I think because nissan needs money they are willing to saturate the market with Z's. This is a cash grab that can have negative results as I have seen with corvettes and PT's. I went to a dealer that had 40 corvettes on hand and was marking them down $4,000. I think it is now a fact that people will not but american cars unless they are given some type of incentive(except the thunderbird and the SVT cobra), I can see this happening with the altima and indeed all nissans. I guess the american cars have this price structure built into the MSRP, so that there is still some profit made by selling at invoice. If nissan had the nerve like Honda with the S2000 to put a celing on production like 15,000 a year the Z would be sold at or above MSRP.

Look at another example, the M3. BMW can make $20K on each one it sells, but they are still hard to come by. If they ramped up production to double the current number they would start to show up on dealer lots and you could shop around and get a better deal.

So why am I complaining if this means we can buy Z's for a discount? well it has negative impact on resale value. The S2000 is a champ while the Z06 is a chump. But if we plan on keeping our Z's a long time it will be a good thing to have a million out in the world so parts cars are not hard to find.

 

Precisely what I was worried about plus a little more... I want my car to be SOMEWHAT unique. Witha shitload of them on the road I can guarantee you won't stand out past 1 year ;-). Well... gotta take the good with the bad, Z until GT-R.

 

I used to have a Z3, it was rare for about 2 years. I think they have sold like 120,000 so far. Still I don't see them everyday, but consider the S2000 is more like 18,000 cars so far.

I'm not saying I want the Z to be as rare as the S2000 or the M3. I don't like price gouging, but if they could keep them out of fleet sale territory it would be nice. I don't like seeing an ad with the altima saying over sixty to choose from. If that ever happens with the Z it will be a sad day.

 

Face it. Nissan wants the 350Z to be as common as the Corvette. Except it isn't a Corvette. So deal with tht fact that it's a mass produced car intended to make Nissan and it's dealers money.

I for one am all for it. Why make low numbers so that dealers get huge profits? The dealer is a middleman, nothing else. They don't provide useful information, lie at every chance, and generally are in business to try and NOT give you a good deal. Oh they'll be nice, very nice. As long as you're giving them a nice margin to enjoy.

I for one welcome near-invoice pricing within a year of release of the 350Z. With 30,000+ heading for the shores in the first year, it's pretty likely you'll find it in your neighborhood too.

The NRP (Nissan Recovery Plan) does not say "build small numbers of exclusive cars" it says "Rebuild your image and get the hell out of debt!"

 

I see your point, but can't you see that you can make as much money selling 15,000 cars at MSRP as you can by selling 30,000 cars at Invoice. If they are worried about giving the dealers too big a slice of the pie why not raise the invoice but keep the MSRP the same? Crap the Z06 is a perfect example, chevy could have said we're only making 4,000 per year and it would be special. But I walked onto a lot with 6 brand new Z06's. They made more than the market needed, so you can get $4000 off MSRP. Now if you are trying to sell a used Z06 it would have to be $10K off MSRP just to compete.

Anyway it's not like we are going to change nissan's stratagy one way or the other. I just think the less there are around the more special it will be.

 

Mass production = lower costs and higher aftermarket interest. I currently own a low production vehicle and it's not funny trying to find parts (both OEM and performance). Let's face it, the Z production goal doesn't exactly mean that we're going to see them on the road as often as a Toyota Camry.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but anything over MSRP stays with the dealer does it not?
All Nissan needs to be concerned about is how many they can sell a year at MSRP.

 

anything over invoice is dealer profit. 30000 cars in the 1st year will not flood the market, Toyota sells 40000 camrys a month. If you don't have the volume, you won't get the aftermarket support.

 

As long as they sell the cars at invoice Nissan doesn't have anything to worry about. Its not going to hurt Nissan (other than the dealers possibly) if they sell cars at invoice because that is how much the dealers paid for them. Anything above invoice is what the dealers make. It still works out good for Nissan because they can sell more cars. Plus, the more cars they make, the less it costs them, so they make even more money in the end.
I don't really want to drive down the street and see tons of 350Z around, but I don't think we will really have to worry about that. It is still a 2 seater sports car with minimal luggage space, and it won't be nearly the seller a Toyota Camry or even an Altima would be.

 

I think Nissan is doing exactly the right thing. The mission of the 350Z was to be a 21st century 240Z, a first-class sports car for the masses -- not an exclusive status symbol for the elite, which is Porsche's raison d'etre.

The mission of the S2000 was something else entirely -- to provide a limited-production car for people who were willing to sacrifice almost everything else (torque, comfort, practicality) for the sake of having one of the best-handling cars at any price.

Nissan is betting that they can make more money on a $30K sports car that will sell well than on a $40K sports car with a padded profit margin. My guess is that they're right, and the 350Z will be much more profitable than the Z32 ever was...

 

If I could afford a ZO6, I'd buy it regardless of the fact that I see vette's all the time on the road. Cars are not meant to be elitest, they are transportation (and sometimes entertainment).

Don't buy a Z because you want to be 'cool' and 'unique.' Buy it because you WANT it.

Nissan makes the same amount of money on each car it builds because they sell to the dealers at invoice. What the dealer gets is up to them. So the only way Nissan can make more money is to sell more cars, period. They don't get dealer markup, the dealer does.

 

i think nissan should raise da price on da Z so it would be more rare. den i would feel special.!

 

a couple of good articles on how Nissan positions the 350Z as a volume car, but most important drawing repeat and referral customers to their other vehicles.

"Nissan's hope is that the Z car will help dealers sell a lot of Altima and Maxima sedans -- and maybe a few tens of thousands of SUVs and pickups -- to customers drawn by the buzz over this dream car."
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/...552640,00.html

"Nissan expects to sell the bulk of the 40,000-50,000 Z cars it plans to produce annually in the U.S."
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....&threadid=2151

 

That's a good point -- never underestimate the effect of a really desirable car on sales of other cars in the line-up. I personally know two people that bought the 240SX several years ago because they were so impressed with the 300ZX. The Z was out of their price range, but they figured if Nissan could build that, they must know what they're doing. The whole "Z DNA" thing. This is especially true with the new Z, since it shares a platform with other vehicles.

I think Nissan going broke after ending the last-generation Z was a little more than just coincidence, and I think Nissan's new management sees this as well. The Z is worth more to Nissan than just the profits on the cars themselves. Yes, they have stated they will make money on it, but even if they just broke even it would be worth having in the stable.

 

My thoughts on this.

1) The Z will be priced above (or at least at) MSRP for a while after it comes out.

2) Production may be fairly high, but

3) The market may still be fairly low.

Keep in mind that the Z is a $26,000 to $35,000 two seat, rear wheel drive sports car, with minimal storage space. The interest in a car like this is much lower than that for a 4 door, 4 seat, family sedan. We may all be rabid fans, but the majority of America is paying much less attention to a car such as this. Also, as the market expands to include the G35C and Rx-8, eventually a Supra, possibly a Rx-7, that interest will be even more dilute. I think Nissan would love to see a Z in every driveway, but there really aren't enough people to make that happen. A Z will never have the exclusivity of a S2000 or a Boxster S, but it should still be a fairly uncommon car.

Keep in mind that density will also depend on location. Obviously, in sunny southern CA, there will be many more Z's than in, say, Wisconsin.

 

I don't need a rare car to make me feel special.

True class comes from within, not without.

Who wants to buy a personality?

 

I still think I can speak for all of us when i say this:

The most enjoyable time of us in our Z's lives will be driving up until Jan., when we get all those stares like, "What the hell is that?"

 

Oh I hear yeah. There a certain sort of visceral thrill. But I'd still be happy just having one even if there were 100,000 other ones out there!

 

I was getting comments from strangers about my 1990 300Z for years after I purchased it. I'm sure it will be the same with the 350Z.

 

Not the S2000, but around here dealers have half-a-dozen Boxsters sitting on the lot, a couple of the 'S' models. Most people are jumping to the higher-end models and skipping the entry-level Porsche.

Too bad, the Boxster S handles way better than a 911, it just doesn't have the power.