Alang

iTrader: (1)

"Next Year" will always bring about a better/faster car. If you keep waiting, you will never get one. Since I have not heard anything about this rumored supra, its hard to judge how it will stack up, and I doubt it will be ready in a year.

One thing I would bet money on is that the Toyota will cost a lot more than $28K. Yes it will beat a Z, but so will a Z06. You just have to spend the extra bucks.

$34K for my track model was near my pain point for the cost of a car. The only way I might be sorry I bought the Z is if the Supra comes out with killer styling (it will be very hard to beat the 350Z IMO), 350HP and a similar price. Not vary likely.

robbyn

I don't see Toyota getting 350 HP without going to FI. The Z will easily get to 350 HP with FI, so I see no big advantage to the Supra. Also, this just in: ROBBYN today announced that he will be releasing a 400 HP mid engine RWD Robster for the 2004 Model year. Talk is cheap. I don't believe Toyota has a car remotely ready for 2004. Toyota has been caught with its pants down with the new Z, so they announce some vapor ware with the hopes of stealing some of the Z's thunder. Plus Toyota does not currently have any engine remotely close to 350 HP, even if they could conjure up one by next year, I shudder to think of its reliability. Bottem line: If you really think Toyota is going to have a 350 HP sports car ready by September 2003, I can make you a GREAT deal on this bridge between Brooklyn and Manhatten!!

chicago_z

I don't really care. Some people might. The first time I saw the 350z I didn't know what the HP was, how much it cost, or even who made it. I saw the car and said... "that is hot, what the hell is it?". That was on a TV show on HDNET that was just running through some auto show. It was Benz, Beamer, Ferrari, Porsche, and Z. The Z caught my eye (the others didnt), and when I found out the price, I decided it was time to buy a new car (I was not looking for one at the time).

That is the same reason I did not flinch when I saw motorweek TV cover the new Mustang Cobra SVT the other day.

It is has much more HP, more torque, better 0-60, better quarter mile and costs approx 34k.

But its not a Z. I'm much more into looks than #s. The z is going to be a fast car... I'll be happy.

LowFuel

It's all speculation anyway. My guess is even if it is true, there will be a Supra Killer the year after that, and then a Supra Killer Killer the year after that, and so on and so on until the end of time. At some point you just have to get a car and enjoy it...

LithossZ

Hahaha Robbyn, sooo well put.
And also, as far as I'm concerned Toyota has been going down hill since they introduced the Echo and the newest Celica. I mean these cars may be good cars, but they are down right butt ugly. If someone offered me an echo for free, I'd turn around and sell it asap. Ever since, every Toyota has become horrible-looking. The Camry, MR2, Corolla, etc etc. The best looking (or should i say the only one that looks decent) Toyota right now, sad to say, is the RAV4. Now that's sad. And what's to stop them from ruining their last remaining respectable car? The supra will be ugly just like all their other cars.
Now that i've got all the personal opinions out of the way...
A non-FI 3.5L V6 with 350hp? I'd like to see that. The 3.5L VQ engine (well not the VQ, but Nissan's 3.5L V6) has been a Nissan staple since their beginnings. It has been developed and tweaked for 20+ years. With variable-valve timing and these many years of development, we just now see 287hp coming out of a stock VQ engine. I would LOVE to see Toyota get this 350hp. Especially within a year.

fairladyZ in Japan

All speculation... Japanese magazines have all reported that Toyota is set to go ahead with a new Supra.. given the introduction of the Z.

Even if the Supra comes out with 350 HP... Nissan already has a lot of engine tweaks for the Z up its sleeve --

So -- Toyota may win a hand.. but it will never win the game.

Infiniti-WTO

Well since Nissan got 444HP from the same VQ 3.5 L engine the Z is gonna have i dont see the problem. Im sure that it can make 350HP without any trouble, dont you agree? Nissan has already stated that there is a lot of room left to play with in the 3.5L VQ. oh and the racing version also proves that the 3.5L VQ is just as rev happy as the 3.0LVQ. This is what i am thinking in terms of the next GTR. they will take the 444Hp lower the compression, so now you have say 400Hp, then they can slap on our favorite little turbos and with a low ps you have 500HP. And with quite a bit of room to go i might add. RPM 8000 just like on the Racing version fit into the taughtes FM platform they can make and what do you have. A freakin world beater: ferrari, lambo, viper, vette, supra. Just think about it!!!

rai

I agree that 350 hp can be done with a NA 3.5 L, but the price will be too high. Let's see the cars with 100hp/L or better. 360, M3, S2000. The M3 engine alone costs $20K.

The 360 costs $160K ($400 per HP)
M3 $55K ($165 per HP)
S2000 $32K ($133 per HP)

now look at the 350Z ($94 per HP)

The WRX has a similar dollar per HP but it's a turbo.


Toyotas have always cost more than nissans (they may be a slight bit better, but they charge you for it). I don't see the toyota costing less than $40K. I think the supra has a history of turbo charged and may go with a base NA say 275HP and a turbo at 350HP.

Let's look at the track 350Z at $121 per HP the supra with 350 hp and similar equipment could cost $42K. Not a bad number but $7K more than the track that can be used for NISMO.

sschmuve

iTrader: (1)

I predict since the Z uses only variable timing, the Supra will use variable timing, 1k more rpm and variable lift. There you go..350hp, and the Z is eating dust. The base model would still be around 30k.

rai

LOL

I can't wait to see that one. In fact I'm holding my breath.

The MR-2 costs in the low $20's with 150 hp, they are going to sell a supra with 3 X the HP for a few thounand more? That's a good one.

I'm not saying they couldn't do it, but with 911's and NSX's selling for $80-90K with far less HP, M3's selling for $58K with less HP, C5's with 350hp selling for $48K, what is the incentive for Toyota to leave all that money on the table? Just to beat the 350Z?

You are very niave my young friend.

sschmuve

iTrader: (1)

The mr2 hp has nothing to do with it. I saw a special edition miata for $28k. Will that stop Mazda from making the 250hp RX-8 for about 30k? The Z is the start of a new breed of sports cars that focus on bang for the buck. It's a sports car revolution. The Z is already stealing sales from the higher end models. Toyota will steal Nissan's formula, and beat them at the same game. The incentive would be the money made selling NSX/911 killers by high volume at low cost. They could charge 50k, but they would sit on the lots like the last generation Supras did. Most people with that kind of money to throw at a car, don't understand or desire a japanese import.

articfury

You gotta love the heated debates about vaporware and a not quite yet available vehicle. We might as well be discussing the NV30 and the R300.

JD

Apexi350z

iTrader: (3)

But they are not cars! hehe

My money is on the R300

Nitro13

Looking back into history, the original Z, RX-7 and Supra were all reasonably priced cars. Then something happened that pushed the price up to the point where there was no longer a market for them.

If Toyota manages to bring out a 350HP Supra, the price will surely be higher than a 350Z. Will Nissan then try to ante up? How many years before these companies price themselves out of this market again and repeat history?

Just a thought...

Fred

LA-Z

You guys are out of your minds. First off, even if Toyota was to turn around in ONE YEAR and make new Supra *cough(********)* with, heh, 350 Horsepower, hehheh, non-FI...LOL...anyway, no way it's going to be around 30K. Sorry. Second point, don't you think that Nissan, who already has the Z up and running at that point, will produce a Supercharged version, with Nismo Tuning that will beat the Z beater before the Supra is even released? I mean come on, they could throw a supercharger on the base model, mod the engine, keep everything else the same, and it would be the same price as the Track Model (which is an 8K dollar difference), and it will be just as fast in 0-60 as any Supra. Anyway, 0-60 isn't the only measure of a cars performance, every publication has been sweating the Z's handling, saying it is easily as good as a Boxter-S. Case closed.

ru4real

If Toyota has a new Supra for MY04, the design would already be complete and their production lines would have to be installed and running pre-production cars six months (probably less) from today.

rai

I'm not saying $50K, but I don't see it happening for $30K. The Supra will not start under $40K if it has 350HP. IMO.

Further by this stage in the Z project they were giving test drives to motor trend. We don't even have a concept for the Supra. We know far more about the 2005 corvette. In fact I doubt the supra will be out before the new corvette. Time will tell.

kroams

It was a big gamble for Nissan to bring back the Z which is why they went through the years and years of concepts, testing, etc. Even Mazda has been through alot with the RX-8. I don't see how Toyota is going to risk bringing back a very expensive sports car without at least one or two years worth of concepts at the auto shows. Its very unlikely Toyota will release a new Supra (a name which has legacy like the Z and rotary sports cars) without the necessary market research and testing. Nissan could not get away with secret market research with the G35c and 350Z recently without us seeing spy pics and I doubt Toyota could either.

Also it would be very expensive to get 350 HP out of a 3.5L NA engine. Of course it can be done but similar performance is requiring VERY expensive engines like the M3 and Porsche 996. Unless the Supra is super cheap with interior materials, heavy (no expensive aluminum, no CF driveshafts, etc) and does not have expensive technology (VDC, TCS, etc) I don't see how they could afford to sell the car for even $40K. The days are over where car compaines can build low volume very expensive sports cars just to keep up with Jones's and hope it generates showroom traffic.

Ghosen said from the beginning that the Z would be a profitable sports car and assuming Toyota wants the Supra to be profitable either it will be less than 350 HP NA and cost similar to the 350Z or have 350 HP (with or without FI) and be much more expensive.

But the good news just like mentioned above is that Nissan is ahead of the game and can easily add a supercharger or turbo to match/beat anything Toyota throws at them. Toyota will always be behind the game unless they want to sell a $50K Supra.