Aviation Gas ???
04-28-2006, 02:50 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by cessna
Well said. Are you an A and P or an Navy air rat?
04-28-2006, 06:40 AM
#43
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Um..A-10? Navy? We have exactly zero of those. I'll hold off on my witty sarcasm, though, since I was not too specific in how I worded my last post.
So here's another clue:
I'm in the Navy. This plane flies off the carrier. It has props. It's not a COD.
So here's another clue:
I'm in the Navy. This plane flies off the carrier. It has props. It's not a COD.
04-28-2006, 07:12 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by Navygold
Um..A-10? Navy? We have exactly zero of those. I'll hold off on my witty sarcasm, though, since I was not too specific in how I worded my last post.
So here's another clue:
I'm in the Navy. This plane flies off the carrier. It has props. It's not a COD.
So here's another clue:
I'm in the Navy. This plane flies off the carrier. It has props. It's not a COD.
05-15-2006, 11:29 PM
#45
Aaaaaactually I disagree with many people on here.
In 2003 I was living in Venezuela when, as some of you may know, we had a huge nation-wide work strike to rebel against the Hugo Chavez regime. When I say 30 day strike, I mean it... No one went to work for a full month yet people still tried to get around and the lines at the gas stations were 8-14 hrs long. People camped out just to get a few liters of gas.
Back then we had a 1974 Piper Navajo Chieftain tucked away from the busy city and packed full of 800 liters of AV gas (130 octane leaded fuel).
Yeah we tried everything we could not to have to use that gas because in a 30 day strike you don't know how violent the situation might get.
Well to make the story shorter, we ended up taking a ride up to the private airport where we had the plane and drain 200 liters into a fuel drum and feeding it to:
2003 Mitsubishi Lancer
1991 Honda Legend (imported from Japan that's why its a Honda and not an Acura)
1998 Honda Legend
2003 Opel Astra coupe turbo (This car is not available here but its very similar to a Saab 9-3)
Of course we didn't just use the 130 octane gas by itself. We mixed it 50/50 or sometimes 60/40regular and all cars ran extremely well. So much so that we were complaining about having to go back to regular gas when the strike was over.
We saw the best results in my father's Opel Astra. I don't know if being turbo made it more accepting of the gas or what but that thing ROCKED with av gas!!! LOL
We still have the Legend and the Astra back home and they're both fine. We used 130 octane gas for over 30 days and it had no adverse effects on the vehicles. Cool little thing was looking at the exhaust how it burned white intead of black (too lean?).
Food for thought... My old man just bought a Toyota Prado back home and it holds 23 US gallons. Cost in Venezuela to fill it up all the way to the top? Try $3.33 TOTAL!!!
In 2003 I was living in Venezuela when, as some of you may know, we had a huge nation-wide work strike to rebel against the Hugo Chavez regime. When I say 30 day strike, I mean it... No one went to work for a full month yet people still tried to get around and the lines at the gas stations were 8-14 hrs long. People camped out just to get a few liters of gas.
Back then we had a 1974 Piper Navajo Chieftain tucked away from the busy city and packed full of 800 liters of AV gas (130 octane leaded fuel).
Yeah we tried everything we could not to have to use that gas because in a 30 day strike you don't know how violent the situation might get.
Well to make the story shorter, we ended up taking a ride up to the private airport where we had the plane and drain 200 liters into a fuel drum and feeding it to:
2003 Mitsubishi Lancer
1991 Honda Legend (imported from Japan that's why its a Honda and not an Acura)
1998 Honda Legend
2003 Opel Astra coupe turbo (This car is not available here but its very similar to a Saab 9-3)
Of course we didn't just use the 130 octane gas by itself. We mixed it 50/50 or sometimes 60/40regular and all cars ran extremely well. So much so that we were complaining about having to go back to regular gas when the strike was over.
We saw the best results in my father's Opel Astra. I don't know if being turbo made it more accepting of the gas or what but that thing ROCKED with av gas!!! LOL
We still have the Legend and the Astra back home and they're both fine. We used 130 octane gas for over 30 days and it had no adverse effects on the vehicles. Cool little thing was looking at the exhaust how it burned white intead of black (too lean?).
Food for thought... My old man just bought a Toyota Prado back home and it holds 23 US gallons. Cost in Venezuela to fill it up all the way to the top? Try $3.33 TOTAL!!!
05-22-2006, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tx77015ls1
the most common AVGAS is 100LL (Low Lead) 100 octane but still has lead in it
Why thankyou for reading the WHOLE THREAD!
05-23-2006, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by tecni
no, the most common AV gas (for piston engines) is between 120 and 130 octane and full of lead.
FYI the thread is about wether or not the AV gas will damage his car.
FYI the thread is about wether or not the AV gas will damage his car.
What the hell are you talking about????
Most common Av Gas????? Err.... There`s only 100LL which is called AvGas. Then you have JetA,B,C.
Avgas (100LL) is 100 octane rated, not 120-130!
05-23-2006, 07:20 AM
#53
I know for a fact that the gas we were using was 130 octane. Not jet ABC. If in fact the fuel they use here fror aviation purposes is only 100 octane then this further backs up my point that it will not harm the engine. We get 93 at the regular pumps, japan I believe has 97-100 octane in almost every gas station and you don't see them blowing up their cars.
05-23-2006, 07:37 AM
#54
100LL (Low Lead) is ONLY sold in Canada!
I didn't say it... SHELL COMBUSTIBLES said it.
Aviation Gasoline (AVGAS)
Avgas is gasoline fuel for reciprocating piston engined aircraft. As with all gasolines, Avgas is very volatile and is extremely flammable at normal operating temperatures. Procedures and equipment for safe handling of this product must therefore be of the highest order.
Avgas grades are defined primarily by their octane rating. Two ratings are applied to aviation gasolines (the lean mixture rating and the rich mixture rating) which results in a multiple numbering system, e.g. Avgas 100/130 (in this case the lean mixture performance rating is 100 and the rich mixture rating is 130).
In the past, there were many different grades of aviation gasoline in general use, e.g. 80/87, 91/96, 100/130, 108/135 and 115/145. However, with decreasing demand these have been rationalised down to one principle grade, Avgas 100/130. To avoid confusion and to minimise errors in handling aviation gasoline, it is common practice to designate the grade by just the lean mixture performance, i.e Avgas 100/130 becomes Avgas 100.
More recently, an additional grade was introduced to allow one fuel to be used in engines originally designed for grades with lower lead contents: this grade is called Avgas 100LL, the LL standing for 'low lead'. Only 100LL is sold in Canada.
Aviation gasoline is produced to the latest version of the Canadian Standard CAN/CGSB-3.25 Aviation Gasoline.
In specifying requirements for aircraft piston-engine fuel the principle objective is to ensure that the fuel has satisfactory combustion qualities. The most important property is the anti-knock rating, but others such as the distillation range and volatility are also important because of their influence on mixture distribution and cold starting. Other specification items are included to ensure that the fuel has a good storage life, will not corrode engine or fuel system components and can be satisfactorily supplied to the engine under all operating conditions.
All equipment and facilities handling Avgas are colour coded and display prominently the API markings denoting the actual grade carried. Currently the two major grades in use internationally are Avgas 100LL and Avgas 100. To ease identification the fuels are dyed, i.e. Avgas 100LL is coloured blue, while Avgas 100 is coloured green.
Avgas fueling nozzles for overwing dispensing are painted red. To help prevent the possibility of jet fuel being supplied to a piston engined aircraft. Nozzles for jet fuel (painted black) are normally a different shape and larger diameter than the aperture on most aircraft Avgas tanks.
Shell does not supply or recommend motor gasoline for use in light aircraft.
I didn't say it... SHELL COMBUSTIBLES said it.
Aviation Gasoline (AVGAS)
Avgas is gasoline fuel for reciprocating piston engined aircraft. As with all gasolines, Avgas is very volatile and is extremely flammable at normal operating temperatures. Procedures and equipment for safe handling of this product must therefore be of the highest order.
Avgas grades are defined primarily by their octane rating. Two ratings are applied to aviation gasolines (the lean mixture rating and the rich mixture rating) which results in a multiple numbering system, e.g. Avgas 100/130 (in this case the lean mixture performance rating is 100 and the rich mixture rating is 130).
In the past, there were many different grades of aviation gasoline in general use, e.g. 80/87, 91/96, 100/130, 108/135 and 115/145. However, with decreasing demand these have been rationalised down to one principle grade, Avgas 100/130. To avoid confusion and to minimise errors in handling aviation gasoline, it is common practice to designate the grade by just the lean mixture performance, i.e Avgas 100/130 becomes Avgas 100.
More recently, an additional grade was introduced to allow one fuel to be used in engines originally designed for grades with lower lead contents: this grade is called Avgas 100LL, the LL standing for 'low lead'. Only 100LL is sold in Canada.
Aviation gasoline is produced to the latest version of the Canadian Standard CAN/CGSB-3.25 Aviation Gasoline.
In specifying requirements for aircraft piston-engine fuel the principle objective is to ensure that the fuel has satisfactory combustion qualities. The most important property is the anti-knock rating, but others such as the distillation range and volatility are also important because of their influence on mixture distribution and cold starting. Other specification items are included to ensure that the fuel has a good storage life, will not corrode engine or fuel system components and can be satisfactorily supplied to the engine under all operating conditions.
All equipment and facilities handling Avgas are colour coded and display prominently the API markings denoting the actual grade carried. Currently the two major grades in use internationally are Avgas 100LL and Avgas 100. To ease identification the fuels are dyed, i.e. Avgas 100LL is coloured blue, while Avgas 100 is coloured green.
Avgas fueling nozzles for overwing dispensing are painted red. To help prevent the possibility of jet fuel being supplied to a piston engined aircraft. Nozzles for jet fuel (painted black) are normally a different shape and larger diameter than the aperture on most aircraft Avgas tanks.
Shell does not supply or recommend motor gasoline for use in light aircraft.
05-23-2006, 09:34 AM
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Err... again, your slightly mistaken
100LL is sold in the USA. (Trust me I`m looking at my fuel bill from a flight to Vermont, and it does state that I purchaced 57 gals of 100LL!) The coulour of it was blue, and not green.... read further....
The facts:
100LL is currently the most readily available fuel. The octane rating is 100, and it has less lead than 100/130 and 80/87 fuels. Its blue in colour and is designed to be used in engines originally designed to use 100/130 and 80/87 fuels. For some aircraft designed to use 80/87 fuel, valves may have to be changed.
100/130 fuel is rated 100 octane lean and has a rich mixture rating of 130. It was designed to be used in high compression aircraft engines. It is green in colour and has been discontinued in many countries due to regulations regarding lead content.
The above was taken directly from Transport Canada`s web site.
Do me a favour, if you want to debate, keep my spelling, and Nationality out of it. Neither have anyplace here buddy.
100LL is sold in the USA. (Trust me I`m looking at my fuel bill from a flight to Vermont, and it does state that I purchaced 57 gals of 100LL!) The coulour of it was blue, and not green.... read further....
The facts:
100LL is currently the most readily available fuel. The octane rating is 100, and it has less lead than 100/130 and 80/87 fuels. Its blue in colour and is designed to be used in engines originally designed to use 100/130 and 80/87 fuels. For some aircraft designed to use 80/87 fuel, valves may have to be changed.
100/130 fuel is rated 100 octane lean and has a rich mixture rating of 130. It was designed to be used in high compression aircraft engines. It is green in colour and has been discontinued in many countries due to regulations regarding lead content.
The above was taken directly from Transport Canada`s web site.
Do me a favour, if you want to debate, keep my spelling, and Nationality out of it. Neither have anyplace here buddy.
05-23-2006, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tecni
If you'd like me to not crack on your nationality then start by omitting ignorat remarks like: "What the HELL are you talking about".
I havn't cracked on your spelling, I just find the "eh" to be quite amusing.
USE AV GAS and hawl A$$!!!
I havn't cracked on your spelling, I just find the "eh" to be quite amusing.
USE AV GAS and hawl A$$!!!
The fact of the matter here, is ''What the hell were you talking about''??? Such a statement may deserve a response, but bringing in Nationality and spelling is just a cheap shot.
If you cant handle someone asking you such a question, and cant manage to reply in a insitefull manner, then what else are you doing other than taking the ''Easyway out''???
This wasent suppost to have become a pissing match, but hey, being a ATPL (Airline transport pilot licence holder) with over 3500 hours of PIC expirience,owning 2 planes, and operating both of them in a commerical operation.... I guess I dont know what I`m talking about right?!??
05-23-2006, 11:46 AM
#59
Ok here you go Mr. Pilot.
FACT:
In venezuela they have 130 octane avgas. Too much lead content? They don't care enought to go with 100LL.
FACT:
I was born and raised in Venezuela and my father owned a Piper Navajo. I grew up around it and learned every bit about it. My great uncle had a Cessna Citation II so I also know a little bit about jets and his son (my cousin) had a Cessna 172 that I learned to fly and used to go on short trips in.
Fact:
I used 130 octane AVgas for 30 days on an astra, 2 legends and a Mitsu lancer and none of the three cars were damaged by using higher octane fuel.
Fact:
Modern cars are computer controlled to retard your timing if the octane levels are too high.
Fact:
Lower octane fuels explode more violently and are more likely to detonate under less compression. THat's why we prefer higher octane, to ensure that the mixture ignites with the spark from the spark plug and not by the heat produced when compressing gases.
Which point here would you like to debate?
The discussion here is wether or not it will break the car and unless you've been sneeking gas out of the airport and feeding it to your cars, you would not know much about the effects it would have on the vehicles.
I don't doubt you know your sheeehat about planes but read the title of the thread and try to stick to the main point here.
FACT:
In venezuela they have 130 octane avgas. Too much lead content? They don't care enought to go with 100LL.
FACT:
I was born and raised in Venezuela and my father owned a Piper Navajo. I grew up around it and learned every bit about it. My great uncle had a Cessna Citation II so I also know a little bit about jets and his son (my cousin) had a Cessna 172 that I learned to fly and used to go on short trips in.
Fact:
I used 130 octane AVgas for 30 days on an astra, 2 legends and a Mitsu lancer and none of the three cars were damaged by using higher octane fuel.
Fact:
Modern cars are computer controlled to retard your timing if the octane levels are too high.
Fact:
Lower octane fuels explode more violently and are more likely to detonate under less compression. THat's why we prefer higher octane, to ensure that the mixture ignites with the spark from the spark plug and not by the heat produced when compressing gases.
Which point here would you like to debate?
The discussion here is wether or not it will break the car and unless you've been sneeking gas out of the airport and feeding it to your cars, you would not know much about the effects it would have on the vehicles.
I don't doubt you know your sheeehat about planes but read the title of the thread and try to stick to the main point here.
05-23-2006, 12:28 PM
#60
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I am here as the US rep for pilots!
100LL is the most reaily avl and for our purposes of this discussion is what will most likely be used. LL is low in comparison to 100 the green fuel you referance as 130 baseud upon the standards you grade the fuel at in your country! The idea behind this choice for use within a car, would be very poor!
Personal Experiance required to argue beyond these points!
I recommend that you do not use av-gas ever in a modern fuel injected engine!
2 samples both with same result!
In a turbo charged vehicle you are right the higher octane will reduce chances of detonation, however will not give you more power! Taking advantage of this gap in detonation allows you to change timing and adv it to produce more power much likely having a tune for race gas and pump!
Downsides to using avgas for prolonged periods are as follows...
02 sensor (well known) failure
Fuel injector failure due to lead buildup,
92 Honda Civic (hes is an idiot had no reason to run it just wanted to try it and liked how his exhaust was always white & KABOOM) His #3 cylnder wall was so destroyed look like someone took a chisel to the motor and hacked away at it!
valves in the head will buildup with lead content and eventually fail (91 1st gen DSM ) KABOOM
on a turbo setup, will buildup lead on the valves and eventually they will stick open!!!! KABOOM (happened twice from local guys)
the high flashpoint of the fuel will not produce the power gains you think it should based upon the position of the piston in relation to TDC.
Techni, as for the fact 100LL is the most widely used and dispersed non jet fuel in the world, hands down.
Cessna is correct, just by using reasoning!!! In a modern engine it is not smart to run avgas for an extended period!
IF you want the bost in octane and cant afford a VP race fuel, add a few gallons to your tank, bu after that tank is empty clean out the injectors with some additive and run pump for a few tanks to clean the lead content off the sensors.
To be a pilot we all have to know our **** about aircraft, especially the ones we fly...
100LL is the most reaily avl and for our purposes of this discussion is what will most likely be used. LL is low in comparison to 100 the green fuel you referance as 130 baseud upon the standards you grade the fuel at in your country! The idea behind this choice for use within a car, would be very poor!
Personal Experiance required to argue beyond these points!
I recommend that you do not use av-gas ever in a modern fuel injected engine!
2 samples both with same result!
In a turbo charged vehicle you are right the higher octane will reduce chances of detonation, however will not give you more power! Taking advantage of this gap in detonation allows you to change timing and adv it to produce more power much likely having a tune for race gas and pump!
Downsides to using avgas for prolonged periods are as follows...
02 sensor (well known) failure
Fuel injector failure due to lead buildup,
92 Honda Civic (hes is an idiot had no reason to run it just wanted to try it and liked how his exhaust was always white & KABOOM) His #3 cylnder wall was so destroyed look like someone took a chisel to the motor and hacked away at it!
valves in the head will buildup with lead content and eventually fail (91 1st gen DSM ) KABOOM
on a turbo setup, will buildup lead on the valves and eventually they will stick open!!!! KABOOM (happened twice from local guys)
the high flashpoint of the fuel will not produce the power gains you think it should based upon the position of the piston in relation to TDC.
Techni, as for the fact 100LL is the most widely used and dispersed non jet fuel in the world, hands down.
Cessna is correct, just by using reasoning!!! In a modern engine it is not smart to run avgas for an extended period!
IF you want the bost in octane and cant afford a VP race fuel, add a few gallons to your tank, bu after that tank is empty clean out the injectors with some additive and run pump for a few tanks to clean the lead content off the sensors.
To be a pilot we all have to know our **** about aircraft, especially the ones we fly...