Do Boltons really Help?
#41
It depends on whether just gaining more HP on the dyno is more important or if performance is more important. I personally did all of my own mod installation and I have a lot of friends who are connected. So, I got a lot of my parts at cost and then put them on myself. I've spent less than a thousand dollars for all of my mods (not including tires and the new brakes I just got the other day-which aren't power adders). The difference I have noticed is in how usable the power is. Basically, the combinations of mods that I have has moved my powerband from the lower part of the RPM range up higher. So, now my acceleration is more linear, rather than peaky and then drops off after about 5500 RPMs. It pulls harder and harder the higher the RPMs go. So, again, it depends on what you want to accomplish. For me, taking it to the track it is a monster with the mods I've done, but if I dynoed it it may not be the most powerful NA Z on the road. It's all what you want to gain from your mods that matters.
#42
Originally Posted by upperguy
The bottom line is that Nissan also has to deal with emissions and tons of other regulations. So while nissan may employ the best engineers on the planet, it does not mean they use the extent of their knowledge on the Zed.
(P.S. sorry for my rant I wanted my first post to be something interesting)
This is the point he can't seem to understand.
#43
Originally Posted by welles
You're proceeding from a false assumption here - that aftermarket tuners have a larger R&D budget than a multinational corporation. Nissan has a depth of engineering talent that the aftermarket (and Porsche and Ferrari for that matter) can't hope to match. Further, their supplier relationships and volume buys mean that they get top quality and low price. Even HKS and Greddy can't compete on that level.
I stand by my original statement. The rice boys who spend big money on intakes and exhausts, etc. learn these lessons the hard way. Believe me - they'll only do it once.
I stand by my original statement. The rice boys who spend big money on intakes and exhausts, etc. learn these lessons the hard way. Believe me - they'll only do it once.
The advantage that Porsche, Ferrari, Masserati, etc. have is that they target a completely different market. A market generally less driven by cost and more driven by performance. So they can afford to put higher quality oem parts on a car since their target price is much higher. I can't believe you don't understand this.
The problem with your statement above is that I never said Nissan engineers don't have the ability to build a better car. I'm going back to engineering 101. You build the best vehicle for the price. Period. Just look back at the old generation Z's, Supras and RX-7s. They priced out of the market and sales dropped.
And as far as the comment regarding upgraded exhausts and intakes being rice that's simply ignorant. Not trying to start a flame war, but that is one of the dumbest comments I have read in these forums. And that's saying something given some of the stuff that goes flying around here at times.
#44
Whew! I think it just got a couple of degrees warmer in this thread! :-)
I agree with ROGUELITE and a few of the others who state that aftermarket can be much higher quality and/or performance gainers than OEM. One very simple example...the 350's intake. It is a hi-flow box design. Most people can look at this and immediately tell you that you are going to have much more air-flow restriction with this versus a pop-charger/cold-air intake design.
Also, car enthusiasts have been modifying their rides long before the "ricer" generation was born...where do you think all the "American Muscle" came from??? I guarantee you that Dodge, Chevy, Ford, Pontiac back in the good old days didn't manufacture their vehicles with the big blowers and bored out blocks. Modifications can come as cheap pieces of crap or as high-priced high quality manufactured examples of engineering genius.
I love my Z. I love to mod my Z. If you are against modding, well then, my advice is to just not login to this forum any more. But if you want advice, good or bad, about making your Z one of a kind, there is plety of it on this awesome forum.
Peace out Z-modders!!!
I agree with ROGUELITE and a few of the others who state that aftermarket can be much higher quality and/or performance gainers than OEM. One very simple example...the 350's intake. It is a hi-flow box design. Most people can look at this and immediately tell you that you are going to have much more air-flow restriction with this versus a pop-charger/cold-air intake design.
Also, car enthusiasts have been modifying their rides long before the "ricer" generation was born...where do you think all the "American Muscle" came from??? I guarantee you that Dodge, Chevy, Ford, Pontiac back in the good old days didn't manufacture their vehicles with the big blowers and bored out blocks. Modifications can come as cheap pieces of crap or as high-priced high quality manufactured examples of engineering genius.
I love my Z. I love to mod my Z. If you are against modding, well then, my advice is to just not login to this forum any more. But if you want advice, good or bad, about making your Z one of a kind, there is plety of it on this awesome forum.
Peace out Z-modders!!!
#45
I'm kinda in the middle here. Quality is a subjective matter. Aftermarket parts can be that of a great quality, but it doesn't neccessairly mean it overshadows factory parts, in terms of longevity. In simple terms, a stock z will be safter and will be more problem free, in comparison.. generally speaking.
#46
Originally Posted by Nexx
i love your honest opinions. even after going F/I, bert doesnt let it get to his head and gives honest and insightfull information.
My bolt-ons that gave me the NA dyno #'s in my sig were:
JWT pop-charger, Crawford Plenum, Kinetix (nonresonated) test pipes, Injen TD exhaust, UR crank pulley, and a technosquare ECU.
#47
i'm also in the > 5,000 n/a mods club. I could definately of gotten force fed by now if I had chose a different path. But now that I'm slowly going FI, i'm kinda glad I did n/a mods. the car is definately MUCH funner than stock and I also dont have to bite my nails wondering if the engine will go. I still am going to do a JWT clutch/fly, central 20 r&p gear, LSD, and most likely a UTEC N/A. The FI route is so expensive for the way I wanna do it (right the 1st time - IE engine build etc. *IMO) that while I save up the dough I'll still enjoy n/a modding the car and also learn to better effectively drive the car to it's potential. Sure i'll get beat on the street by a lot of souped up evo's sti's, what-not's but my time will come . I'm also still paying off the car so doing N/A mods seems a little wiser rather than really risking the motor going FI. Once it's payed off all hell will break loose
Last edited by Juztin; 04-06-2006 at 05:58 PM.
#48
Let me post up by first saying I hope I didn't offend anyone with my last post. I just have a hard time understanding why someone would say anyone with an upgraded exhaust or intake is a ricer. I think that is one term, myself included, that gets thrown out there so easily. And being that probably 90% of the people up here have, or plan to purchase, at least a pop charger, cai or upgraded exhaust... it would imply 90% of the folks up here in the forums are ricers. And that's just not true.
That said, i agree with Cannysage. There are good and bad aftermarket parts. In my opinion the aftermarket vendors and oem manufacturers drive one another. Each one keeps the other striving to achieve better and more efficient solutions to our cravings for performance and power. competition is a good thing. it's like that Lending Tree commercial... when manufacturers compete... we win.
That said, i agree with Cannysage. There are good and bad aftermarket parts. In my opinion the aftermarket vendors and oem manufacturers drive one another. Each one keeps the other striving to achieve better and more efficient solutions to our cravings for performance and power. competition is a good thing. it's like that Lending Tree commercial... when manufacturers compete... we win.
Last edited by ROGUELITE; 04-06-2006 at 06:46 PM.
#49
Originally Posted by ROGUELITE
Let me post up by first saying I hope I didn't offend anyone with my last post. I just have a hard time understanding why someone would say anyone with an upgraded exhaust or intake is a ricer. I think that is one term, myself included, that gets thrown out there so easily. And being that probably 90% of the people up here have, or plan to purchase, at least a pop charger, cai or upgraded exhaust... it would imply 90% of the folks up here in the forums are ricers. And that's just not true.
That said, i agree with Cannysage. There are good and bad aftermarket parts. In my opinion the aftermarket vendors and oem manufacturers drive one another. Each one keeps the other striving to achieve better and more efficient solutions to our cravings for performance and power. competition is a good thing. it's like that Lending Tree commercial... when manufacturers compete... we win.
That said, i agree with Cannysage. There are good and bad aftermarket parts. In my opinion the aftermarket vendors and oem manufacturers drive one another. Each one keeps the other striving to achieve better and more efficient solutions to our cravings for performance and power. competition is a good thing. it's like that Lending Tree commercial... when manufacturers compete... we win.
#50
Originally Posted by Nexx
those must have been some sh**y bolt ons and terrible tune. utec tuners can almost always get 10 to 15 whp on stock car. ive seen good N/A mods without cams get between 40 to 60 whp with a good tune. thats still not the 100whp your looking for but as bad as you make it out to be.
just show me 2 dynoes of a z. one baseline, and another showing it gaining 40-60 whp without cams. i highly doubt there are any.
#51
Originally Posted by welles
In general, aftermarket addons are of poorer quality than OEM, and offer minimal performance gains - nearly always significantly less than the manufacturer claims. In the specific case of the Z, the VQ motor is about at the limit of its' capability at 287/300 hp - the only way to get big gains is through FI, which will shorten the engine's life. Unless you're racing, the added HP isn't going to be of much use anyway - for the street, the Z already has all the power you can reasonably use.
#52
Originally Posted by DG350Z
I've spent 1,200 and gotten exhaust/intake/plenum/TPs -- dunno where people get that its "so expensive". If I gain 25 whp from those mods (which is very possible...) then thats 1200 bucks for 25 whp. FI will get you about 125 whp for 6-8K. Seems to me to be about the same $$ per HP but on a lower scale.
Your numbers are a little off for most FI setups...$6-8K is right in the range of my APS kit and with that bolted on a tuned I gained over 200whp...
#54
I personally don't like Boltons. Bolton, Lancashire, England has terrible food, Bolton University doesn't have a robust curriculum, and Michael Bolton the singer is a no-talent as$clown. Michael Bolton from Office Space was pretty kickas$ though.
Oh, you meant "bolt-ons". Woops!
:P
Oh, you meant "bolt-ons". Woops!
:P
#55
I'm keeping the Z N/A for the more linear powerband and responsive throttle. Plus, I auto-cross and road race and for me, pushing 400-500whp is just too much for a daily driver/weekend warrior.
I do believe the new Rev-Ups motors will be able to break into 300whp territory N/A. I'd be happy getting to around 320whp and running mid-12's.
I do believe the new Rev-Ups motors will be able to break into 300whp territory N/A. I'd be happy getting to around 320whp and running mid-12's.
#56
Base HP-232whp
Stillen supercharger, Amuse exhaust, Stillen test pipes, JWT intake= 349whp -On a dynapak 3000 so about 330whp on a dynojet (SOLD)
All my mods now- 278whp
Thats 46whp without a new tune for all the boltons in my sig.
Stillen supercharger, Amuse exhaust, Stillen test pipes, JWT intake= 349whp -On a dynapak 3000 so about 330whp on a dynojet (SOLD)
All my mods now- 278whp
Thats 46whp without a new tune for all the boltons in my sig.
#58
Originally Posted by Armitage
I do believe the new Rev-Ups motors will be able to break into 300whp territory N/A. I'd be happy getting to around 320whp and running mid-12's.
#59
Originally Posted by welles
In the specific case of the Z, the VQ motor is about at the limit of its' capability at 287/300 hp - the only way to get big gains is through FI, which will shorten the engine's life. Unless you're racing, the added HP isn't going to be of much use anyway - for the street, the Z already has all the power you can reasonably use.
I've been looking for a compelling **performance** reason to begin modding my NA engine, and so far haven't seen one.
Of course, modding isn't just about increasing hp/torque. People mod their engines for the same reasons they add body kits... to put their personal stamp on their ride. And that's cool!
But -- trying to be totally rational -- the only way I see to gain significant useable power is to go right to FI.
Prove me wrong...?
#60
Originally Posted by twinship
From what I've seen of Z owners' dyno results, the above is basically true.
I've been looking for a compelling **performance** reason to begin modding my NA engine, and so far haven't seen one.
Of course, modding isn't just about increasing hp/torque. People mod their engines for the same reasons they add body kits... to put their personal stamp on their ride. And that's cool!
But -- trying to be totally rational -- the only way I see to gain significant useable power is to go right to FI.
Prove me wrong...?
I've been looking for a compelling **performance** reason to begin modding my NA engine, and so far haven't seen one.
Of course, modding isn't just about increasing hp/torque. People mod their engines for the same reasons they add body kits... to put their personal stamp on their ride. And that's cool!
But -- trying to be totally rational -- the only way I see to gain significant useable power is to go right to FI.
Prove me wrong...?