nychotcop

Wow Jimster... maybe you are just upset that your massive amounts of education and professional experience doesnt exempt you from stopping when you see those pretty flashing lights behind you. I have to wonder why you have had so many encounters with the police. I also have to wonder if you are an ex con. C'mon Jim..talk to Mr. Po Po.

jimster716

iTrader: (3)

Easy with the inferiority complex. I don't need to be pulled over for modified exhaust when it came from the factory. I don't need to sit there humiliated depressing the throttle so the cop can hear that I'm not lying.

I don't need to pull over and be accused of racing when i was at a left turn redlight next to another sports car.

I don't need to be pulled over in my sports car just so i can follow a penlight with my eyes when i wasn't even pulled over for driving erratically.

Funny...not one single ticket in those instances. Eat that...NYC HOT COP...lotsa misguided pride there. Don't you have some immigrant to sodomize with a mop?

jimster716

iTrader: (3)

By the way...my wife works as a counselor to battered women. Statistically speaking, there is an extraordinary large number of batterers who are cops oddly enough and the alcoholism rate is rampant with cops. You guys definitely aren't the best and brightest.

Cities should offer very high pay to be a police officer and let the standards of natural competition weed out the the unqualified. And before getting their criminal justice associate's degree, maybe they should get some anger management and empathy classes going too.

Don't think you're any better than anyone else. I've dealt enough with cops to leave a bad taste in my mouth for no reason whatsoever so you can get off your soapbox cuz i think the statistics will tell you the general populace has a mistrust of law enforcement in general and it doesn't come from nowhere.

nychotcop

C'mon Jim..I know your outstanding education and training must have taught you that we do more than ticket writing to 350Z.com members. Jim..are you telling me that you have all this rage at Mr. "POPO" because of a few traffic stops? I could see you feeling the way you do if you were sexually assaulted with a mop or suffered a beat down by the "man". Did any of that happen to you? Try to be somewhat rational Jim.

jimster716

iTrader: (3)

Rational? Please, any one can tell you that an encounter with a police officer is a traumatic affair especially when it's repeated without reason. Ever talk to an attorney about civil rights and just cause?

I don't need you to minimize my encounters. And you really know anything about empathizing with a victim of police brutality? Yeah and Hitler cried and lost sleep thinking about those bad bad gas chambers. Pullease...if you're going to use a metaphor or an example try to use one that doesn't implicate your own profession and then come talk to me cuz at this point you're outclassed.

nychotcop

There are bad apples in all walks of society..police are not exempt from that. I am sure if you were the victim of an assault..or robbery that you would call a police officer to help you so try to be rational about things. C'mon Jim..we are not that bad.

iChiBahN

So ur basically sayin, ur friend laughed at the cops when he pulled u guys over? and when he asked for ur license n reg, u also handed him ur uncle's whatev NYPD badge or whatev

why would u do tha? u tryin to show tha ur uncle is a cop and u think he'll let u off the hook or somethign?

way to think guy

jimster716

iTrader: (3)

I would probably have to call the cops to prevent myself from beating the assailant to death cuz in this litigious society I would be the one facing charges.

I agree there are bad apples but I know there are towns that are breeding grounds for bad apples with badges. You only need to look at the history of the NYPD the last 150 years. I won't make a blanket statement to suggest all cops are on the take, but there are increasing incidents that are exposed without being hidden behind the infamous blue shield and my own experiences with no just cause traffic stops filled with assumptions and back talk to seriously reconsider who the good guys are.

Lots of people say that everyone should cut police officers some slack for the thankless job. Cops know it's a thankless job so people should cut it out with the patronizing sympathy. No one put a gun to their heads and said they had to be a cop. If I could only make one request from cops it would be that every morning they take a long look at their badge and remember their oath to serve and protect then maybe we would have less cops with chips on their shoulders when they pull over a young slope with a sports car allowing their personal issues control their temperament and language.

nychotcop

Jim, when a police officer commits a crime it makes news because it is not a common occurence. We are held to a much higher standard than the rest of society. Cops that commit crimes more often than not will suffer a greater sentence than non cops because judges are sending a message that they wont tolerate that from those that are responsible to uphold the law. I agree with this thinking. We should behave better than most people...and we do.

jimster716

iTrader: (3)

I would have to disagree with you in light of my past experiences. Although I may not have experienced a beatdown, accusations and snide remarks during random pullovers put a blight on what we are taught about cops. And such stories like Abner Louima do not surprise me.

I am not a product of the projects...I have been middle-class all of my life with no criminal background or record. And one may question the stories of the ghetto and police brutality (like the LAPD in the 60s and 70s) but to be exposed to such unprofessional behavior not once but several times during unprovoked situations (mostly with Torrance, CA Police Dept...NIT aka n*gg*r in town radio call historically speaking) is an enlightening experience. Perhaps its because criminals get off too easily upon conviction or released due to technicality, but i firmly believe the honor and duty of a sworn peace officer has been replaced by resentment and a disgruntled behavior which has succeeded in alienating the FOP from their respective communities.

I do not hate cops nor do I wish ill things upon them. I have no doubt that a cop risks life and limb every day to perform their job when called upon. But I certainly do not hold them in any manner of high regard as examples or pillars of our communities in day to day exchanges with the people of that community. It just won't happen.

nychotcop

When I said that we are better than most I was talking about criminal behavior for the most part. I know that cops can come across as harsh sometimes..but its basically used to keep a situation under control...some cops are better at it than others.

When I went to the police academy we saw a film on cop killers. An interviewer asked the cop killers what made them do it. The general reply was that the cop was too nice and not paying attention to my actions enough...the cops relaxed manner let them think they could "get away with it"..and they did.

A car stop is one of the most dangerous things a cop can do ( maybe the person just commited a crime or is wanted) Thats why we hate tinted windows..someone might have a gun pointed at us and we wouldnt even know it. ( Tip..put your interior light on or better yet roll your windows down if you have tint and you are pulled over) I am not condoning being disrespected by a cop..just explaining why we take control. While you are thinking about a ticket..the cops primary concern is safety.

zpylot

I am sure the legislation was put there for a reason. Most likely by lawmakers trying to please their constituents without fully considering the full ramification of the law. It happens all the time here in California.

Now I'm really impressed, a young person with money. You didn't answer my question. Was your friend drunk while driving? My guess is yes. I hope he does not kill any innocent people in the future. And your other three friends, were they drunk and driving?

Norel350Z

First of all before this goes any further, too nychotcop and all the others who are part of this post...I have the utmost respect for police, I myself took both the Nassau and Suffolk exams this past year, and am awating the resultes... and in the 5 years that I have had my uncles PBA card, this is the first time ive ever used it. as for my speed i retraced my route the other day at the same time of night and i figured i was going about 35, so yes, i was speeding about 5 miles over....
All i was getting at was that this cop was a bit of a jerk when i spoke to him... he seemed a little shocked, and rude to me after noting what sort of car i was driving... It gave me the impression that he was shocked that I, being a 21 year old, can afford a car like this, i work hard to drive this car, and i just don't appreciate it when i get dirty looks or sarcastic comments, doesn't have to do with the badge on the mans chest..
I really don't have a problem being pulled over, im glad that the cops are out there doing stuff like this, instead of sitting behind the local fire house doing what they do back there, all i was looking for was a little more profesionalism in the way he conversed with me...
I didn't come here to smear cops,All i wanted to do was to post my first experiance being pulled over in the Z , and my second of all time... I found it odd how harsh this guy was, when the last time i was pulled over the cop was much nicer and understanding, and he gave me a ticket that time...

Like i said I have the utmost respect for police, fire and ems, hell if i had more time id be a member of the EMFD, on a human level i was just looking for a little more respect in the way he spoke to me

ZBaby

This has been interesting reading... gives me a whole new outlook on this board and maybe 350Z owners.

DriveI65

What is a PBA card? How does it change the tenor of a traffic stop if you have a relatives card?

I have never heard of them.

IndySmooth

Jim,

I'm assuming the smartass, uneducated and inexperienced officer you referred to was a specific one. If you're referring to the average police officer, I'm afraid you're desparately incorrect.

In fact, every year the recruiting classes become more and more competitive. In many departments, a 4 year bachelor's degree in criminal justice / psychology are a must to even be considered.

You hit the nail on the head. Cities SHOULD offer very high pay for what police officers do on a daily basis, but the simple fact is that they don't and probably won't any time soon. An officer with 25 - 30 years on the force makes around $40k a year or less to strap on a kevlar vest and be the first on scene to go into YOUR house thats being broken into....to protect YOUR family from that drunk behind a steering wheel.

You are entirely correct, no one makes them join the force. Most do it because they want to make a difference. They want to help people and maybe save a life or two. It isn't like they can't get any other job so..."oh well...I think I'll go be a cop."

I truly am sorry that you had negative experiences with the police. It is a horrible thing that the bad apples NYC mentioned can turn a person to detest those that facilitate the life you lead. Unfortunately, most people are more than happy to file a complaint against an officer that was short with them....while an officer who is courteous and handles themself well rarely gets so much as a thank you....it is simply expected.

You see, by having a negative attitude towards all police because of one's attitude, you're continuing the cycle and are no better than that smartass cop.

nychotcop said it beautifully. Officers are trained to take command of a situation. If they don't, they are much more likely to lose control of the situation (be attacked, shot, etc.). I challenge you to walk up to a car on the side of a dark road by yourself and not err on the side of caution. If that person you're approaching IS guilty of a serious crime, they are like a cornered animal...they do whatever comes to them instinctually.

Those with superiority complexes usually take an officer's take-charge attitude as insulting when the officer is actually protecting themselves and those around them.

Perhaps you should get in touch with the department you're having a hard time with and request a ride along? Most departments allow civilians 18 and over to ride along with them and see what they see.

Your other option is to move to Canada, and who wants to drive their Z in 6 feet of snow?

When these topics come up, I have so much I want to say and so little space before people stop listening. I'm always up for a good debate so, by all means, please keep your thoughts coming.

IndySmooth

By the way, I'm from Indianapolis, so I don't know what PBA stands for exactly.

I'm assuming its like an FOP (Fraternal Order of Police...kind of like a union for police officers) card. Here we have FOP badges tagged to our license plates. Only doners to the FOP or police officers themselves can get these usually.

So if someone has a PBA card or an FOP badge, it usually means they're a relative of a police officer. Do not pass go, do not pay $150.

jimster716

iTrader: (3)

Actually it was 3 different occasions with 4 different officers. All of the officers were white in a city that is estimated to be now 60% asian of which i am one. Racial bias? I can't confirm that but it is widely known that police racial makeup almost always fails to match the community's racial makeup and the Torrance PD is most definitely white (although I love their picture on their official website with men and women of all colors). My college roommate's cousin was TPD and chinese...he lasted a year, he tired of the old school mentality and comments based upon race even if given as jokes. I believe Amnesty International has a report from 1995 delving into police brutality and the correlation with racial makeup of officers.

The advent of civilian review boards to police the police in the last 20 years is also indicative of community's efforts to address the increase in complaints...it is no longer enough to have an Internal Affairs, cops watching cops. The local news recently secretly videotaped civilians' efforts in filing a complaint against officers in several cities in LA County. The tapes were disturbing at best, bordering on interrogation and threats at worst.

Another point of concern is the militarization of police forces around the country...they wear jungle camouflage or black stormtrooper unies in an urban environment. Military thinking in civilian communities, I believe, creates a mismatch in social dealings with the community at large.

In addition, the theory of taking control should be addressed in training...environmental awareness, identification/evaluation of people's behavior, etc. I don't believe snide remarks and accusations based upon assumptions are relevant to taking control of a situation. I remain courteous and respectful with my dealings with anybody and I quickly grow annoyed and humiliated when talked down to in a supposed professional environment.

As mentioned before, my wife has studied and works with law enforcement officers...or should I say counsels their wives. The rate of alcoholism and spousal battery exceed national averages for any profession only outstripped by poverty level income families not in a profession. How could we not expect that someone who takes it out on his wife wouldn't take it out on someone breaking the law in something as simple as a traffic violation? Does the job create alcoholics and batterers? Probably...but law enforcement is not a profession you should be in when over the edge.

This is not to say all cops are bad...I don't believe I've said that they were. But at the same time, I've had enough personal experiences and the suggestions of an increase in the filing of complaints against officers is indicative of a problem especially in racially diverse low income urban areas.

I will say this, my personal experiences with police officers has been enough that I don't extend any respect to them besides the typical greeting and saying "officer" at the end of a sentence. I do not wish to contribute to any fundraising efforts nor engage in any conversation with them. I won't be calling them to my house any time soon unless a burglar has a bullethole from my sig sauer or i'm bleeding to death in which case I would like them to notify my next of kin as i should at least use some of the services my tax dollars offer.

IndySmooth

Good points. However, I think a lot of what you have to say boils down to a racial conflict prevalent in your area throughout the population. I'd guess that it extends past the police force but it comes to light much more emotionally when those with authority abuse their powers to suit their racial biases.

In all aspects, this is wrong. I agree with you whole heartedly. We have a similar situation in Indianapolis with a higher income suburb being accused of racial profiling towards african americans. More than just accusing...they do. Many african americans, people with beat up cars or even anyone with an out of county license plate is usually pulled over if they enter their jurisdiction.

The only way to counteract this is, like you said, using civilian review boards or the local media to point it out. Locally, several news stories have been aired about the problem I mentioned above and I, personally, have seen a change. Of course it isn't anything drastic, but its a step in the right direction.

Militarization - agreed, the swat teams and special response units do take their tactics and even their uniforms from the military. Why? Because the military has some idea of what its doing. What for? Because of incidents like the one in Southern California with the two men in full body armor and fully auotmatic assault rifles robbing a bank. (I can't remember specific dates or events about it, just saw it on the news and read up on it). Why the camo? In this area, there are many wooded areas where a team may need to blend in to position themselves around a target. Black unis would obviously be a bonus at night.

Obviously this does affect the innocent citizens they are there to protect. They get the feeling the police force is a military occupation force. However, I see no alternative. If we want the police to protect us, they have to have enough equipment to combat whatever comes at them, whether its been thought of yet or not.

Regarding the increased rate of alcoholism and spousal abuse, again, you said it yourself. Law enforcement is a job that does a mind job on the officer over time. Even the best officers with the best intentions are at least calloused over time. I defy you or anyone else to make a career out of law enforcement without it getting to you. Its like a doctor separating the body they're working on from the person they're treating. If they don't, the vast majority of doctors would (and do) turn cantankerous over time.

Perhaps the answer is early retirement for officers on the street. Unfortunately, this won't happen. As previously mentioned, they are already under paid and have strict rules on when they're allowed to collect a pension. Say a person with a bachelor's degree spends 10 or 15 years on the street...it eats at them to a point they should no longer be there. Suddenly, they're in their late 30's with no other job experience, a 15 year old degree and no pension whatsoever. Put them behind a desk you say? There are only so many desks. If some sort of forced retirement without pay was instituted, applicant numbers would fall drastically. Who wants to put themselves in that position?

Your philosophy of taking the law into your own hands, while commendable in some ways, is fundamentally flawed. We all depend on law enforcement for our lives to continue on as they do, whether we like it or not.

If you don't think so, spend some time in a country with little or no law enforcement. See how 'great' life is in such a place. I speak for myself and no one else when I say that I'd gladly deal with a few jackass cops than face the alternatives.

This doesn't mean that we shouldn't change what takes place here. If it means so much to you, if you haven't already, I'd suggest you find a way to make an impact on racial relations in your community.

Please don't take my ride-along suggestion lightly, if you haven't already ridden along before. Even if its in a department far from the area you live in. I personally guarantee that one or two ride alongs will completely change your perspective on the topic.

IndySmooth

Before any other posts are made, I wanted to make it extremely clear that no matter what the streets do to an officer, only someone with problems outside of what the job does to them would do something as horrible as beating their spouse or anyone who completely does not deserve anything of the sort.