350Z vs. S2000
07-08-2002, 09:35 AM
#21
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Originally posted by S2kRob
As for the torque issue, what you guys are forgetting is that the 350Z redlines at 6600rpm, and the S2000 redlines at 9000rpm, so you can run 36% lower gearing on the S2000 to match the 350Z's speed in gears. 36% lower gearing = 36% torque multiplication at the wheels, which narrows the torque gap considerably.
As for the torque issue, what you guys are forgetting is that the 350Z redlines at 6600rpm, and the S2000 redlines at 9000rpm, so you can run 36% lower gearing on the S2000 to match the 350Z's speed in gears. 36% lower gearing = 36% torque multiplication at the wheels, which narrows the torque gap considerably.
I have ridden in the S2000. It is a great car. Fun to ride in. The torque was a bit weak, though. It sounded great, but didn't really put me in the seat at all. I would rather have lots of torque at lower rpm than have to drop the clutch at 6000rpm+ to get the torque feeling using VTEC.
This is not a bash. I really did like the S2000. I just want torque.
Regards,
Todd
07-08-2002, 10:01 AM
#22
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Originally posted by FstQban
With the V-Tech technology in it, the S200 does not offer every day performance anywhere close to what the Z does. I do hope however that the shifter is as precise and short as the Honda masterpiece. Drivingwise I think they are both close, though the Z will offer the same heavy solid feel of the last gen., not the light twitchy feel of the S200!
With the V-Tech technology in it, the S200 does not offer every day performance anywhere close to what the Z does. I do hope however that the shifter is as precise and short as the Honda masterpiece. Drivingwise I think they are both close, though the Z will offer the same heavy solid feel of the last gen., not the light twitchy feel of the S200!
07-08-2002, 05:28 PM
#25
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Having purchased a S2000 back in Dec 99, I can tell you several things about the car: First, it's a very fun car to drive, if and only if, you know how to drive a car hard, and you don't mind the loud engine. Second, the car has a factory defective 2 gear grind problem, Honda did a service bulletin, but most owners didn't get hear about it or get the fix, so there are a lot of S2000's out there that won't make high RPM shifts to second without making a horrible grind noise...sadly, most owners will not address this problem or admit it even exists. Overall, it's a good car, if you get the synchro problem fixed. I'm partial to the 350Z now (can't wait to see the convertible), they left a lot of room for mods, I'm thinking Stillen will be able to get another 20-30HP out of the VQ without FI or turbo, while no one has been able to get much more power out of the S2000, without adding a Comptech Supercharger.
07-08-2002, 06:21 PM
#26
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The S2000 is a nice car, but its not really for me. I checked one out at the Honda dealer a few months ago and it was just too small of a car for me. Plus, they were still charging over sticker for it and they wouldnt let you test drive it without a down payment. What a joke!
The biggest reason I dont think I'd like one is the lack of torque. The car I drive now has 530 lbs. ft. of torque at 2400 rpm. It has to be the perfect daily driver. I love the effortless torque. You don't have to rev it over 3000 rpm unless you really want to move, and going up steep hills doesnt phase it one bit. I hope the Z will have some of the same characteristics. I hate driving a small displacement 4 cylinder where you have to keep it on the boil to accelerate up a hill, or downshift 2 or 3 gears to pass on the highway. For a daily driven street car, torque is king.
The biggest reason I dont think I'd like one is the lack of torque. The car I drive now has 530 lbs. ft. of torque at 2400 rpm. It has to be the perfect daily driver. I love the effortless torque. You don't have to rev it over 3000 rpm unless you really want to move, and going up steep hills doesnt phase it one bit. I hope the Z will have some of the same characteristics. I hate driving a small displacement 4 cylinder where you have to keep it on the boil to accelerate up a hill, or downshift 2 or 3 gears to pass on the highway. For a daily driven street car, torque is king.
07-08-2002, 06:36 PM
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I'm sure the S2000 is a very nice sports car. I love driving them in GT3 but I just don't like convertibles and I think they are charging more than the car is worth. What reason does Honda have for making this car limited production? Are they hand built or something? If it is simply to drive up the price and make the car more exclusive that is reason enough for me not to do business with Honda (at least on this car).
07-08-2002, 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by JDZ
What reason does Honda have for making this car limited production? Are they hand built or something? If it is simply to drive up the price and make the car more exclusive that is reason enough for me not to do business with Honda (at least on this car).
What reason does Honda have for making this car limited production? Are they hand built or something? If it is simply to drive up the price and make the car more exclusive that is reason enough for me not to do business with Honda (at least on this car).
Honda is not an American car company and they don't think like one. America's answer is 'just keep making them, if we can't sell them, well mark 'em cheap and sell 'em quick and the dealer won't make any money.'
Nissan is going to try to sell 30,000+ 350Zs in the first year alone. That's going to be tough for them to accomplish. Sure, it's easy to generate hype and get 6400 preorders, but then what happens? In December, do you really think people are going to be lined up waiting for the next 350Z's to show up so they can drive them home in the snow and rain? I don't think so.
Between the G35, G35C, 350Z -- there are a lot of cars to be sold that will meet many people's needs. And that's just Nissan. So who is to say, but you can't blame Honda for good business sense. They do it with the Oddysey, Pilot and S2000. Keep production just behind demand to keep the price at MSRP or higher. A dealer selling 10 cars at MSRP can do as well or better than a dealer selling 20 cars at just over invoice.
07-08-2002, 07:07 PM
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I can't wait to hear reviews of the Z from you S2000 owners. It seems like a lot of people were or are trying to decide between these cars, including myself (and a good friend). My friend and I both went with the Z's...basically I talked him in to it..heh. We both drive integra Type R's now, and we're looking for something with a little more grunt.
I'll be really curious to hear straight out comparos from people that live with both cars day in and day out. I think they are both amazing cars for different reasons. The whole torque debate is an endless one. I've personally never owned a bigger displacement car, so I'm really psyched to try something new. Based on a few other cars I've driven and ridden in (911, M3, vettes, supra turbo, etc.) I have a feeling that I will like the engine characteristics of the Z much better than a high revving inline 4 like I own now. I simply don't get to rev it as much as I like on a day to day basis...rarely actually. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what people think after putting some miles on their Z's...should be fun.
I'll be really curious to hear straight out comparos from people that live with both cars day in and day out. I think they are both amazing cars for different reasons. The whole torque debate is an endless one. I've personally never owned a bigger displacement car, so I'm really psyched to try something new. Based on a few other cars I've driven and ridden in (911, M3, vettes, supra turbo, etc.) I have a feeling that I will like the engine characteristics of the Z much better than a high revving inline 4 like I own now. I simply don't get to rev it as much as I like on a day to day basis...rarely actually. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what people think after putting some miles on their Z's...should be fun.
07-08-2002, 07:18 PM
#30
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Originally posted by ITZBITZ
Honda is not an American car company and they don't think like one. America's answer is 'just keep making them, if we can't sell them, well mark 'em cheap and sell 'em quick and the dealer won't make any money.'
Honda is not an American car company and they don't think like one. America's answer is 'just keep making them, if we can't sell them, well mark 'em cheap and sell 'em quick and the dealer won't make any money.'
The reason the American car companies can offer these rebates is because they are mass producing cars which makes it cheaper to make each car. The more you make the cheaper it gets because your initial R&D investment, factory tooling, etc. stay constant.
If Honda is only limiting production to keep cars selling at MSRP, screw them. I will vote with my wallet and show them that I prefer mass produced products so that it keeps my cost down. I would rather deal with an American company or a business like Nissan that understands this.
07-08-2002, 07:22 PM
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I've read that the S2000 is hand built, It may be at the same place that builds the NSX. That doesn't make it any better, but it keeps supply low and may help resale down the road. It is fun to drive, but it doesn't have the latest bells and wistles the Z has. Such as TC, Stability control, brake force distribution, and drive by wire. Some might not care for these feaures, but in this price range its almost unheard of.
Also I kove the sound of the engine, but I'm afraid it may not hold up as well as a more relaxed, bigger displacement engine. I mean the piston speed is faster than a F1 cars.
Also I kove the sound of the engine, but I'm afraid it may not hold up as well as a more relaxed, bigger displacement engine. I mean the piston speed is faster than a F1 cars.
07-08-2002, 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by BigBadBuford
The car I drive now has 530 lbs. ft. of torque at 2400 rpm. It has to be the perfect daily driver. I love the effortless torque.
The car I drive now has 530 lbs. ft. of torque at 2400 rpm. It has to be the perfect daily driver. I love the effortless torque.
07-08-2002, 07:32 PM
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Seems to me that the S2000 and the 350Z are very different cars and really like comparing apples and oranges. The S2000 is more of a throwback to older sports cars that did not have lots of torque but handled supurbly. Both are great. Its a matter of which kind of car best suits you.
07-09-2002, 04:49 AM
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To clear up some misinformation...
The Honda S2000 is mostly hand built in Honda's exclusive Takanazawa Plant in Tochigi, Japan, the same factory that produces the Honda/Acura NSX. For the most part, it is completely hand built minus the painting process.
The S2000 was never developed for mass production. It is a limited production roaster meant to celebrate Honda's 50th Anniversary. The first year it was released in 2000, many dealers were marking up the price, since it was so rare and in such high demand. This was just inevitable. It's called market conditions. Same with the new Z. Some dealers are marking it up to $5K from what I understand. Nowadays, most Honda dealers have come back to reality and selling the S2000 for MSRP, some even less. I got my 02 for $1k under MSRP. I suspect that the new Z will head the same route.
And I'm sorry but I rather MUCH prefer and pay top dollar for a limited production, hand built, high quality car in the S2000 then your normal, everyday mass produced low quality domestic car if I had to choose. In the end, it comes down to personal preference and what's more important. Quality vs Price.
The Honda S2000 is mostly hand built in Honda's exclusive Takanazawa Plant in Tochigi, Japan, the same factory that produces the Honda/Acura NSX. For the most part, it is completely hand built minus the painting process.
The S2000 was never developed for mass production. It is a limited production roaster meant to celebrate Honda's 50th Anniversary. The first year it was released in 2000, many dealers were marking up the price, since it was so rare and in such high demand. This was just inevitable. It's called market conditions. Same with the new Z. Some dealers are marking it up to $5K from what I understand. Nowadays, most Honda dealers have come back to reality and selling the S2000 for MSRP, some even less. I got my 02 for $1k under MSRP. I suspect that the new Z will head the same route.
And I'm sorry but I rather MUCH prefer and pay top dollar for a limited production, hand built, high quality car in the S2000 then your normal, everyday mass produced low quality domestic car if I had to choose. In the end, it comes down to personal preference and what's more important. Quality vs Price.
07-09-2002, 05:46 AM
#38
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Re: Hahaahaaa...
Originally posted by TwinTurboZX
Please don't put the s2000 in the same sentece with Ferrari.
Please don't put the s2000 in the same sentece with Ferrari.
07-09-2002, 06:07 AM
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Oh yeah, just to let you all know, the main reason I didn't buy the Z was because I wanted a car for this summer, and I just wasn't sure about preordering after driving a G35. Now I've got a great sports car and can sit in the sidelines and watch the flood of hot new sportscars hit the market and see how they stack up. Should be fun!