Nissan sales training lies
08-29-2002, 09:13 AM
#61
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Originally posted by mav
Also the 350Z isn't god's gift to man, as many of you make it out to be. Sure, its a great car, but its far from being the best Japanese import car around... that title would belong to the Honda NSX Type R. Oh wait, I'm sorry its a Honda, so it must be a rice mobile, huh?
Also the 350Z isn't god's gift to man, as many of you make it out to be. Sure, its a great car, but its far from being the best Japanese import car around... that title would belong to the Honda NSX Type R. Oh wait, I'm sorry its a Honda, so it must be a rice mobile, huh?
I personally think the Skyline GT-R is a more capable vehicle than the U.S. market NSX or the NSX type R. Likewise the the S2000 is not god's gift to man either.
On a side note, even though folks say that money is not an issue and that they are buying the 350Z for its attributes, etc., for me if money was not an issue, I would be thinking along the lines of the SL500 or 360 Modena, both which I can't afford and quite frankly, even if I can afford them the cost of servicing would be shocking compared to a 350Z or S2000.
This type of post always shows up on different forums. The 350Z is just the proverbial "flavor of the month." It will be replaced by some other hot vehicle when it is released, and soon folks will be proclaiming their undying love for that vehicle, until something else comes along. Drive what you want and remember forum is not fact.
08-29-2002, 09:20 AM
#62
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Yea, driving a car with a manual transmission is rocket science
They sell every S2k because they build so few of them. Selling 30k Zs is a much greater accomplishment regardless of which car is actually "better."
If a sports car being "usable" is a bad thing, don't go near a Porsche dealership.
Perhaps the S2k will beat out the Z on the track, and that's a great accomplishment if it does. However, I'm quite sure the great majority of both Zs and S2ks will see far more road miles than track miles and the winner in that arena seems very clear. If you ask me, the poseurs are the ones that buy cars that are great at something they never use them for (SUVs, "raw" sports cars, etc). Not to say that the S2k is not a great vehicle, it certainly is, just not as good a *road car* as the Z.
They sell every S2k because they build so few of them. Selling 30k Zs is a much greater accomplishment regardless of which car is actually "better."
If a sports car being "usable" is a bad thing, don't go near a Porsche dealership.
Perhaps the S2k will beat out the Z on the track, and that's a great accomplishment if it does. However, I'm quite sure the great majority of both Zs and S2ks will see far more road miles than track miles and the winner in that arena seems very clear. If you ask me, the poseurs are the ones that buy cars that are great at something they never use them for (SUVs, "raw" sports cars, etc). Not to say that the S2k is not a great vehicle, it certainly is, just not as good a *road car* as the Z.
08-29-2002, 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by SilverStreak
Shift ____ what a bad slogan of a campaign, it doesn't even flow well. The VW campaign of Drivers wanted is 10X better. As witness Nissan Marketing lacks originally and has to resort to false claims to sell cars. Have you guys seen a S commercial, probably not. However, every S produced is sold, why you ask, because the car sells itself, no need for false claims here.
I'd hate to be a owner of a AUTO Z, what can you SHIFT then
Everyone and their dog can drive a Z with the auto version. At least in the S, you know the driver can drive MT and that keeps most of the pretenders out.
There is a clear distinction between S owners and Z owners generally. Z owners aren't true enthusiast, go for large power numbers thinking that will overcome everything, wrong. Witness the narrow views on this board thinking the new Z god's gift and will solve the worlds problems
Don't say you guys are true enthusiats, since you can't even appreciate a raw sports car.
Shift ____ what a bad slogan of a campaign, it doesn't even flow well. The VW campaign of Drivers wanted is 10X better. As witness Nissan Marketing lacks originally and has to resort to false claims to sell cars. Have you guys seen a S commercial, probably not. However, every S produced is sold, why you ask, because the car sells itself, no need for false claims here.
I'd hate to be a owner of a AUTO Z, what can you SHIFT then
Everyone and their dog can drive a Z with the auto version. At least in the S, you know the driver can drive MT and that keeps most of the pretenders out.There is a clear distinction between S owners and Z owners generally. Z owners aren't true enthusiast, go for large power numbers thinking that will overcome everything, wrong. Witness the narrow views on this board thinking the new Z god's gift and will solve the worlds problems
Don't say you guys are true enthusiats, since you can't even appreciate a raw sports car.
"So Young, So Angry!. . . Damm that rap music!" - Dr. Doolittle 2
08-29-2002, 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by SilverStreak
Shift ____ what a bad slogan of a campaign, it doesn't even flow well. The VW campaign of Drivers wanted is 10X better. As witness Nissan Marketing lacks originally and has to resort to false claims to sell cars. Have you guys seen a S commercial, probably not. However, every S produced is sold, why you ask, because the car sells itself, no need for false claims here.
Don't say you guys are true enthusiats, since you can't even appreciate a raw sports car.
Shift ____ what a bad slogan of a campaign, it doesn't even flow well. The VW campaign of Drivers wanted is 10X better. As witness Nissan Marketing lacks originally and has to resort to false claims to sell cars. Have you guys seen a S commercial, probably not. However, every S produced is sold, why you ask, because the car sells itself, no need for false claims here.
Don't say you guys are true enthusiats, since you can't even appreciate a raw sports car.
What a tool, he's putting the Z down because it's slogan sucks. That's a deal killer for me. Forget the cruise control limit, and the antenna issue, that Shift buisness is for losers. LOL.
Oh and by the way we all know that honda doesn't need to advertise to sell every S2000 it produces right. Well it's limited for some reason. 5-6K cars a year. Nissan will be selling 5,000 350Z's every two months. When honda is moving 5K cars every two months come and talk.
Now go cry to your mommy
08-29-2002, 10:09 AM
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ok, it's clear. Silverf*ck is as biased as anyone in here. Cyberx however surpisingly unbiased as a new s2k owner and a newbie with 3 posts in here. We should all read his post a time or two and close this thread.
08-29-2002, 10:41 AM
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you don't see s2000s in GT racing because of the sub 2.0 liter engine. For Le Mans GT the smallest engine size is 3.2L. However, the spoon s2000 was in the SCCBC Sedan Invitational in vancouver this month and won the P-2 class, beating many of the P-1 cars including 911s,etc. That's without any engine mods...they aren't allowed in their race series. They do a lot of enduro racing in that car in the SuperTaikyu series.
I did see the SCC article where their exhaust lowered the hp. He's doing a before and after dyno with the exhaust install so we'll see how it goes. My exhaust gave me 0 gains, but the louder note is appreciated at the track esp. when I'm around those damn pro-7 cars.
and yes, I WILL be going for the fastest laps possible in both cars! Like I said before I don't expect the Z on street tires to outperform the S on R-compound but I expect great times from the 20 minute drive I took in one last night. I imagine having the car pryed away from my hands before I'm ready to be done with it
Thunderhill will be a great comparison track. There are 4.5 straights where my S gets over 100mph, and one of those is going uphill. I imagine the Z to be much faster there with the extra torque. I think the added weight will help on places like T1,T5 and T9 where grip is an issue due to elevation change. Where the S shines is its ability to carry speed through corners, because of the low torque you can get on the gas very early in almost any corner, and the lower weight lets me outbrake cars that were just flying past me like I was standing still on the straights.
I think if we went to streets of willows or sprint mountain instead of TH the results would favor the S by far because they are much tighter tracks...thunderhill has a lot of room for the extra torque to shine.
Ya know, my goal here isn't to knock the Z. It's not to knock the S either, I think they're both great cars. I'm just trying to see what I like/dislike about them in comparison and find the strong and weak points of both at the track. gimmie a break!!!
I did see the SCC article where their exhaust lowered the hp. He's doing a before and after dyno with the exhaust install so we'll see how it goes. My exhaust gave me 0 gains, but the louder note is appreciated at the track esp. when I'm around those damn pro-7 cars.
and yes, I WILL be going for the fastest laps possible in both cars! Like I said before I don't expect the Z on street tires to outperform the S on R-compound but I expect great times from the 20 minute drive I took in one last night. I imagine having the car pryed away from my hands before I'm ready to be done with it
Thunderhill will be a great comparison track. There are 4.5 straights where my S gets over 100mph, and one of those is going uphill. I imagine the Z to be much faster there with the extra torque. I think the added weight will help on places like T1,T5 and T9 where grip is an issue due to elevation change. Where the S shines is its ability to carry speed through corners, because of the low torque you can get on the gas very early in almost any corner, and the lower weight lets me outbrake cars that were just flying past me like I was standing still on the straights.
I think if we went to streets of willows or sprint mountain instead of TH the results would favor the S by far because they are much tighter tracks...thunderhill has a lot of room for the extra torque to shine.
Ya know, my goal here isn't to knock the Z. It's not to knock the S either, I think they're both great cars. I'm just trying to see what I like/dislike about them in comparison and find the strong and weak points of both at the track. gimmie a break!!!
08-29-2002, 10:42 AM
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Time to go
I've been lurking here for a few weeks, debating on the new Z. After reading this thread I'm disappointed with the level of competency of the average Joe on this board. Why do you bother claiming to own another car on the road? there will always be someone faster than you. Do you truely think you're always the king of the road? sorry to hurt your ego but be realistic.
I can't believe the level of ignorant displayed by both side of the arguement. Some of you claimed to be a true auto enthusiast - yet that is not to be seen in any of the posting (with the exception of a few very good comments). You pull the best numbers out of a hat just to make your point.
Everyone here should put their fingers where it counts - on the track.
Having said all that..... time to try out the Z06 crew. (my my.. I fear more flame coming)
I can't believe the level of ignorant displayed by both side of the arguement. Some of you claimed to be a true auto enthusiast - yet that is not to be seen in any of the posting (with the exception of a few very good comments). You pull the best numbers out of a hat just to make your point.
Everyone here should put their fingers where it counts - on the track.
Having said all that..... time to try out the Z06 crew. (my my.. I fear more flame coming)
08-29-2002, 12:35 PM
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Most of you guys are pretty weak and can't stand up to a decent exchange. You have to resort to brainless comebacks like:
14 year old punk
a tool - since I talk about the mktg slogan
changing my name
to your mommy
Please, who are the kids comming up with thes comebacks?
Yes you guys are so mature you forget who was focusing on that stupid slogan first, "shift envy" comes to mind. Where is the wit? huh? I respect some of you who have decided to answer with facts and quotes supporting your side, that is great. That is what an exchange of ideas should be.
I have yet to attack anyone personally on here, just have express my opinions about the cars. So, pause a minute and ask yourself who is the 14 year here using profanity and resorting to crude answers.
Oh, hope Renault buys the rest of Nissan, then you can brag that you share a heritage with LeCars
14 year old punk
a tool - since I talk about the mktg slogan
changing my name
to your mommyPlease, who are the kids comming up with thes comebacks?
Yes you guys are so mature
you forget who was focusing on that stupid slogan first, "shift envy" comes to mind. Where is the wit? huh? I respect some of you who have decided to answer with facts and quotes supporting your side, that is great. That is what an exchange of ideas should be. I have yet to attack anyone personally on here, just have express my opinions about the cars. So, pause a minute and ask yourself who is the 14 year here using profanity and resorting to crude answers.
Oh, hope Renault buys the rest of Nissan, then you can brag that you share a heritage with LeCars
08-29-2002, 12:45 PM
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No one is ever going to agree on everything. As far as the S2K vs. the 350Z. Personally I like the 350Z better, and that's a personal choice. You might like the S2K better, that's your problem, but don't come into a 350Z Forum and start bashing the 350Z. I personally don't know anyone from this forum that is going over to a S2K forum and bashing the car. The S2K has it's good points and bad, so does the Z. From the numbers that I've seen on both cars, the Z out performs the S2K and these are printed in black, white and color.
Just my .02
Just my .02
08-29-2002, 12:49 PM
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Oh, one other thing!
SilverStreak.....if you want to have a contest on retorts and comebacks, then you need to bring something to the table! Go away and don't bother the fine people of my350z.com! You are the only brainless dolt that has chosen to show how childlike they can be. Please do us all a favor and take your enjoyment for the Honda S2K back where it belongs, a Honda S2K forum! This is a 350Z forum for 350Z fans and this is how we like it.
SilverStreak.....if you want to have a contest on retorts and comebacks, then you need to bring something to the table! Go away and don't bother the fine people of my350z.com! You are the only brainless dolt that has chosen to show how childlike they can be. Please do us all a favor and take your enjoyment for the Honda S2K back where it belongs, a Honda S2K forum! This is a 350Z forum for 350Z fans and this is how we like it.
08-29-2002, 12:56 PM
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I really like how silver refuses to acknowldge the better times that all magazines have come up with for the 350Z as far as 0-60 and 1/4 mile go... Two of which are sub. 5.5 Second's, for a non broken in Z by the way on stock everything, this is better then Mag's tested for the 300ZX TT. Also like how he tries to start every post being all "Hey I'm just posting facts, you guys are getting all Immature" then ends it with some lame dig at nissan, showing his true colors. Dude Get Over It. Honda's have NO heritage whatsoever, we don't need Renault to buy the rest of the company out, Nissan has made bad *** cars for years. Lets see how any Honda stands up to the GTR, or even older Skylines. The point is, the 350Z is going to easily match or beat the S2000 in almost all areas, esp. Style, and it will cost less, have low end torque, not need to rev. to 6000RPM to have any speed, and be an all around more comfortable car. I can understand why you are all upset with the Nissan Ad.
08-29-2002, 01:03 PM
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Re: WHAT?
Originally posted by padam07
Why would you repost wrong information? We alread y stated that motor trend tested it at 0-60 was 5.49 secs. and the 1/4 mile was 13.95 @ 102 mph. Do some more research?
Why would you repost wrong information? We alread y stated that motor trend tested it at 0-60 was 5.49 secs. and the 1/4 mile was 13.95 @ 102 mph. Do some more research?
Honda S2000
Transmission: Manual
Obtained from MT February, 2000
0-60: 5.2
1/4 Mile: 13.8
1/4 Speed: 100
Nissan 350Z
Transmission: Manual
Obtained from C&D August, 2002
0-60: 5.4
1/4 Mile: 14.1
1/4 Speed: 101
Information obtained from www.carstats.com. So there you have it, in "black and white and color" as to which is faster.
Enough said.
08-29-2002, 01:30 PM
#78
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You guys are insane! LOL.
Anyway, I for one am looking forward to Unabagler's analysis. Well, he's probably not going to come out and say he likes the Z better most likely, but who knows?!?! Maybe he'll run down and trade it in next week? If the guy says he is going to remain neutral...that's cool. This type of comparison is rare, and from an everyday joe. I like that...a lot. I'm looking forward to seeing his thoughts.
I've been driving an integra R for 3 years now...you know what I'm going to do not long after taking delivery. I'm going to post on the Type R board I always frequent, a comparison of the two cars. Why? Because these guys want to know the real scoop from someone who's been there. If the Z has shortcomings compared to the R, I'll surely mention them, and vice versa. I'm not too proud to admit it if I F'd up and got rid of a better car either. I'll feel sick about it, but I'll do it. I doubt this will be the case though.
I think we should just relax...as I've said, time will show which car is better for which people. There will always be the zealots that are too stubborn to try something different, but then they're only hurting themselves and missing out. That's their problem.
Anyway, I for one am looking forward to Unabagler's analysis. Well, he's probably not going to come out and say he likes the Z better most likely, but who knows?!?! Maybe he'll run down and trade it in next week? If the guy says he is going to remain neutral...that's cool. This type of comparison is rare, and from an everyday joe. I like that...a lot. I'm looking forward to seeing his thoughts.
I've been driving an integra R for 3 years now...you know what I'm going to do not long after taking delivery. I'm going to post on the Type R board I always frequent, a comparison of the two cars. Why? Because these guys want to know the real scoop from someone who's been there. If the Z has shortcomings compared to the R, I'll surely mention them, and vice versa. I'm not too proud to admit it if I F'd up and got rid of a better car either. I'll feel sick about it, but I'll do it. I doubt this will be the case though.
I think we should just relax...as I've said, time will show which car is better for which people. There will always be the zealots that are too stubborn to try something different, but then they're only hurting themselves and missing out. That's their problem.
08-29-2002, 01:38 PM
#79
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Mav, how about at least picking times from the same magazine, OK? It's an unspoken fact that C&D, R&T and MTs times can differ wildly.
A more accurate picture would be to take the times reported in the August 1999 issue of Car & Driver (First Drive: S2000) where they had a 0 to 60 of 6.8 seconds for the S2000 and compare them to the August 2002 issue of Car & Driver where they had a 0 to 60 time of 5.4 seconds for the 350Z.
(I have no idea what MT or R&T's numbers are, but I'm severely bored of this thread as well as all of the insecure S2K owners who feel the need to seek external validation for their choice in cars. To that extent, I will kindly put this thread on the ignore list.)
In case you need evidence, links to the reviews are here and here.
Now please, for the love of God. Go back to the S2K forum and have a group hug with all your Honda friends. I'm sure they're very nice people and will greet you with open arms.
A more accurate picture would be to take the times reported in the August 1999 issue of Car & Driver (First Drive: S2000) where they had a 0 to 60 of 6.8 seconds for the S2000 and compare them to the August 2002 issue of Car & Driver where they had a 0 to 60 time of 5.4 seconds for the 350Z.
(I have no idea what MT or R&T's numbers are, but I'm severely bored of this thread as well as all of the insecure S2K owners who feel the need to seek external validation for their choice in cars. To that extent, I will kindly put this thread on the ignore list.)
In case you need evidence, links to the reviews are here and here.
Now please, for the love of God. Go back to the S2K forum and have a group hug with all your Honda friends. I'm sure they're very nice people and will greet you with open arms.
Last edited by NSANY; 08-29-2002 at 01:41 PM.