zeroday

and yours was a just a christmas gift to us all. what a joke.

dchengmd

This may be, but this is no proof that he wouldn't have avoided this accident if VDC was on in the first place.

Especially in inclement weather and/or road conditions, why in the world would you want to drive with VDC off anyway? If it's on the car, why not use it?

350inmyfuture

yeah, i got a ticket like that once, i guess it means you should be going under the speed limit, if weather conditions will have an effect on your ability to keep the car safe

Reggi914

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to hear about your car, but why in G-ds name would you take off vdc when the ground was wet???

LBSOHK

im sorry but why everyone is so shocked he drove with his VDC off ? i dont want to sound cocky but first thing i do when i start my car is turn off my VDC , even if it rains ( i dont drive my Z when it snows ) .. i took my time learning to drive my car on a wet pavement , yes on a big *** parking lot , yes i simulated what can be done when my car fish tails, I learned to control my car and i acknowledge the power it has ... and for those who say its hard to loose control of a RWD car on a curve what are you smoking ? you add some wet road and you shift 1 - 2 , and there you go...
sorry to hear you damaged your car...

___DJK___

iTrader: (2)

I dont think anyones "shocked" that he drove with VDC off, but rather unsympathetic to his situation because he did. Sure its possible he could have crashed even with the VDC on, but in all honesty, I seriously doubt that he would have. We werent there so we dont know how hard he really pushed the car or exactly what he did to break traction. The point is that you are safer with VDC on than off generally speaking.

I know VDC is not the magical savior of all cars. Hell, half of all Zs sold probably dont even have it. But if you do have it, it probably doesnt make a whole lot of sense for the average driver to turn it off when driving on the street.

You took your car out to a parking lot to learn how to drive without VDC, congratulations. I sincerely hope you are not the next person to start a thread like this one.

Vlad

sorry to hear about the car.

Cop is a moron and I'd defenetely go to court and show what a moron he is. He has no witnesses to the way you were driving, also he can not know what speed you where driving. Third, you are not requered to be an expert of how slow below the limit you should drive when conditions are bad. You are also not required to be an expert in estimation of how slippery the road was.

Now, to turn that VDC off when it slippery... plain stupid.

K.G

Turning Off VDC on a wet condition road was my mistake
I have never turned the VDC off on wet road before
I even don't understand why I turned it off on that day
I even think I did really stupid thing
and I agree VDC is not a magical saver but if I didn't turn it off
I think I could avoid that accident
My car lost the control with VDC on the wet road or rainy day few times but it regained the control
it was my great lesson and I am very happy about that no one
was injured but I am just angry and sad that I damaged my Z
some said that why would I take my Z to the road???
here in B.C is not that cold in winter and almost no snow in my area
and for the ticket, two cops came and one of them said that
I was doing street racing because air bag came out??
then he gave me that ticket he had no idea what speed I was going and no witness
one little funny thing was the cop asked my gf
"were you sitting in the back or front??"
anyway, I just miss My Z and sorry to her.

daking350

Actually the cop is required to conduct an accident investigation (mostly for insurance companies) and determine the CAUSE of the accident..In this case his DRIVING was the cause that contributed to the accident and the cop can determine that based on the amount of damage which would be relative to speed...The road conditions were less than favorable which would require more care on the part of the motorist at that time(in other words if the speed limit is 30mph and theres wet roads it doesnt mean to drive 30mph)...Also Cops can determine the speed the car was traveling by investigation and measurements..Wll let me rephrase that, they cant tell how fast you WERE going, they can tell how fast you WERE NOT going...Meaning based on the point the car left the road and the distance it traveled to the point of impact and damage caused, they can say in all likelyhood you WERE NOT traveling at 25mph but much faster..kind of sucks huh?

Vlad

I've seen quite a few of those "investigations". Cop is not trained to do estimations of speed from damage. Police have an special experts who can do that, but they were not present on the scene and cop did not consulted with one before making his conclusion. Even those experts sometimes having a hard time determining preaccident speed (I had an experience arguing with one once).

Also the only witnesses were the driver/passenger, and I'm sure they didn't tell cop they were speeding. So cop made his conclusion without any grounds.

As for how far car will travel, i don't beleve cop caried in his car charts to calculate travel/distance/conditions/obstacles equations. Even if those charts do exists... (I honestly don't know, I know there are equations for skidmarks-speed approximation).And since he isn't expert, any lawer will make him eat his hat for making all assumptions hi made writing that ticket...

It's not a legal advice, blablabla.

Vlad

Also some people tend to accelerate instead of braking when panic. So how far will it take car? This will sure screw whatever assumptions cop had in his smart head.

jtree007

What are you talking about.... most of the comments had jsut been insults. The other ones that were not were just monday quarterback comments. Westpark made a statement that related to the post and was able to not make a direct attack on anyone... why is that a joke...


and jsut to add I never drive with VDC on and wish I only had TCS b/c I think it acts way too late and tends to overcompensate as a result

dchengmd

What you think and what actually happens are, thankfully, two very different things. If all you have is anecdotal evidence to prove that VDC on would not have made a difference in this case (as I originally asked for), then you obviously fell short.

In other words, you have no proof that having VDC on versus off would not have made a difference.

PhantomZ

ok now, for the 300 of you who have decided to castize this poor guy about wreckoing his car, and with his gilfriend in the car. Just do everybody a favor, and read the rest of the dam post so that there isn't 20 straight threads that say the EXACT SAME THING. I think it is completely stupid to assume that just because somebody loses traction on a turn that they were driving like an idiot. Especially on a wet road.
Here's a little fact, you do NOT have to be speeding to loose traction on a WET road. I mean, seriousy, Iknow many people (myself included) that can barely keep the tires from breaking loose on a dry road. That's barely touching the accelerator...now on a wet road, just a little blip of the throttle in a STRAIGHT line looses traction. Now on a turn, ven a slight one, n the wet...IT HAPPENS, does that mean that I am stupid, or that I am bad driver?

so, when you feel like lecturing somebody about a situation that you were not even present at, READ first, just to make sure you arent the 20th successive person to say "Never turn off VDC. I never do that, you're so stupid, yada, yada"
DId you ever get off your soapbox long enough to think, "hmm, maybe the poor guy feels bad enough about wrecking his new sports car. I mean, just thinking about his insurance hurts me Thanks

take care

jtree007

O I am not making a commet on if VDC would have helped or not. I was not there so how could I know? Commenting to Zeroday


To your post earlier... I was jsut commenting on that people sould not depend on VDC to save them from their mistakes and any disscomfort they have behind the wheel... Rather they should go to performance driving school become comefortable with the car and continue to learn and improve their driving skills. It annoys me to see everyone to see VDC as an all out savior and something that could excuse a major mistake, a bad judgment call, lack of experence, or lack of skill (not directed at K.G... but jsut noticing a trend on the site.


Also Zeroday... what acura site were you talking about earlier... I use to have a Acura CL Type-S... and that car is more of a Toy then a serious sports car when compared to the Z. Don't get me wrong... It is a fine car.. and I really liked that car but there are major differences in the skill required to handle a RWD car then a FWD in most situations.

sgraham

Love/hate with the lil Z. After having her almost a year that is how I sometimes feel. OK, turn off the VDC but remember that the OEM tires are DEATHTRAPS. Forget that you are on a pogo stick ride until you swap out the shocks (come on Koni, where are they already?). Damp night the other night and I took a reasonably paced left and ended up in a four wheel drift. Reflex caught it cause I'm older and have driven a lot of high performance vehicles but it shouldn't be happening in the first place. The OEM tires suuuuuuck. Summer tires and dry weather only. That is absurd. I'm budgeting $6k for wheel/tire/shock fix in '04.

KornerCarver

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure what to make of the comments in this post. First, I feel bad for the wrecked Z but thankful that no one was hurt. There seem to be several comments in here that rear wheel drive cars are not as safe as front wheel drive cars. I just can't accept that line of reasoning. Until about 20 years ago, virtually all cars were rear wheel drive. When the front wheel drivers started coming out about 1980 their handling characteristics were under debate. Until 1980 about the only front drivers were Mini's, Saabs and Citroens. Also, please note that virtually all high performance cars ever made are rear wheel drive. Ferrari's, Porsches, Maserati's, Aston Martins, Jaguars and Corvettes have always had rear wheel drive because of the better handling characteristics. I think this board must have an awful lot of younger drivers for them to assume that rear wheel drive is not better than front wheel drive. With front wheel drive, the wheels are too busy with too many tasks to do everything correctly. Steering with the front and putting the power through the rear wheels is definitely the better way to go. Do some reading about the Lotus Elan from about 1990 and you will find the main objection to this excellent sports car was it was "front wheel drive" and therefore could not be a "true" sports car. Just my .02 worth................

Les

zurn

I don’t think people meant to imply that RWD are inferior in handling, just that they have different characteristics from FWD cars, and that many drivers, particularly younger drivers may be unused to them.

TheLex

Ok KG, my advice is to at least speak to an attorney. You're in Canada, where the laws are different and most of us here are in the USA. The Canadian Automobile insurance is actually a governmental organization, no? Will they pay for the damage even if the accident is your fault (according to the cop)?

As for what speed the air bags go off, just call the Nissan Zone Representative or ask the service reps at your dealer. I know on my SUV the air bags go off at speeds over 17mph (or something close to that). Does the Z have smart airbags that deploy with differential force depending upon the speed of the impact? It may be important to acscertain this, since the cop automatically based his "you're at fault" statement solely based upon air bag deployment. If you can prove that the threshold is very low, as in below 20 mph, you may have a case, otherwise no.

Finally, just a word of advice. I don't have any idea of you're running stock rubber or not. But most performance tires are designed to work better when the weather is warm. I know for a fact that BC has been very cold this year. And in very cold conditions, those performance tires are worthless. If you intend on performance driving in the cold (anything below say 45 degrees F) I'd consider getting some performance ALL SEASON tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S.

Keep VDC on and keep the shiny side up!

Jason@Performance

iTrader: (11)

OH NO KG!@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its one thing seeing a Z get hurt, but when its one of your good customers!

Oh man I am soo sorry!

I am glad you are ok!

Tonight, it was wet here... I was getting on the interstate, Shifted into 2nd at 20 MPH... then floored it.. All ways fine till about 50MPH where my rear end started going sizeways as I watched the Tech climp as if it was in neutral... that shocked me...