How do you downshift?
Charter Member #43
Joined: May 2002
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From: Plano, Texas, USA
Originally posted by dvlad
Heel toeing takes practice and more practice. But once you can master that technique.....man it feels good!!
For a true automotive nut, heeling toeing is the only way to downshift.
It gives the driver the most control and satisfaction.
Heel toeing takes practice and more practice. But once you can master that technique.....man it feels good!!
For a true automotive nut, heeling toeing is the only way to downshift.
It gives the driver the most control and satisfaction.
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From: James Brown
Originally posted by Todd
As Pat Goss said in response to a question about whether you should use brakes or engine to slow down....Which is more expensive to replace, the engine or the brakes!
As Pat Goss said in response to a question about whether you should use brakes or engine to slow down....Which is more expensive to replace, the engine or the brakes!
Slowing down via engine braking is tough on the engine and can unsettle the tail of the car by sending to much torque to the tires. This in return can make the tires lose traction and enduce a state of oversteer.
Last edited by dvlad; May 18, 2002 at 04:35 AM.
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From: Toronto, CANADA
Originally posted by dvlad
Slowing down via engine braking is tough on the engine and can unsettle the tail of the car by sending to much torque to the tires. This in return can make the tires lose traction and enduce a state of oversteer.
Slowing down via engine braking is tough on the engine and can unsettle the tail of the car by sending to much torque to the tires. This in return can make the tires lose traction and enduce a state of oversteer.
Charter Member #47
Joined: May 2002
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From: Austin, Texas
I'm a 'self taught' manual transmission driver also. I've found that I have far more control of my car when I'm down shifting to a stop. I never want to be in a situation where I need to make a quick move and not have the car in a gear where I'm able do that.
Bottom line is... I like to have control of my car at all times and by down shifting I feel like I have that control. I don't mind sacrificing a little clutch for the control. That's just my two cents.
Bottom line is... I like to have control of my car at all times and by down shifting I feel like I have that control. I don't mind sacrificing a little clutch for the control. That's just my two cents.
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I asked this question to my mechanic at Datsun Dynamic. Here is what he had to say:
In terms of double-clutching/rev matching, there's nothing really wrong with it, but it's not really necessary for everyday driving. That's why you have synchros, to handle the gear switch without hurting the tranny. Still, it can offer an extended degree of control, particularly when slowing and prepping the car for max power through a turn (again, that's more of a racing concern).
As for downshifting hurting the engine - that will occur.....if you downshift to 2nd from 5th at 60mph! There's nothing wrong with downshifting, so long as it's not aggressive. Using the compression of the engine to slow the vehicle won't "hurt" the engine, otherwise you would be concerned with acceleration in the same way, because it's the same effect in the opposite direction. Downshifting is actually good for the flywheel, as it will wear it in the other direction. When you get flywheel work done, generally it's because the part was worn heavily from acceleration - deceleration can help reverse this effect.
I think the main point is to not do extreme maneuvers to the car in any case, if you are concerned with preservation. Downshifting, rev-matching, etc. are fine so long as they aren't done to excess. The same can be said from braking.
In terms of double-clutching/rev matching, there's nothing really wrong with it, but it's not really necessary for everyday driving. That's why you have synchros, to handle the gear switch without hurting the tranny. Still, it can offer an extended degree of control, particularly when slowing and prepping the car for max power through a turn (again, that's more of a racing concern).
As for downshifting hurting the engine - that will occur.....if you downshift to 2nd from 5th at 60mph! There's nothing wrong with downshifting, so long as it's not aggressive. Using the compression of the engine to slow the vehicle won't "hurt" the engine, otherwise you would be concerned with acceleration in the same way, because it's the same effect in the opposite direction. Downshifting is actually good for the flywheel, as it will wear it in the other direction. When you get flywheel work done, generally it's because the part was worn heavily from acceleration - deceleration can help reverse this effect.
I think the main point is to not do extreme maneuvers to the car in any case, if you are concerned with preservation. Downshifting, rev-matching, etc. are fine so long as they aren't done to excess. The same can be said from braking.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: frisco, tx
Although I don't work my way down through the gears at every stop, I do rev-match on every downshift without exception. I also rev-match when downshifting to pass, something that quite a few drivers do not do. I hate when someone is going to pass on the freeway, justs slams it into a lower gear and pops the clutch.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Originally posted by Dave
Rev-matching prevents that..
Rev-matching prevents that..
Nissan doesn't offer Brembo's so you can use the engine to stop the car! Also, I don't think VDC will work if you don't have your foot on the brake pedal.
To answer the original question, push in the clutch, keep it in gear, and hit the brakes. When you are almost stopped, put it in first and you're ready to take off again.
-TB
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From: Des Moines
Originally posted by Them Bones
To answer the original question, push in the clutch, keep it in gear, and hit the brakes. When you are almost stopped, put it in first and you're ready to take off again.
-TB
To answer the original question, push in the clutch, keep it in gear, and hit the brakes. When you are almost stopped, put it in first and you're ready to take off again.
-TB
If you choose to use your engine to slow you down, or your brakes, or both, at least keep it in gear..... coasting is lame. If you check your state's bylaws it's probably illegal too.
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From: san jose, california
I'm not very well versed in the driving lingo...
Can someone please give me an exact definition of "rev-matching" and "heel-toe"?
I only buy manual transmission cars, and I always down shift through the gears while stopping. I've heard that this doesn't hurt the engine, and it saves your brakes?
Can someone please give me an exact definition of "rev-matching" and "heel-toe"?
I only buy manual transmission cars, and I always down shift through the gears while stopping. I've heard that this doesn't hurt the engine, and it saves your brakes?
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Originally posted by POWERZ
Don't push in the clutch and coast! You could at least keep it in sixth until right before you stop. And its not that hard to go into third before stopping too.
If you choose to use your engine to slow you down, or your brakes, or both, at least keep it in gear..... coasting is lame. If you check your state's bylaws it's probably illegal too.
Don't push in the clutch and coast! You could at least keep it in sixth until right before you stop. And its not that hard to go into third before stopping too.
If you choose to use your engine to slow you down, or your brakes, or both, at least keep it in gear..... coasting is lame. If you check your state's bylaws it's probably illegal too.
-TB
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From: Alexandria VA
Stopping
Generally the most effective way to save your breaks and not wear out your transmission is just to left your foot off the gas and do not put the car into neutral. Even in 6th you will get significant engine breaking. You not need to put in the clutch until you are under 20 mph (assuming you do not need to accelerate). If I was going 60 and coming to a stop sign, I might downshift once (say to 4th). Then I would not put in the clutch until I was going about 10 mph. If there is no load on the engine you can stay in a high gear at very low speeds.
Many times when coming to a stop light I have down shifted from 5th (it was a five speed) to 2nd because the light turns green. Dont be afraid of the clutch, driving around in neutral is bad form for manual tranny guys.
Many times when coming to a stop light I have down shifted from 5th (it was a five speed) to 2nd because the light turns green. Dont be afraid of the clutch, driving around in neutral is bad form for manual tranny guys.
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From: New England, U.S.
Originally posted by spaceboy
I'm not very well versed in the driving lingo...
Can someone please give me an exact definition of "rev-matching" and "heel-toe"?
I only buy manual transmission cars, and I always down shift through the gears while stopping. I've heard that this doesn't hurt the engine, and it saves your brakes?
I'm not very well versed in the driving lingo...
Can someone please give me an exact definition of "rev-matching" and "heel-toe"?
I only buy manual transmission cars, and I always down shift through the gears while stopping. I've heard that this doesn't hurt the engine, and it saves your brakes?
I am soon to be a novice manual tranny driver in my new Z. Any other manual tranny driving tips welcome.
THanks...
Jimmy
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally posted by spaceboy
Can someone please give me an exact definition of "rev-matching" and "heel-toe"?
Can someone please give me an exact definition of "rev-matching" and "heel-toe"?
https://my350z.com/forum/showthr...&threadid=3567&
Oh.... one more hint: This message board includes an excellent search engine
I don't really see why anyone would want to "save their brakes." They are fairly easy and cheap to replace, especially compared to the clutch. I too enjoy the sound and the feel of going back down through the gears when coming to a stop. The arbument that downshifting is no harder on the engine than accelerating doesn't really hold water with me, because accellerating is definately harder on the engine that idling (which is what your engine is doing if you ar coming to a stop in neutral). I also think slowing down is different than coming to a stop. If you are slowing down, then you probably should engine brake, because you want to make sure you are in the correct gear when you accelerate again.
On my first car, I used to downshift, not only cuz it sounded cool (big V8 with glass packs) but I thought it helped me stop quicker. But now that I think about it, the brakes have enough power to stop the wheels, and all the engine will do is slow them down. Besides, engine braking only affects the rear wheels, and most of your stopping power cmoes from the front anyway.
On my first car, I used to downshift, not only cuz it sounded cool (big V8 with glass packs) but I thought it helped me stop quicker. But now that I think about it, the brakes have enough power to stop the wheels, and all the engine will do is slow them down. Besides, engine braking only affects the rear wheels, and most of your stopping power cmoes from the front anyway.
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Re: How do you downshift?
Originally posted by Scafremon
First off, I have owned manual transmission cars before. But I admit, no one ever taught me the proper way to shift. I walked into a car dealer in 1985, and bought a VW GTI with a manual transmission. I learned by doing. For all I know,I shift like everyone else. At least, no passenger has ever commented "Gee, you sure shift wierd".
I've owned manuals since, but last few cars have been auto, and I am looking forward to the pleasures of actually 'driving' a car again with my new Z.
But I am curious about downshifting through the gears when preparing to stop, and if this is something that shouldn't be done under most circumstances.
As I imagine the answers could be as varied as the individuals, let me set-up a scenario:
You are alone in your Z. There is no one around whom you are going to try and impress. You are doing 60mph, and approaching a stop sign. Let me clarify this further.... you are going to 'stop' at the stop sign.
Do you put the car in neutral, and coast/brake to the stop sign? Or do you downshift through the gears?
I think I got in the habit of downshifting through the gears. This probably stemmed from my early days learning to shift, as to throw the car into neutral could mean that if I wanted to accelerate before the stop, I'd have to make a guess as to what gear would be appropriate. Downshifting always get me in the correct gear for the moment.
But now I am thinking if maybe I was putting additional wear and tear on the clutch, when I should have been putting that wear on the brake pads, which are easier and less costly to replace.
What do you all do, and is there a defintive correct answer to the above scenario?
First off, I have owned manual transmission cars before. But I admit, no one ever taught me the proper way to shift. I walked into a car dealer in 1985, and bought a VW GTI with a manual transmission. I learned by doing. For all I know,I shift like everyone else. At least, no passenger has ever commented "Gee, you sure shift wierd".
I've owned manuals since, but last few cars have been auto, and I am looking forward to the pleasures of actually 'driving' a car again with my new Z.
But I am curious about downshifting through the gears when preparing to stop, and if this is something that shouldn't be done under most circumstances.
As I imagine the answers could be as varied as the individuals, let me set-up a scenario:
You are alone in your Z. There is no one around whom you are going to try and impress. You are doing 60mph, and approaching a stop sign. Let me clarify this further.... you are going to 'stop' at the stop sign.
Do you put the car in neutral, and coast/brake to the stop sign? Or do you downshift through the gears?
I think I got in the habit of downshifting through the gears. This probably stemmed from my early days learning to shift, as to throw the car into neutral could mean that if I wanted to accelerate before the stop, I'd have to make a guess as to what gear would be appropriate. Downshifting always get me in the correct gear for the moment.
But now I am thinking if maybe I was putting additional wear and tear on the clutch, when I should have been putting that wear on the brake pads, which are easier and less costly to replace.
What do you all do, and is there a defintive correct answer to the above scenario?
By the way my situation is the opposite of yours, I am going from all manuals to an AT. The AT is a learning trans and I am using the same technique in braking as I did with my MTs. It is very intuitive and is adapting very quickly to my MT habits. "AI", anyone?
Boomer
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From: Des Moines
Re: Re: How do you downshift?
Originally posted by Boomer
The AT is a learning trans and I am using the same technique in braking as I did with my MTs. It is very intuitive and is adapting very quickly to my MT habits. "AI", anyone?
The AT is a learning trans and I am using the same technique in braking as I did with my MTs. It is very intuitive and is adapting very quickly to my MT habits. "AI", anyone?
How do you "teach" it?