving especially when there was only a few around.

First let me say that the Boxster is pulling them into the showroom. This includes a lot of chicks (I wouldn't be surprised if it has more women buyers than men). Not to put it down, that's just the way I see it. My wife would buy one but she could care less about the 350Z.

Second the porsche folks will try to convince you the Boxster is a chip off the old turbo block it is not. The Boxster is a $30K something car and the boxster S is a $40K something car. You are paying at least $10K for the porsche name. Also you pay double for any service. A loaded Boxster S will set you back $60K+ !!

You make a comparison between the modena and the viper, it is a good one. You pay for the ferrari name as well as the refinement and status symbol. The Z should be somewhere in between the mustang and the Boxster S on the status/refinement ladder.

All I have to say to you is when talking about the 350Z (esp the track or touring) you have to compaire it to the Boxster S. The plain boxster is not nearly as fast. The S is about equal to the Z. Now look at the price difference. The boxster S is at least $20K more than the 350Z. That's too much for me. I know its a convertible, but that should only cost you $5K difference.

 

I owned a '95 Porsche 911 for eight months. I also had a '93 Z32TT at the same time. Guess which I car I drove more? The Z. Why? Because when the Porsche wasn't in the shop (electronics and brakes they never could get right), it was frustrating me with weak air-conditioning and an engine note that grated on my nerves. The interior rattled and the car was barely the equal of the Z in performance.

Eliminate the Porsche mystique, and you've got an ovepriced piece of crap. I'm not bashing the marque, I'm merely basing my opinion on the eight month experience I had with a brand new example of Porsche's finest. It was my first Porsche, and my last. All this crap about about the "soul of a Porsche" mean precious little when you've dumped $75,000 on a car that couldn't compete on a daily basis with a Japanese version half its price.

I kept the Z for almost nine years. I sold it with 65,000 trouble free miles on the odometer. The Porsche was such a pain the *** I couldn't even stand it for year.

 

Uh, yeah.

Plus this is a 350Z forum.

What do you expect?

 

While I think that is being a little harsh, it is interesting how often I see Porsche and BMW's having cooling problems or fluid leaks at the track. The 5 series BMW (new and old) has an especially hard time at the track. One of the BMW guys freely admitted that while BMW's are fairly reliable, they are no match for a well built Japanese car.

My friend (who worked at the local Porsche/Audi/Jag dealership) bought a used (read almost new) Porsche 968 with only 40,000 miles on the clock. He drove the car like it was his baby and took extremely good care of it. Hell, we couldn't even eat or drink in the car. Anyway, after driving the car for 20,000 miles, the transmission detonated and if it wasn't for the extended warranty he purchased, he would have been out $7,000+.

Porsches obviously need a lot of money to keep them running. The cost of the parts and labor will bring a tear to your eye. My brother-in-law has one and he's selling it for that very reason.

I guess "mystique" costs money.

 

hey ITR, are you from clubsi.com?
I remember reading a post there about a guy wants to get a 350Z over his ITR..is that u?
by the way, welcome to this board!

 

I dont know. I drove a 1994 Integra GSR for three years from 1996-1999. Then I purchased a 1994 Porsche 968 that I drove from 1999 until now. I drove both cars through the Canadian winters. I can honestly say that the integra was a piece of crap that was in the shop way more often then the Porsche. I only had to do routine maintenence on the Porsche (granted it is expensive). On the Integra I had an oil leak, a bolt in the tranny snapped and caused $3,000 (canadian) damage, the rear wheel well was beginning to rust etc. It was also puffing out smoke when I floored it. I just recently sold the Porsche with 120,000km on it. I am very sad to see it go. I got offered more then I paid for it three years earlier and know that after 120,000 it would be harder and harder to get a fair buck for it...Plus, I knew if I sold it, there was always the 350 to fall back on. I am very excited for my 350 to arrive, but I would not say that Japanese cars are in all cases more reliable then European. My mother has also had a 1992 3 series cab, 1996 3 series coupe, 1999 528 and just recently purchased a 2002 530. Not once has any of her cars been in the shop for anything other then routine maintenence. Botoom line is...treat your car well and it will be reliable. I do not think that the fellow who had my integra before me was too kind on the car.

 

I've had my 1996 integra GSR since 1997 (bought new). It has run flawlessly except: 1) had to replace the radiator because it started leaking, and 2) replaced a cv joint boot.

What I really wanted to say is in these personal comparisons of reliability, I think only those people who bought the car NEW really have valid data. If you bought your car used, you generally have no idea how it has been treated. What might otherwise be a nice reliable car could have been terribly abused and end up seeming like a lemon. This holds true regardless of the manufacturer.

That being said, it is an accepted generalization that the main japanese automakers produce the most reliable cars overall.

To sum up, I hope that my 350Z will provide Boxster S performance with better interior ammenities and superior reliability.

Since we're all buying the Z brand-new, we'll really get to see how reliable this new Nissan is!

 

I bought my Porsche 911 new and treated it with only kid gloves. It was nothing but problems from the start. I have a friend (the guy who talked me into buying it) that has had four 911's in the last six years, and they've all cost him a fortune in maintenance and their reliability was as bad if not worse than mine. He now drives a big Mercedes with 140,000 miles on it, and he's had absolutely no problems.

I don't think Japanese cars are better than German cars. All I'm saying is that my brand new Porsche 911 was the worst car I've ever had. A manufacturer that charges that much for a car will not get my business twice if they screw up the first time. I currently have a 2002 Z06 that has been flawless since I purchased it new in October. It doesn't even rattle.

Is a Chevy better than Porsche? Most people would say no, but my Vette is a much better car than the Porsche was. Go figure.

 

$3,000 canadian? That's like the cost of a large popcorn and a soda at the movies.

 

Well I think everyone one of us can go through their experiences with reliability with this car or that car, but at the end of the day for every one satisfied customer there will probably be one dissatisfied customer. We can go back and forth and find that some people are brand loyal, some are reginional loyal (Japanese, European, Domestic), and some are just brand haters (I hate Ford, Dodge, Honda, etc.....). But at the end of the day pretty much every company has something good to say about, as well as something negative. Will we always have these conversations? Hell yeah, well until GM buys every other car company (I just picked GM for the hell of it btw) and then there's only one car company in the world. Otherwise, we can all say goods and bads but what really matters is how the owner of the vehicle likes their car. I've got 4 cars, waiting on my Z for my fifth. Do I like all of them? Yes! Do I think they are all perfect? Hell no! Will I ever find just one car that will replace all my other ones? Hell no (unless someone gives a 360 Modena then I'll give it serious consideration but even then probably not). What is the point of this? Say what you will about this or that, but in a couple of monthes it won't matter to many of us cause will be out driving our Zs . Until then all we can do is sit here and wait, talk about numbers, wait for some new rare or intersting stat or picture, and compare cars.

 

I'm glad many people see this from my perspective.

Christurismohk: no I dont post on Clubsi.com, personally I've found the board to be rather immature as a whole. I do post occasionally on honda-tech.com and s2ki.com

Reliability is another story. I almost see it as a game of luck. No matter how reliable a company makes a car, seems like some people will get one that breaks. So you play the percentages by knowing the facts. Just say 60% of GM's dont need major work in 5 years and 80% of Honda's dont need work in 5 years. This would explain why a GM would hold up great for one person and a Honda would break from another. One problem with trying to determine what car is reliable is that our perceptions of reliability come from the 70's and 80's when US automakers really did suck and the imports were much better. Also, the Japanese cars have changed b/c those made in the US are not up to the exacting standards of the same cars made in Japan.

 

actually u'r right on the forum, however, if u've been to several forums u'll realize all have the same problems, as the car u listed, i think all are good cars, so it always comes to the point that u like which car. Like me, i like the exterior of the boxster, but for me, if i have to spend that much money on getting a car with a "not that good" interior, no i won't. The Z3, i just don't believe bmw. For S2000, everything is good except the interior(same as boxster), if the 350z doesn't exist, i will probably go for a celica and do a few mods or go for a S2k. so i think they are all the same and which one u like the most will be the one u like and going to bash, but someone might say the 350 is just a nissan, but who care? as long as we like the car y do we have to care about the brand?

just my $.02