Dr. Greg

I recently got my '03 CS Track because of a motorcycle crash...I'm a 56-year old sportbike rider (Ducati, Aprilia, Buell Firebolt) who had uh, a little argument with the pavement (not my fault, and don't ask! )

Anyway, not being able to ride until next summer, I had to have a cool vehicle in the meantime, hence the Z.

As I take corners in the Z that I've taken on sportbikes I find myself going about 10% slower in the Z. Now most of this is because I'm a lousy driver (I haven't had a good car since my '65 GT-350 Shelby Mustang), but I find myself thinking "boy, I used to go pretty darn fast around corners on a bike!"

Last spring I dropped a new Corvette while riding my bike on the local "racer road" (and he was a young guy! )

The "car v. bike" debates are endless, but I have a theory: more sportbike riders are capable of riding nearer the limits of their bikes than car drivers are their cars.

Now this forum probably has many very capable drivers who could drop me (on my bike) like a hot potato. No argument there.

But it was illuminating for me to go from bike to car (and back again next summer! )

Any of you have any twisty-road encounters with sportbikes you'd like to relate?

aprez99

I am the exact opposite. I had a 99 CBR 600F4. I sold it this past summer. I don't have any comparisons of how fast I could take a corner on my bike, vs the same corner in my Z. I can tell you that I find it much more fun to take corners in the Z. A couple different times I took turns near full lean and had a small rock force me to alter my line.. Oncoming car in the other lane. Closer than I wanted to be. Scared the CRAP out of me. That thrill of a full throttle straight line launch is something that almost no car can touch though..... There are a lot more things that i like about having the Z, than I did with my bike. Drifting is probably my favorite part of the Z.

ViZion

i'm much faster on my 03 gixxer 600 than i am in my z. but a lot of that stemws from the fact that i've been on this body style gixxer for 1.5 years and i've only had the z for a few months.

however, i think you're statement is pretty close to correct. i think that people are capable of going faster on the bikes in twisties than they are in their cars (reguardless of the cars capabilities)
i wouldn't, however, agree that people are more capable of riding closer to the limits of their bikes. i think that 98% of the average people who own a bike (especially sport bikes) get no where near close to the capabilities of the their bikes. i'm of course not including professional riders in this category.

rplink

The "car v. bike" debates are endless, but I have a theory: more sportbike riders are capable of riding nearer the limits of their bikes than car drivers are their cars.

Dr. Greg,

You basing your conclusion on soley your and perhaps your riding friends level of skill???? I can tell you I've seen my fair share of riders who haven't a clue where the limits of the motorcycles and sometimes more importantly the limits of their skills are!

I've been riding sportbikes for quite a few years myself and I can find the limits of a sports car much quicker than I can on a motorcycle, especially the sportsbikes around now.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've pushed the front on a motocycle, luckily (and I mean luckily) I saved each one of them. Yet I can push the front on my 350z and do a decent job of controlling it as well. For me and I bet alot of others, it's easier to reach and exceeds limits (and walk away from) in my Z than on my sportbike. ('01 929rr)

Interested to hear what others who ride/drive think as well. BTW, you live in a great area to ride, I've ridden the Taos area, CO, TX hillcountry and Ark quite abit and you're in a great area.

ViZion

i think that the average joe (with at least half a brain) can go faster in twisties than the average joe in their car.
now, i also agree that the average joe is much MUCH more likely to get hurt with minor screw-ups than you are in a car. you don't have to balance a car. you've got thousands of pounds of metal protecting you in a car.

moving on, a separate issue i think is how quickly the average person adapts to their bike and car. i think it is a quicker process to truly learn the limits of a car as compaired to a bike. screwing up on a bike is more costly, both physically and finacially. no, i'm not saying that fixing a bike costs more than fixing a car. i am saying that you're more likely to have more (hopefully minor, but more nevertheless) incidents on a bike. which will slow the learning process.

*shrugs* it's a complicated issue with too many factors to really peg the truth.

jedoublery

How is the "Bike vs Car" debate endless?
Is there a debate???

Riding a bike fast will teach you EVERYTHING you'll need to know about driving a car fast. Tire temperature, trailing your rear end into a corner, how to accelerate out of it.....

Colin Edwards, Travis Pastrana, Valentino Rossi ALL DO EVERYWELL in car races (as guest drivers)

I will bet my entire asset (which consist of a Z, a bike and a set of really nice pillows) that none of the F1 or Cart guys can even hang with the pro bike riders on a bike.

rplink

Yep ViZion, it's a complicated situation. But you average sportbike rider is probably faster through the twisties, not because of his skills, but the machine that is under him.

Even newbies who use the point and shoot corner method....corner approaches...brake, dismount, push bike around corner, remount, pin it till next corner, repeat......can get up a twisty road pretty quickly due the acceleration of the bike, not their skills. It ain't pretty, but hey it makes them feel like rockstars so their happy.

ViZion

rplink, yeah, that's what i was saying i agree that the average joe on a bike is faster than the average joe in a car

jedoublery

Even newbies can use the "sit and turn arms" corner method....corner approaches...brake, turn arms, turn arms back, step the gas pedel until the next corner, repeat.....

What is your point? it aint pretty? sitting a in box turning arms is PRETTY?

Average joe will not only go through twisties faster than average joe in a car, it will accelerate, and run faster top end on a bike.

Now replace the average joe rider with average joe driver. Do you think the result will be the same?

Rockstar?

rplink

Man, you totally misunderstood my post.....

My point is that the acceleration of a modern sportsbike plays a huge factor in how quickly a section of twisties can be taken versus a car.

Put rider/driver of the same skill level on/in each vehicle and the sportbike will usually finish first.

So, I'm not really surprised by Dr. Greg's reaction to the difference in cornering speeds he achieved. I'm in the same situation.

jedoublery

My point is that the acceleration of a modern sportsbike plays a huge factor in how quickly a section of twisties can be taken versus a car.
Where is the argument?

DragonZ

Dr. Greg, it is good to see that another Duc rider has similiar tastes.
I still currently own a Duc ('02 748S Titanium Grey) and my Z just came along for the ride. All I have to say is that at least my Z seats two and we are covered when it rains or snows doin a buck10 on the pavement!!

Paul_BB_Guy

I find I push my cars much closer to their limits than my bike. I guess it's the fear factor that keeps me timid on my bike...

ViZion

now keeping this in mind (b/c i think everyone should have your kind of attitude on the street on their bikes) would you say that you are faster in your car?

i think the point here is that even with that mentality (not pushing as close to the limits on your bike) you still go faster on the bike than in the car on twisties. nature of the beast.

ShaftEd

I too am primarily a motorcycle rider. Mostly sportbikes(until recently), but also dirtbikes too. I have done MX and Roadraced in my younger years, so I am completely comfortable on a bike. A few years ago, I broke my leg in a sportbike crash(my fault). I decided that while I wanted to continue to ride, I would hold off on sportbikes for a while. I ended up purchasing a BMW R1150GS. Figured I'd ride it a year, let my leg get stronger and then go back to sportbikes. However, I enjoy the goofy BMW so much I've kept it, and it's what I ride now. Damn thing really works!

Recently I purchased a 350ZR too, just for fun. It's my first sports car and a blast to drive. However, I have taken both my BMW motorcycle and the ZR to the racetrack for trackdays. I am actually 3 seconds faster on my BMW, which isn't really even a sportbike, but does handle quite well. I also ran my RC51 at the same track a few years ago, before my broken leg crash and I was about 10 seconds a lap faster than I drove the ZR.

No doubt about it, I'm a better motorcycle rider than a car driver. I feel my cornering speed to be close from car to bike, but that bikes just jump off the corner so much harder than the car. Down the main straight at "Streets of Willow", even my slow BMW motorcycle is about 10 mph faster than the ZR.

The thing about riding that is screwing up my car driving, is the ridiculously late braking you can do on a car compared to a bike. I keep putting on the brakes too early in the car, but I'm learning that the car can really outbrake the bikes. As I get better and learn the limits, this is where I feel I can make up some time for the better hp to weight ratio of the bikes.

The ZR is tons of fun, but I don't think a sports car could ever really replace bikes in my life. No matter how fast a car is, due to it's size, they just can't get through traffic like a bike can. It's very frustrating always being stuck behind slower traffic in the car and no room to pass.

Good luck with your recovery, and have fun in the Z.

BIGGY

Actually any F1 or Cart car should beat a bike hands down. Bikes are fast...but the fastest bike can be beaten by the fastest car. Doesn't matter if it's drag racing or track racing...bikes are fast, and they don't take much...but put any Formula car against ANY bike and there's not much competition for the car. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise, but sorry.

RedHerring2

The fastest car can beat the fastest bike?

I wouldn't let any of those turbo hayabusa owners hear you.

Eat-Yo-Lunch they will.

I sold my hayabusa because I was way too confident on it and it was just a matter of time before I dropped it like I have dropped every bike I ever owned. Wrecking on a bike HURTS.

I sold my hayabusa, 69 Mach 1, and 2002 Celica and bought the Z.

Oh yeah, I did this mostly because I am expecting twins in april and I want them to know their daddy. They have to be fed can't take the risk any more.

BIGGY

I'm talking about a track...not a drag strip. An F1 car will beat any bike on a track. A turbo Busa is included in that list. Not to mention...a turbo Busa would lose to any 500cc Moto GP bike on the track because there's no way it would be able to handle the turns the way GP's do. Nor would they be able to punch it out of a corner without the rear end coming out with all that HP.

If we're talking straight line racing...then we can take any turbo busa...and run it against a Top Fuel car. So who would win? Forget about that...the turbo busa would lose to the Pro Stock Bike series in any case!

So where does the bike win?

jedoublery

Nobody is talking about which is faster.

we are talking about if the average joe can go faster on a car or bike.

RedHerring2

Its pointless to argue about this. I was just giving props to the hayabusa.

And of course a light cycle can beat anything.