question about shifting into first
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
From: nc
Originally Posted by roast
It was for your information since apparently you are too fckin stupid to drive your car to begin. You need to go back to drivers ed and learn to drive you fckin tool. Post your fckin issues wanting help and then flame like the rest of these idiots. fckin unreal.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Originally Posted by roast
Our first gear has a synchro just like 2nd-6th. It's hard to get into first while rolling because you aren't double clutching AND rev-matching. You have to get your tranny up to speed before you can select first, or else it will be very hard to get into gear, and you will also hear the synchro whine the harder you try.
Pretend you're in second gear @ 15mph and want to get in first. Push the clutch in - select neutral - release the clutch - rev the motor closely to the rev-match point - push the clutch in again and select first.
It should slide right into gear. You should never have to force the shifter into gear.
Hope that helps. Enjoy.
Pretend you're in second gear @ 15mph and want to get in first. Push the clutch in - select neutral - release the clutch - rev the motor closely to the rev-match point - push the clutch in again and select first.
It should slide right into gear. You should never have to force the shifter into gear.
Hope that helps. Enjoy.
A big plus one on that. shifting at 10-15 mph into 1st is way to fast.
There have been rare instances when shifting into 1st at 15 mph would have given me great acceleration out of a ultra tight slow corners but it's not like I'm racing somebody, so it's not important enough to risk grinding it.
There have been rare instances when shifting into 1st at 15 mph would have given me great acceleration out of a ultra tight slow corners but it's not like I'm racing somebody, so it's not important enough to risk grinding it.
Last edited by Chad68; Oct 18, 2006 at 02:16 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: Dallas, Georgia
Um...interesting thread. Not trying to **** anybody off, but I do it pretty regularly in traffic. Pretty standard driving technique. The reason people don't do it much anymore is because of these things called synchros. However, if you don't want to lug second gear at 1,500 or so rpm, up a hill, and you are doing over 5 mph, better to shift back to first. Rev matcing just keeps the grinding noise at bay, and prevents any possible damage from said grinding noise.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,595
Likes: 0
From: Hood Canal, WA.
Frustrating I'm sure. You just want some info on whether your car is normal or not. Well, I went out and tried downshifting into 1st at different speeds. 30 mph was the fastest that it seemed likely I could down shift to first without causing undue revving, it went in without problems at about 25 mph. I think the double-clutching thing is BS. I may be wrong, but I've had 40+ years of driving manual transmissions and the whole reason of synchros is so you don't need to double clutch...or so I think. I don't ever downshift to first except when entering a drive situation where I think I'll be staying in 1st for awhile..rare. I never cause anything mechanical to do anything forcefully unless I know it is already screwed up and requires it. This goes for chainsaws as well as manual transmissions. Based upon what came naturally in my car (2006 6 spd.) you may have a tired syncro in 1st. If so, I wouldn't worry about it since it probably isn't something that is worth what it costs to remedy. Your 1st synchro still works, but not apparently very well. Just some feedback for a very reasonable question.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Spain
FIRST GEAR ONLY CAN BE USED FOR START MOVING THE CAR. ONLY FOR THIS PURPOSE. NEVER CHANGE FROM 2ND TO 1ST!!!!!!!!
That´s elemental in manual transmision!!!!! You can brake transmision (not in the moment, but in a near future) if you reduce to first gear.
That´s elemental in manual transmision!!!!! You can brake transmision (not in the moment, but in a near future) if you reduce to first gear.
New Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
From: x
Hello,
It's been answered here a couple times, but yeah, double clutching should let you get into 1st, though 1st is the hardest gear to get into sometimes, in large part due to the size of the step / the speed change in the tranny. Practice it slowly, just rolling around at low speeds and see how far you have to rev to get into gear. You can zing the motor up a few thousand rpms in neutral while you're rolling at 10 mph, and then gently but firmly press the lever towards first. As the right RPMs show up, the lever will pop into gear. Once you get a feel for how easily it goes in, you can start associating that feel while looking for the right RPMs while quickly double clutching.
A few race teams ago (Sheehan Motor Racing), my driver (Gary Sheehan) and I (his crew chief) were debating proper technique for double clutching. We both knew he was doing it right, but we disagreed on what he was doing (the question was actually whether his heel was floating the whole time or whether he rested it). Heh, we made a video and now it's one of the most frequently cited footbox videos on the internet:
http://teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox%20Small.wmv
Of course, I'll get similar video in the Zs - if nothing else, it's useful for figuring out why brake pressure drops during cornering (drivers tend to lift pressure on the brake pedal while they're blipping the gas, during heel-toe - try it sometime - do max braking right under ABS and try downshifting with heel-toe and concentrate on whether you're easing off on the brake).
Joel
It's been answered here a couple times, but yeah, double clutching should let you get into 1st, though 1st is the hardest gear to get into sometimes, in large part due to the size of the step / the speed change in the tranny. Practice it slowly, just rolling around at low speeds and see how far you have to rev to get into gear. You can zing the motor up a few thousand rpms in neutral while you're rolling at 10 mph, and then gently but firmly press the lever towards first. As the right RPMs show up, the lever will pop into gear. Once you get a feel for how easily it goes in, you can start associating that feel while looking for the right RPMs while quickly double clutching.
A few race teams ago (Sheehan Motor Racing), my driver (Gary Sheehan) and I (his crew chief) were debating proper technique for double clutching. We both knew he was doing it right, but we disagreed on what he was doing (the question was actually whether his heel was floating the whole time or whether he rested it). Heh, we made a video and now it's one of the most frequently cited footbox videos on the internet:
http://teamsmr.com/movies/Footbox%20Small.wmv
Of course, I'll get similar video in the Zs - if nothing else, it's useful for figuring out why brake pressure drops during cornering (drivers tend to lift pressure on the brake pedal while they're blipping the gas, during heel-toe - try it sometime - do max braking right under ABS and try downshifting with heel-toe and concentrate on whether you're easing off on the brake).
Joel
Originally Posted by roast
If you don't understand the mechanics of it then you shouldn't pretend like you know what you're talking about. I do understand the mechanics of it - and I've been driving sports cars for a long time. A lot manual trannys don't even have a first gear synchro.
There is nothing wrong with shifting to first if you do it properly - the way I just explained. I do it all the time.
The reason for doing it is for maximum acceleration after having slowed down. 2nd gear @ 15mph is more than fast enough to stay in 2nd if you're not in a hurry.
There is nothing wrong with shifting to first if you do it properly - the way I just explained. I do it all the time.
The reason for doing it is for maximum acceleration after having slowed down. 2nd gear @ 15mph is more than fast enough to stay in 2nd if you're not in a hurry.
granted I have an '03, but I have a similar problem to o.p.'s. for example, say for whatever reason, I am slowing down to about 1 or 2 mph to check traffic before turning down a road perpendicular to the one I am on....I can't get the btich into 1st! I really have to push hard. And I've already had my tranny replaced once - only like a few thousand miles ago. Sometimes it's from a complete stop, and it just won't go. So I can understand the possibility he just has a defunct tranny or something like I do.
Originally Posted by synth19
Technically, if you're double clutching, you're moving from neutral to first, not from second. I never downshift to first gear, geneally, it's just not a good idea.
My recommendation is to NEVER EVER EVER under any circumstance downshift into first gear before coming to a stop or very close to it.
When I got my first fast car (02 wrx), I downshifted into 1st constantly while moving. You know what happened? My synchronizer decided to stop working around 50-60k miles. Its hard to push the shifter into 1st gear for a reason, you're wearing your syncro down.
The ONLY time you can do it is with a good double clutch which isn't easy for new clutch beginners.
My advice: Don't do it. I personally always shift into 2nd then into first gear when at a complete stop. It seems to take the stress off the drivetrain. If you notice even at a dead stop, it still is hesitant to go into first, going into 2nd then first seems to take that tension off the gears. Technically, since the driveshaft isn't spinning, the RPM's would have to be at zero for a perfect shift, so theres a bit of tension due to the DS not spinning but your flywheel is, but clutching into 2nd then first seems to work great. Or just wait a few moments with the clutch in before shifting
Last edited by page04Z; Oct 10, 2007 at 06:58 PM.